Surprised this hasn't been raised. Maybe I missed it on another thread apologies if I have. I see Colm Parkinson tweeting or x'ing about the cost of Colm O'Rouke at Meath and then Mickey Harte at Louth. Neither county appeared to make any attempt to hide what managers are getting paid.
Harte and team almost €140k
O'Rouke and team just over €76k
Years ago they said of under the table payments that they couldn't even find the table. Well looks like they have found it now.
The volunteer and community ethos well out the window. Would Louth not have benefitted more from investing that €140k into youth football? Instead Harte is away up the road in smoke with it.
Parkinson's tweets
https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1732743230192549930?s=20 (https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1732743230192549930?s=20)
https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1732705818464702778?s=20 (https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1732705818464702778?s=20)
Well Colm had to replace the income from his job as principal and the Sunday Game...
Quote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 10:54:06 AMSurprised this hasn't been raised. Maybe I missed it on another thread apologies if I have. I see Colm Parkinson tweeting or x'ing about the cost of Colm O'Rouke at Meath and then Mickey Harte at Louth. Neither county appeared to make any attempt to hide what managers are getting paid.
Harte and team almost €140k
O'Rouke and team just over €76k
Years ago they said of under the table payments that they couldn't even find the table. Well looks like they have found it now.
The volunteer and community ethos well out the window. Would Louth not have benefitted more from investing that €140k into youth football? Instead Harte is away up the road in smoke with it.
Wasnt there another 300k odd spent on senior team in Meath. You would need to see a breakdown of that to see truly what O Rourke cost and of course that excludes any under the table payments that might be coming from an external sponsor. Same for Harte I imagine.
Quote from: Brendan on December 08, 2023, 11:39:08 AMWell Colm had to replace the income from his job as principal and the Sunday Game...
I'm sure he had a bumper pension to replace a good portion of his salary
Antrims fairly eye watering too
I'm assuming those figures are shared between the entire management team, so Harte/Devlin and who ever else.
Even at that it's 40K+ each. Not bad expenses.
Worst kept secret in GAA is that there's an industry for coaches/managers.
In terms of taxing, I'd assume the cost of trying to implement something or catch someone out would outweigh the amount that could be collected via tax so there's probably no desire from government to do anything.
In the grand scheme of things, there not that many people in the whole country that are getting money like what has been reported (I'd say less that 1K - 32 counties in Football/Hurling so there's a couple of hundred at most then club management).
So while it's against the ethos of the GAA, there's probably never going to be any change to it.
Quote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 10:54:06 AMSurprised this hasn't been raised. Maybe I missed it on another thread apologies if I have. I see Colm Parkinson tweeting or x'ing about the cost of Colm O'Rouke at Meath and then Mickey Harte at Louth. Neither county appeared to make any attempt to hide what managers are getting paid.
Harte and team almost €140k
O'Rouke and team just over €76k
Years ago they said of under the table payments that they couldn't even find the table. Well looks like they have found it now.
The volunteer and community ethos well out the window. Would Louth not have benefitted more from investing that €140k into youth football? Instead Harte is away up the road in smoke with it.
You expect it for free?
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/1205/1420264-galway-spend-close-to-2-5m-on-team-preparation/
This is thread has struck accord - why has this been let slide? The payment of management teams be in county or club teams? Yet the boy on the field and in the gutters this time of year are lucky to get a pair of togs and socks? It is an amateur sport yet the chosen few make a nice wee earner out of the amateur association? What gives?
The things is these salaries are for 6 months of the season, maybe 7. Most of the teams are gone now by June
when do they start training though
Is there any county in the top 2 Divisions that wouldn't be spending 100k on their management team? Not exactly shocked by any of these figures.
Quote from: thebar on December 08, 2023, 01:03:59 PMThis is thread has struck accord - why has this been let slide? The payment of management teams be in county or club teams? Yet the boy on the field and in the gutters this time of year are lucky to get a pair of togs and socks? It is an amateur sport yet the chosen few make a nice wee earner out of the amateur association? What gives?
