A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[Franko]

I think we need an official response from sid on these latest allegations   

[dublin7]

Just because SF want a border poll ASAP it doesn't mean it's going to happen anytime soon. In case you hadn't noticed the UK/Irish governments have other priorities to be dealing with that are actually happening now.

Where did I say it would/should happen just because it's what SF want? The reason it will happen, and happen relatively soon, is because all the trends point to it. The Catholic (mostly nationalist) population is younger and growing more rapidly than the Protestant (mostly unionist) population, opinion polls have been showing a steady climb in support for reunification and at the last assembly election, unionism lost it's majority for the first time since partition. So a border poll will happen DESPITE the Irish Government, not because of it. The point is, they need to waken up to that reality and start planning. This in a state that was gerrymandered to ensure they could hold a permanent majority. Brexit has already resulted in what some are calling an "economic united Ireland". Things are already moving inexorably in one direction. To not plan for such constitutional upheaval is gross negligence.

The issues with Brexit are not due to a lack of groundwork but Boris/Arlene breaking agreements that had been agreed with the EU.

So you think people DID know what they were voting for with Brexit? Are you for real?

The sensible approach would be to wait until such a poll has a high chance of passing before calling it. All calling one now would achieve is a bitter campaign between 2 deeply divided parties in SF & DUP that will only cause further division in the North.

And as I have now repeatedly said, SF's call is not for a border poll to be held tomorrow, but for the contingency planning to begin today. That IS a sensible approach. The outright refusal of the Irish government to prepare for one is not sensible.

If the Irish government were to announce tomorrow they were starting to plan for a united Ireland and demanding a border poll it would only cause more tension/problems. The Irish government are the sensible ones unlike SF demanding the poll be called. IF SF want a poll to pass they need to bring the DUP/unionists with them and not force them into something they don't want and are not going to vote for

[bennydorano]

That's the trouble with trying to maintain a Paul Kimmage type black & white moral outlook on life. If you're a fraud you can't maintain it as Ewan McKenna is finding out.

[Angelo]

Just because SF want a border poll ASAP it doesn't mean it's going to happen anytime soon. In case you hadn't noticed the UK/Irish governments have other priorities to be dealing with that are actually happening now.

Where did I say it would/should happen just because it's what SF want? The reason it will happen, and happen relatively soon, is because all the trends point to it. The Catholic (mostly nationalist) population is younger and growing more rapidly than the Protestant (mostly unionist) population, opinion polls have been showing a steady climb in support for reunification and at the last assembly election, unionism lost it's majority for the first time since partition. So a border poll will happen DESPITE the Irish Government, not because of it. The point is, they need to waken up to that reality and start planning. This in a state that was gerrymandered to ensure they could hold a permanent majority. Brexit has already resulted in what some are calling an "economic united Ireland". Things are already moving inexorably in one direction. To not plan for such constitutional upheaval is gross negligence.

The issues with Brexit are not due to a lack of groundwork but Boris/Arlene breaking agreements that had been agreed with the EU.

So you think people DID know what they were voting for with Brexit? Are you for real?

The sensible approach would be to wait until such a poll has a high chance of passing before calling it. All calling one now would achieve is a bitter campaign between 2 deeply divided parties in SF & DUP that will only cause further division in the North.

And as I have now repeatedly said, SF's call is not for a border poll to be held tomorrow, but for the contingency planning to begin today. That IS a sensible approach. The outright refusal of the Irish government to prepare for one is not sensible.

If the Irish government were to announce tomorrow they were starting to plan for a united Ireland and demanding a border poll it would only cause more tension/problems. The Irish government are the sensible ones unlike SF demanding the poll be called. IF SF want a poll to pass they need to bring the DUP/unionists with them and not force them into something they don't want and are not going to vote for

A post completely and utterly factually wrong with most spurious of representations.

Are you in anyway able to expand or substantiate anything you said there?

