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Messages - twohands!!!

Game on the HE YouTube channel tonight - throw-in at 7:30

The Division 1 final between UU and UCG is on tomorrow at 8
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club SFC 2023
November 28, 2023, 03:53:04 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on November 28, 2023, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: Gold on November 28, 2023, 11:11:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2023, 10:46:06 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 27, 2023, 10:21:34 AMUnfortunately I didnt get to see the Trillick v Scotstown match but by all accounts it was a very good game.
I had a feeling Trillick would win it and had the potential to win Ulster under the radar, but not to be.

Glen probably deserved to win the first SF, that point at the end to win it was worth it alone.
I still think they are not playing as well as last year, but perhaps that will come yet. Glass has been underwhelming, but that's not to say he's playing badly, just doesn't seem to be hitting the same highs as last year.
I dont think that was a penalty tbh, and had it not been given Glen probably ran out comfortable enough winners. Hurson had a reasonably good game, though I though he was a little harsh on Glen in general, but for me he got the penalty wrong.

Glen and Scotstown will be an interesting game. Glen perhaps slight favourites, but not much between them. Scotstown keeper play could be the difference in the two teams.
Wattys may be pacing themselves. It's tournament football. They want to be ready for the final. They know how it works.


Although if the Glenties man held that last kick out and didnt cough it up to Glass (and then the winning point went over 5 secs later) it could be they in the final, not Glen.

Glen 'could' say get a few goals, get a run on Scotstown and win by 10. We'd all then be saying how they'd done well managing the earlier rounds and timed their peak at the right time. Scotstown could also get a run on Glen. It's Sport and over analysed. I remember a line ball in a game given the wrong way in a semi final that changed the game. There's so little in it.

In saying all that though Kilmacud are simply the team to beat. With the refs giving them penalties for fouls well outside the box when things get tight i Cant see them being stopped unless by a lucky drop in mad goal again or something like a few years ago

Never got this idea how teams could pace themselves for certain matches.  As you say, they could have been easily beat.  They hardly 'paced' themselves to come through by a point.  Some teams do however kick on and get that momentum after a couple of matches.

Yeah - unless there is a massive gap in standards with the opposition (which you're very unlikely to get in most provincial games) I think an entire team trying to pace over a course of games is extremely difficult, if not impossible.
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
November 28, 2023, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2023, 01:52:07 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 28, 2023, 01:39:55 PM
Quote from: smort on November 28, 2023, 12:50:55 PMJust start the season a bit later and let county players play more football with their clubs
What do the club players do for most of the year then? Are we really trying to cram club leagues and Championships from late July onwards?

The idea that club players should only play as much as county players are available is madness. There must be some form of competition not involving county players

I'd imagine it's the case that in 80% plus of all counties there is no link between league and championship, and county league can be run-off without the county players. If county players do become available (say lads returning from injury/lads outside the gameday 26 in need of some game time), it's no big deal if they do take part in a league game or two because the league position doesn't affect championship in any way.

I really can't understand from a scheduling/practicality point of view given the split-season is in place why any county would retain the link between league and championship.

Quote from: blasmere on November 28, 2023, 09:20:34 AM
Quote from: didlyi on November 25, 2023, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 25, 2023, 12:09:24 PM
Quote from: didlyi on November 24, 2023, 09:33:42 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 23, 2023, 10:44:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2023, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 22, 2023, 11:20:57 AMI must say I find it hilarious when hurling people get on their high horse about the state of hurling in Cavan and Fermanagh.

In Cork, Kilkenny, Limerick, Tipperary football has been treated like sh*t for years. Kilkenny don't even pretend to bother any more.

So I'll listen to arguments about what needs to be done for Cavan hurling when those counties treat football equally.

Did Tipp not play in an All Ireland semi final recently? Cork have won the All Ireland a good few times, Kilkenny compete in the lower end of football Junior I think, and have won it a few times, as for Limerick, they always had a decent team, maybe Waterford and Antrim would have been a better example of underperforming or underfunding ..