A collective failure. A culture of wink and a nod, whether it's suspensions or payments. Goes from top to bottom - hundreds of journeymen screwing clubs for payments, more fool every committee that pays them. Absolutely no surprise therefore at county level.
Yea I don't see the big issue to be honest. Seems like a classic case of Irish begrudgement. More power to anything who spends their life in management and gets paid for it when they make it to the top.
If its easy money, away yous go and get your CV built up. Can start with a youth team in your local club and work your way up from there.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 08, 2023, 02:04:07 PMYea I don't see the big issue to be honest. Seems like a classic case of Irish begrudgement. More power to anything who spends their life in management and gets paid for it when they make it to the top.
If its easy money, away yous go and get your CV built up. Can start with a youth team in your local club and work your way up from there.
I doubt many have a problem with it but how are they get it bags of cash or are they paying tax on it the same as the rest of us do on our earnings?
If it's reported surely it's taxed?
Well expenses are usually tax free but I wonder do managers report the free sponsored cars etc and other benefit in kind they get which may be taxable.
Also surely central council and the DG have the right to investigate county finances etc It would be a brave delegate to a county board seeking a breakdown to the costs.
Anecdote I heard before was one county manager is a quantity surveyor and managed to get a contract with the county board for QS services on a redevelopment project which surprisingly wasn't renewed a few weeks after he was let go. Whilst he paid contracts tax he also managed a much more inflated fee to take account of the tax issue and got his regular expenses too.
Quote from: thebar on December 08, 2023, 01:03:59 PMThis is thread has struck accord - why has this been let slide? The payment of management teams be in county or club teams? Yet the boy on the field and in the gutters this time of year are lucky to get a pair of togs and socks? It is an amateur sport yet the chosen few make a nice wee earner out of the amateur association? What gives?
What gives is that players want a totally professional set up and to do that takes serious amount of hours outside of training time. So you would have to be getting paid for it to do it to the level professionals do. The real question is are these lads paying tax and declaring their earnings. I seriously doubt it
Quote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 02:37:44 PMQuote from: thebar on December 08, 2023, 01:03:59 PMThis is thread has struck accord - why has this been let slide? The payment of management teams be in county or club teams? Yet the boy on the field and in the gutters this time of year are lucky to get a pair of togs and socks? It is an amateur sport yet the chosen few make a nice wee earner out of the amateur association? What gives?
What gives is that players want a totally professional set up and to do that takes serious amount of hours outside of training time. So you would have to be getting paid for it to do it to the level professionals do. The real question is are these lads paying tax and declaring their earnings. I seriously doubt it
Are you more worried that they aren't paying taxes or the tax breaks the big companies get in Ireland? Both I'd say.
I would say that they would have to pay tax as there are gurnny cnuts out there that would tout on them lol
Travel expenses from home to place of work are usually not tax-free.
Revenue aren't ones to be messing with, if they catch up with. A motor mechanic from Monaghan topped the tax defaulters list this month. Tax due €712,000, he was charged €446,000 interest and €705,000 penalties.
So income over the period of years might have been €1.4m, and overall tax bill on that income of over €1.8m
Quote from: intheknowhow on December 08, 2023, 12:20:01 PMQuote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 10:54:06 AMSurprised this hasn't been raised. Maybe I missed it on another thread apologies if I have. I see Colm Parkinson tweeting or x'ing about the cost of Colm O'Rouke at Meath and then Mickey Harte at Louth. Neither county appeared to make any attempt to hide what managers are getting paid.
Harte and team almost €140k
O'Rouke and team just over €76k
Years ago they said of under the table payments that they couldn't even find the table. Well looks like they have found it now.
The volunteer and community ethos well out the window. Would Louth not have benefitted more from investing that €140k into youth football? Instead Harte is away up the road in smoke with it.
You expect it for free?
You expect the players to do it for free?
Mad how people actually think tax isn't being paid on income that has been declared on a company's annual accounts.
We're not far away from paying players. Even at the minute some get cushy jobs. This is the thin edge of the wedge. And Harte is at the forefront.
Why would a player bust his balls for nothing when the manager isn't willing to?
Quote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 03:12:25 PMWe're not far away from paying players. Even at the minute some get cushy jobs. This is the thin edge of the wedge. And Harte is at the forefront.