[sid waddell]

That's the trouble with trying to maintain a Paul Kimmage type black & white moral outlook on life. If you're a fraud you can't maintain it as Ewan McKenna is finding out.

But it's the Shinners here who do that

And it hasn't gone well for yis

Just look at how yis reacted when yis tried to get all moral over Varadkar

Yis lost the plot completely when your hypocrisy was pointed out, and made fools of yerselves

Fraud is the operative word

That is what Sinn Fein is

[Angelo]

That's the trouble with trying to maintain a Paul Kimmage type black & white moral outlook on life. If you're a fraud you can't maintain it as Ewan McKenna is finding out.

It's about being able to show tolerance.

Some things you may agree with some you don't.

But as we have seen with Sidney, when he disagrees with someone or something he tries to polarise matters.

His posts are there for all to judge. An Eoghan Harris type transformation, a man who is happy to rewrite history but not willing to examine his own past beliefs or opinions.

[Snapchap]

If the Irish government were to announce tomorrow they were starting to plan for a united Ireland and demanding a border poll it would only cause more tension/problems.

Cause more problems and tensions? Are you for real? You are really failing to grasp the fact that there is going to be a border poll and it will be relatively soon. Are you suggesting the Irish government would be better just sleepwalking into it and not being prepared for it's outcome, than to actually be prepared?

The Irish government are the sensible ones unlike SF demanding the poll be called.

Again, SF are demanding that the planning start. They are not calling for a poll to be held tomorrow. You've had this pointed out to you numerous times, so drop the straw man argument.

IF SF want a poll to pass they need to bring the DUP/unionists with them and not force them into something they don't want and are not going to vote for

What claptrap. If SF want a polll to pass, they need to bring 50%+1 with them. It's right there in black and white in the GFA. There is absolutely no requirement for a majority of the DUP/unionists to support it. By definition, that can't even happen. When a majority of people vote for reunification, then reunification it is. The days of a unionist veto are over. And if a slim nationalist majority want unity, then you, as a democrat will surely support it? You wouldn't want to "force them into something they don't want" by insisting their wishes be ignored because unionism doesn't like it?

That's the square your position seems unable to circle in your frantic opposition to argue against a border poll. You want unionists to be engaged in a debate about it, yet when it's suggested the Irish government do that very thing, you deem that unacceptable incase it upsets said unionists.

[Angelo]

No point trying to talk logic and reason to Sid. You can try to explain to him all day about why many ordinary people, living through extraordinary times, felt the IRA campaign was justified. I tried before to have that adult conversation with him and to explain why I felt it was justified. He ignored everything I said and accused me of supporting it because I'm "into dead children" and because I like to see "children blown up". In fact, his "into dead children" bit was his first engagement with me after I offered him my condolences and prayers on the loss of his father.

That's the mentality of who you're trying to engage with. A sick f**k who repeatedly envokes the concept of child suffering and death to attack others on a discussion board. He even recently randomly claimed that another poster accused him of "child rape" ffs. Do not waste your time or energy with that sort of individual.

Personally I think it's long past time for a banning for Snapchap

He makes no effort at all at reasonable discussion and just personally abuses me while inverting reality to claim he is a victim

Like seriously, what sort of person tries to airbrush the suffering of children from history

Inflicting suffering and death on children was an integral part of the PIRA campaign

He uses the words "sick f**k", apparently with zero sense of irony or self awareness

Goebbels couldn't have done any better than that

It's frustrating when a poster behaves in this ultra-narcissistic manner

Whoooooppssss 

[sid waddell]

I wouldn't have much time for Eilis O'Hanlon as a writer

But maybe she was correct in some of what she said

Certainly the Shinnerbots on this forum seem very intent on proving her right

[Angelo]

I wouldn't have much time for Eilis O'Hanlon as a writer

But maybe she was correct in some of what she said

Certainly the Shinnerbots on this forum seem very intent on proving her right

Nice to see you aligning yourself with the far right in true Eoghan Harris fashion. 