These things I wouldn't find hilarious, but each to their own

"Kilkenny compete in the Junior"..😂😂😂 Well - you really disproved my argument, I surrender.
In case you're not aware, that competition is for native born Americans and English players and is played semi-final/final on same weekend like some Féile blitz. That's the level of effort Kilkenny are putting into football. What about club football in Kilkenny? How is that organised pray tell?

I've lived in Tipperary and Cork. Both county boards completely dominated by hurling heads. Officials and coaches in both counties actively discourage dual players playing football. That's quite well known.

There are hardcore football clubs and people in both counties, especially in West Cork which is a heartland of football but the board has treated them like shit to varying degrees over the years. Cork should be a dominant football county but aren't. Why? I could fill a book with stories.
A few years ago at one state the Senior hurlers were training in a college gym in Cork city, paid for by board - while the footballers were forced to rent a warehouse in Fermoy and kit it out themselves. Look up how far Fermoy is from Castlehaven, Bantry or Rosscarbery where footballers were travelling from.
As soon as any talented dual player enters a Cork squad system they are told giving up football is one of the keys to progressing. The large traditional hurling Clubs like Midleton, Sars, Blackrock, Glen Rovers, Na Piarsaigh treat football with absolute spite. The irony being that the one true dual city club who don't - St Finbarrs - excel in both codes because of it.

So to be perfectly honest laughter is all I offer when I hear hurling heads bleating about Leitrim or Cavan hurling. If Hurling snobs ran the GAA and got their wish, football would be banned.
Hurling is a good sport and anyone who wants to play it should be given the opportunity to do so but what hurling people don't seem to get or want to admit though is that
north of the Dublin-Galway line - as Martin Fogarty outlined in many interviews since quitting his role with GAA - there is very little interest in hurling. Hurling is strong in the rich farming counties mainly. There are well documented historical reasons for this.

Not sure how you can draw a comparison between Tipp and Cork and Cavan and Louth. Tipp and Cork like most of the hurling counties have a healthy respect for football and the numbers participating is testament to that. Just because its not the holy grail as it is in Kerry should be no reason to have a cut at them. We all know the same is not true of Cavan and Louth where hurling is almost non existent. Maybe its just a Kerry thing, hurling somehow undermines their superiority complex.

The bolded bit is absolute nonsense. I've lived in Cork for a long time and been involved in GAA at club level.
As I outlined in previous posts, Football is looked on with disdain by the hurling dominated board in Cork (and Tipp) and any meagre success is in spite of this and down to a handful of hardcore football people largely from West or Northwest of Cork or other isolated pockets like Nemo Rangers in the city.

Anyone prepared to discuss how football is treated in Kilkenny? I won't hold my breath.
I wont disagree with you but honestly is their respect for football any worse than Kerrys respect for hurling?

You mentioned Kilkenny, appreciate only in relation to the other post, but that's why I mentioned it, there is literally no comparison between the two in this instance, maybe other football dominant counties with teams at the very bottom of the hurling levels, even though I appreciate that there's hurling mad people in those counties, they maybe don't get the backing they should, certainly not by the GAA, judging by the recent proposal.

Yeah with very little inside knowledge of how hurling is treated in Kerry - Kerry are a fairly well-established top-half intercounty hurling county and would seem to have a healthy club hurling scene with hurling seeming to growing (albeit slowly) in the county from what I've read/heard.  Obviously hurling would be 2nd in terms of priorities but I would have said no real comparison with how Kilkenny treat football.
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club SFC 2023
November 26, 2023, 04:01:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 26, 2023, 03:54:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 26, 2023, 02:47:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 26, 2023, 02:46:11 PM
Quote from: Main Street on November 26, 2023, 02:44:15 PMLate tackle on K Hughes, no free?

He was low to the ground, was the barely contact and to be fair he hasn't given many easy frees
Both players looked genuinely poleaxed.
Who got the yellow card then?