Why would a player bust his balls for nothing when the manager isn't willing to?
Correct, thin end of the wedge, and it will be the ruination of the association. Not begrudging anyone being successful and making money in life, but for me the GAA is throwing it all away by allowing its amateur status to be eroded from within. Ironically it's too amateur to deal with it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 08, 2023, 03:04:57 PMMad how people actually think tax isn't being paid on income that has been declared on a company's annual accounts.
Are they registered companies though?
Quote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 03:12:25 PMWe're not far away from paying players. Even at the minute some get cushy jobs. This is the thin edge of the wedge. And Harte is at the forefront.
Why would a player bust his balls for nothing when the manager isn't willing to?
There you go again about Harte. Hundreds of boys at it but pick one of them.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 08, 2023, 07:07:55 PMQuote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 03:12:25 PMWe're not far away from paying players. Even at the minute some get cushy jobs. This is the thin edge of the wedge. And Harte is at the forefront.
Why would a player bust his balls for nothing when the manager isn't willing to?
There you go again about Harte. Hundreds of boys at it but pick one of them.
Antrim hurlers paid more, footballers was similar to Harte. Mind you there could be more off the books
Maybe if the fans stopped going to the games that would drop the payments?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2023, 07:27:45 PMMaybe if the fans stopped going to the games that would drop the payments?
You would be lucky if more than 500 people would go to an Antrim football league game and the management ticket was over £100k for the year
I've never heard to a GAA manager paying tax on "expenses" from a club or county but I suppose it could be happening somewhere
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 08, 2023, 08:06:12 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2023, 07:27:45 PMMaybe if the fans stopped going to the games that would drop the payments?
You would be lucky if more than 500 people would go to an Antrim football league game and the management ticket was over £100k for the year
I'm sure some committed Antrim supporters, who are not short of a few bob, are happy to help with expenses.
Have you any local names who'll do it for nothing?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 08, 2023, 09:00:50 PMI did smile when it was reported on here the other day that a county manager was giving off about how the dodgy box was sucking much needed funds out of the GAA.
We're through the keyhole at this stage. Pay the players and be done.
Would need to be 'shared' but can't see that happening...
No one should be out of pocket, but the figures are crazy!
I can remember getting my 'phone' (pre mobiles lol) expenses when taking teams, club paid it on Paddys day, expenses were spent in club!
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 08, 2023, 09:15:29 PMThe options are to tackle it and remain true to your amateur values.
Let it slide and drop the amateur status.
Or, continue as we've done for decades - Let it slide and tell lies to everyone that you are an amateur association.
The player thing is coming down the tracks. I know people say it's already here with certain benefits offered or the money in America but it's really coming down the line.
Some day soon a David Clifford type player is going to be offered 6 figures to play for (say) Limerick for a year. He'd be mental not to.
Thats the day the games gone. Although maybe it already is given the Shane Walsh thing
Paying players won't happen. We don't have the population to support more than 4 teams.
It would make a whole re-vamp of player loyalty to Club/County ... Clubs would lose players.
Players would be owned by the County Board and under contract.
Match entry fees would go up significantly.
Big/Wealthier Counties would pay their players more and could afford bigger squads.
Players in the same mould as Shane Walsh would follow the money.
Professionalism would mean more (inter-county) games would be played to bring up gate receipts to cover costs, to satisfy TV deals and to give sponsors more exposure.
Maybe players are getting a few £ under the table as well in some cases?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 08, 2023, 10:05:12 PMMaybe players are getting a few £ under the table as well in some cases?
I remember players getting decent jobs back in the day..
Quote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 03:04:38 PMQuote from: intheknowhow on December 08, 2023, 12:20:01 PMQuote from: trailer on December 08, 2023, 10:54:06 AMSurprised this hasn't been raised. Maybe I missed it on another thread apologies if I have. I see Colm Parkinson tweeting or x'ing about the cost of Colm O'Rouke at Meath and then Mickey Harte at Louth. Neither county appeared to make any attempt to hide what managers are getting paid.