[sid waddell]

I wouldn't have much time for Eilis O'Hanlon as a writer

But maybe she was correct in some of what she said

Certainly the Shinnerbots on this forum seem very intent on proving her right

Nice to see you aligning yourself with the far right in true Eoghan Harris fashion. 

Pointing out that somebody you disagree with on most things may be right on some things isn't "aligning yourself with the far right"

It's displaying an ability to think

Neither is Eilis O'Hanlon far right

You certainly are though

[Angelo]

I wouldn't have much time for Eilis O'Hanlon as a writer

But maybe she was correct in some of what she said

Certainly the Shinnerbots on this forum seem very intent on proving her right

Nice to see you aligning yourself with the far right in true Eoghan Harris fashion. 

Pointing out that somebody you disagree with on most things may be right on some things isn't "aligning yourself with the far right"

It's displaying an ability to think

Neither is Eilis O'Hanlon far right

You certainly are though

Your credibility is shot. How can any poster attach any sincerity to all your shrieking and virtue signalling when you are villanising people who share the same views you once shouted out proudly?

Smile Sidney, you're on camera. 

[dublin7]

If the Irish government were to announce tomorrow they were starting to plan for a united Ireland and demanding a border poll it would only cause more tension/problems.

Cause more problems and tensions? Are you for real? You are really failing to grasp the fact that there is going to be a border poll and it will be relatively soon. Are you suggesting the Irish government would be better just sleepwalking into it and not being prepared for it's outcome, than to actually be prepared?

The Irish government are the sensible ones unlike SF demanding the poll be called.

Again, SF are demanding that the planning start. They are not calling for a poll to be held tomorrow. You've had this pointed out to you numerous times, so drop the straw man argument.

IF SF want a poll to pass they need to bring the DUP/unionists with them and not force them into something they don't want and are not going to vote for

What claptrap. If SF want a polll to pass, they need to bring 50%+1 with them. It's right there in black and white in the GFA. There is absolutely no requirement for a majority of the DUP/unionists to support it. By definition, that can't even happen. When a majority of people vote for reunification, then reunification it is. The days of a unionist veto are over. And if a slim nationalist majority want unity, then you, as a democrat will surely support it? You wouldn't want to "force them into something they don't want" by insisting their wishes be ignored because unionism doesn't like it?

That's the square your position seems unable to circle in your frantic opposition to argue against a border poll. You want unionists to be engaged in a debate about it, yet when it's suggested the Irish government do that very thing, you deem that unacceptable incase it upsets said unionists.

You really think it's that simple? 50.000000001% votes for a united Ireland and everything is settled? I don't see how anything can be settled unless both sides are happy with the deal. Its this nonsense from SF/DUP who both think that the other should do what they want that has the NI assembly in such a mess and anything but a well run functioning government. 

[sid waddell]

I wouldn't have much time for Eilis O'Hanlon as a writer

But maybe she was correct in some of what she said

Certainly the Shinnerbots on this forum seem very intent on proving her right

Nice to see you aligning yourself with the far right in true Eoghan Harris fashion. 

Pointing out that somebody you disagree with on most things may be right on some things isn't "aligning yourself with the far right"

It's displaying an ability to think

Neither is Eilis O'Hanlon far right

You certainly are though

Your credibility is shot. How can any poster attach any sincerity to all your shrieking and virtue signalling when you are villanising people who share the same views you once shouted out proudly?

Smile Sidney, you're on camera. 

But sure I've never hid that I used to support Sinn Fein, I've openly stated here several times that I voted for them in 2011 and 2016, and have no intention of ever voting for them again

The reason I did that is because unlike you, I have an ability to think and develop my opinions, and to change them where I think it's necessary

Pretty much everybody has previously held opinions that they now disagree with - anybody with a functioning brain, at any rate

You've absolutely no answer when I or anybody else engages you here so you're understandably totally desperate to do anything to deflect from that

[johnnycool]

Sid,
    There's changing your mind and then there's total amnesia or you've been hit by lightening on the road to damascus dalkey..