Clear free. Late tackle.

He gave the Trillick lad a yelliw card.

Not sure why he didn't award the free.

I was thinking he possibly deemed it as a tackle after the ball was gone. I'd have given a free myself.
A lot of the time refs are reluctant to give frees when a player has been fouled but managed to get a good unimpeded shot away (as in this case)
Some weird GAA version of Double Jeopardy.

Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on November 25, 2023, 10:51:45 AMThey wouldn't have pulled the plug. Legally the Ulster Council wouldn't have been able to proceed with them as the main contractor due to the massive increase in cost. There are strict regulations on procurement where public money is involved to ensure it's spent correctly. They would have signed a contract 10+ years ago at the cost of £70m. As the new cost is now more than 150% that contract can't legally be modified to suit the existing contractor.

Given the Ulster Council are the ones going to be signing the contract, I wonder what assurances/promises they have in place from the other bodies (specifically the UK government) who are providing funds, especially as regards going over budget and/or delays.
GAA Discussion / Re: Assaults at GAA games
November 14, 2023, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: GTP on November 14, 2023, 09:40:47 AMI'm not sure the GAA could take disciplinary action against individuals recording individual segments of matches such as scores or brawls even if there is a rule against it. People will post these videos as others will comment on them as can be seen from the reaction on this message board. In the incident recorded at least the adults and mentors entering the field of play appear to be making a genuine attempt to break up the fighting and restore order rather than getting involved. Unsavoury, lots of pushing and shoving, but would there be any more than 4 players who could be said to have struck someone.
Conor McKenna was sent off as third man in against Fermanagh so rule is or was on place. As Sky Sports say - The Eglish clubman was the third man into a melee, and referee Joe McQuillan gave him his marching orders
Hard for any referee to take proper action in these cases as so much going on maybe went for the standard red card for each team (or maybe even yellow)

I think there is a provision for disciplining members in the code of conduct under the "bringing the GAA into disrepute" but I think practically it would be extremely difficult.

"To contribute to a melee" is a Category 3 infraction (a red card offence)
This is what is usually used by refs if they want to give a red card to the third man in.
There is no reference to it being specifically "the third man in" anywhere in the rule book.
However like so many GAA rules this is so badly written as being close to meaningless.
Nowhere in the rule book is either a melee defined or how much you need to contribute to it, to be committing an offence.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 13, 2023, 09:40:26 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 09:30:15 PMCasement should only be used if a near capacity crowd is expected, or at least 20,000 and up.

I've been waiting on this....

Indeed. Surely the likes of weareros can't be that stupid they dont realise the ulster council are going to try and fit everything they can think of into casement to try and justify it.

Scotstown vs. Trillick for instance? If Casement were built that's probably where it'd be.

Well... I suppose they are insisting on a relatively high maintenance cost millstone around the neck of the Gaa to little net benefit... So maybe they are that stupid.

Cork GAA have definitely gotten criticism recently for putting on club games in PuC that don't make sense in terms of dragging both clubs long distance from the same direction.
I'd say if Ulster GAA got a record of the number of games held at PuC since it opened and the attendances espcially for club games they would be a lot more prudent in terms of the whole Casement project.

Ulster GAA will no doubt be doing the same with the Ulster club championships - they will be dragging teams from all over Ulster up to Casement every chance they can.

In terms of big GAA games suddenly being played in Casement - the exact same stuff was said about PuC pretty much word-for-word. Since it's opened it's got pretty much close to S.F.A in terms of "extra" GAA games compared to what it would have hosted if the most minimal rennovations had been done. The two hurling quarter-finals the year it opened are pretty much the only "extra" GAA games it got. This was despite pretty much putting Cork GAA in examinership. Ulster GAA are deluded if they think Croke Park is going to hand over any significant games it doesn't have to, especially given how much money the corporate boxes bring in the Croke Park.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:55:54 AMAre you being serious? Belfast is 1.30 from Dublin. 2 hours from deep in Donegal.. 2.45 from Galway 4 hours from Cork.... How big do you think Ireland is?