Harte and team almost €140k
O'Rouke and team just over €76k
Years ago they said of under the table payments that they couldn't even find the table. Well looks like they have found it now.
The volunteer and community ethos well out the window. Would Louth not have benefitted more from investing that €140k into youth football? Instead Harte is away up the road in smoke with it.
You expect it for free?
You expect the players to do it for free?
They are paid the expenses rate.
You want a manager not to care and rock up 10 mins before training ? Tell them to run laps?
Could a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
No
Quote from: Eire90 on December 08, 2023, 10:53:19 PMCould a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
You'd end up with half of them in Dublin.
You'd kill the game in so many rural communities too. A lot of clubs are struggling to get numbers as it is without every time you produce a good player, a big club or franchise take them off your hands. Why would you even try at that point?
Quote from: Eire90 on December 08, 2023, 10:53:19 PMCould a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
If spectator levels at the Railway Cup, Sigerson Cup and Combined Rules have taught us anything, it's that people don't go Gaelic Games to watch players. They go watch teams they're emotionally attached to.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 09, 2023, 08:18:47 AMQuote from: Eire90 on December 08, 2023, 10:53:19 PMCould a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
If spectator levels at the Railway Cup, Sigerson Cup and Combined Rules have taught us anything, it's that people don't go Gaelic Games to watch players. They go watch teams they're emotionally attached to.
I still think the Railway Cup was a great competition. Just couldn't get the right calendar slot for it.
A great opportunity for young fans to see the best players, in both codes, of the day.
Love to see it back again and moved about different towns every year. Not feasible nowadays unfortunately.
Quote from: marty34 on December 09, 2023, 08:29:16 AMQuote from: thewobbler on December 09, 2023, 08:18:47 AMQuote from: Eire90 on December 08, 2023, 10:53:19 PMCould a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
If spectator levels at the Railway Cup, Sigerson Cup and Combined Rules have taught us anything, it's that people don't go Gaelic Games to watch players. They go watch teams they're emotionally attached to.
I still think the Railway Cup was a great competition. Just couldn't get the right calendar slot for it.
A great opportunity for young fans to see the best players, in both codes, of the day.
Love to see it back again and moved about different towns every year. Not feasible nowadays unfortunately.
Everyone recognises that the Sigerson is a great competition. It's top-class competitive football. Only the AI SFC would outrank it in that regard.
But you still could fit the attendances at most matches into an Ulsterbus.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 09, 2023, 08:42:11 AMQuote from: marty34 on December 09, 2023, 08:29:16 AMQuote from: thewobbler on December 09, 2023, 08:18:47 AMQuote from: Eire90 on December 08, 2023, 10:53:19 PMCould a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
If spectator levels at the Railway Cup, Sigerson Cup and Combined Rules have taught us anything, it's that people don't go Gaelic Games to watch players. They go watch teams they're emotionally attached to.
I still think the Railway Cup was a great competition. Just couldn't get the right calendar slot for it.
A great opportunity for young fans to see the best players, in both codes, of the day.
Love to see it back again and moved about different towns every year. Not feasible nowadays unfortunately.
Everyone recognises that the Sigerson is a great competition. It's top-class competitive football. Only the AI SFC would outrank it in that regard.
But you still could fit the attendances at most matches into an Ulsterbus.
Fair enough but I wouldn't rate the Sigerson thst highly. In reality it's an U21 competition for people at uni.
I suppose the growth of the club scene has taken over now with the three levels: junior, intermediate and senior which caters for everyone.
Sigerson is great for young lads with a sporting talent maybe not academic get into Unis that in years gone by they could only dream about.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 09, 2023, 08:18:47 AMQuote from: Eire90 on December 08, 2023, 10:53:19 PMCould a gaa franchise league be succesful say beetween 8 and 10 teams
If spectator levels at the Railway Cup, Sigerson Cup and Combined Rules have taught us anything, it's that people don't go Gaelic Games to watch players. They go watch teams they're emotionally attached to.
This is exactly right. People go for their local club/county. If Darragh Canavan moved to another county I'd forget about him overnight.
There is a very simple solution to the mercenary manager's but the GAA have to many involved in the cash cow merry go round and with self interests to consider it.
A rule were club manager's must be appointed from within the club and county managers from with the county. If a club has a genuine reason why they can appoint from within the must get approval from the county board and similar if a county cant appoint from within the need approval from central council.
Then if outside trainers, fitness coaches etc are added to the ticket the club must stamp there card's as employee's.
This wont completely eradicate it at county level when you see O Rourke's fees, but will definitely help at club level and might also lead to getting the club game back to were it was intended to be as a hobby and not a chore driven by lunatics who come up with mad ideas to bolster there CV for the next gig.
Quote from: pbat on December 09, 2023, 11:57:23 AMThere is a very simple solution to the mercenary manager's but the GAA have to many involved in the cash cow merry go round and with self interests to consider it.
A rule were club manager's must be appointed from within the club and county managers from with the county. If a club has a genuine reason why they can appoint from within the must get approval from the county board and similar if a county cant appoint from within the need approval from central council.
Then if outside trainers, fitness coaches etc are added to the ticket the club must stamp there card's as employee's.
This wont completely eradicate it at county level when you see O Rourke's fees, but will definitely help at club level and might also lead to getting the club game back to were it was intended to be as a hobby and not a chore driven by lunatics who come up with mad ideas to bolster there CV for the next gig.
You can not be serious...
Eventually there'll be a test case that will shake things up. Some high-profile manager with various other debatable business interests will be investigated thoroughly.
I would reckon in such a test case, that the GAA club / county involved might get a slap in the wrists, especially if it's not in their accounts - but the burden of paying (repaying) income tax will fall on the individual.
And that's why these payments are starting to appear in financial accounts. Managers are being assigned as freelance consultants, and their choice to pay taxes is no different to that of a physio.
Problem for the GAA is that when this (and it will) all comes tumbling down, the cost of hiring managers and selectors is going to go up 30-30% overnight. As the buggers will still expect the same take home pay.
I would have thought they're all (bar the stupid ones) paying tax on income beyond expenses.
Not sure how anyone thinks they would know about it if that was the case.
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 09, 2023, 01:29:34 PMI would have thought they're all (bar the stupid ones) paying tax on income beyond expenses.
Not sure how anyone thinks they would know about it if that was the case.
Why would someone pay tax on a wage that doesn't exist? ie if there's no record of a payment being made... then how could you go about paying tax on it?
Precisely!
Of course it exists - ffs most get it through a DD. Those people surely declare the income in their return.
Duffleking how do you qualify "most" in that musing?
My own club, club next door and a handful of coaches I know operate in that way.
Coaches declare additional income after the expense of doing the job and pay tax on it.
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 09, 2023, 01:48:02 PMMy own club, club next door and a handful of coaches I know operate in that way.
Coaches declare additional income after the expense of doing the job and pay tax on it.
Which is a small sample size to be fair.
FWIW I'm aware of clubs that pay by DD and who declare every last penny spent on senior football mgt.
I'm also aware of clubs that pay cash in hand, and they balance the books by not declaring income from various sources.
I'm also aware of clubs in which management are paid directly by sponsors. The money never enters or leaves the club, so has no reason to appear in accounts.
I don't of course know how this extrapolates into behaviour across Ireland. But I know enough to raise a bloody big eyebrow at your assertions that most GAA managers pay income tax on their "wages".
So is this a tax issue or the fact that clubs/counties pay managers?
This has been happening well over 50 odd years, putting a lid on that will prove to be very difficult
I've absolutely no problems with a sponsor putting his hands in his own pockets and funding his club or county, and people getting their knickers in a twist for someone not paying some tax while the government do feck all on global corporates
I do have an issue when a club sources it through their own resources as that money could be spent elsewhere for all of the club to benefit
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 10, 2023, 09:43:16 AMSurely the investment from the sponsors could be used across the whole club?
Where do you stand with a sponsor giving the club's best player £30k to keep him from going travelling?
Or a sponsor giving a good player from another county a house and a salary to come and play for his club?
It's his money, he can do what he wants with it, I'd prefer it's spent on the infrastructure of the club, changing rooms, stands, paid coach across all the teams.
Not for me to tell someone how to spend their own money though