If Casement is built it'll get games, as it will be the best stadium outside of Croke.

People go to Croke from all over the island..there are plenty counties further away to Dublin than Belfast

Something else to add to the long list of things said about both Pairc ui Chaoimh and Casement before work started there.
The lads in Cork had visions of all sorts of big intercounty games being played there.
The current state of play in Cork is that the Munster Council is hesitant to put on a fair few pairings of games there because they know that ticket sales are lower there than for other venues in Munster.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 09, 2023, 01:02:53 PMPairc UI chaoimh main stand is impressive. Still to this day don't understand why they knocked down the old end terraces to replace them with almost identical structures ffs. Such a wasted opportunity

Pretty sure that when works started they found those were in danger of collapsing. I think that's why they were use replaced with identical structures.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:03:31 AMYeah they are not blameless and that was a disgrace which was thankfully rectified. I'm just sure they are as high up the blame pecking as ulster gaa.

Plenty blame to go around on all sides.

The big issue for me at the moment is that it seems absolutely nothing was learned from the Pairc Ui Chaoimh disaster.

I wonder did anyone involved in the Casement project get in touch with anyone who was involved in the Cork car crash for advice/info on things they would have done differently/pitfalls. Although knowing some of the key players involved in the Cork farrago, they're still probably claiming no mistakes were made and anything that did go wrong was all someone elses fault. Even a meeting or two with the the lads brought in from Croke Park to do clean-up on Cork would surely be massively beneficial.
Quote from: illdecide on November 01, 2023, 04:49:10 PMCorrect, they have done their case studies and are confident that corporate events, meetings, concerts etc will sustain the stadium not to mention jobs for some locals (who want a job) and the economy. Ohh and the most important thing is the games in the stadium...Get that 40N Concrete ready

I heard the exact same thing about Pairc Ui Chaoimh from Cork People.
Then it came out when the EU went looking into it because it was getting government money that there was no business plan whatsoever.

Even if Ulster GAA do have a business plan lying around,  I'd be pretty sure it was just a case of creating one after they had already decided to go ahead and build, as opposed to doing a proper one which would be looking at the situation and seeing if the numbers add up beforehand and being willing to abandon the project if they don't.

I wouldn't be surprised if the sort of thing that happened to Cork's finances happens to Ulster GAA once the stadium is complete as happened to Cork - higher costs to finish the stadium then higher operating costs than expected followed by lower revenues than expected leading to other areas being cut-to the bone. Stormont,The Dail and Croke Park will all say we gave a pile of money for the stadium, don't come looking for anything else for a long while. I wonder what the Ulster GAA equivalent of the Cork footballers having to paint and set-up their own gym in a shed will be?

Quote from: smort on October 19, 2023, 12:03:58 PM
Quote from: The PRO on October 19, 2023, 11:51:41 AMAnyone able to answer this one?

Guy gets a straight red in a county final in a lower grade - intermediate for example.

Does he serve the one match suspension in this year's provincial championship (a different competition?) or the first round of next year's senior championship?

Have direct experience of this, although there wasn't a provisional competition to follow

One of our players got a red card at the end of a championship match. The next championship match, the next season, was at a different grade, and he was able to play.

So unless it carries over into the provincials, which at a guess I don't think does, then the player would be available for the next championship match.

Probably a hole that needs closed as no suspension served

Was this recently ?
Reason I ask is I have a notion that the rules in relation to this were tightened up/changed a few years back.
Not 100% though - it might only have been a proposal/discussion about changing this.
GAA Discussion / Re: County Manager Merry go round
October 19, 2023, 11:22:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2023, 10:56:22 AMDessie Dolan reappointed in Westmeath.
Meanwhile not a single Club has made a nomination for the Waterford football post.

Waterford's attitude to football versus hurling has always been a bit baffling to me. So many in the county seem to have the attitude that bothering with football is beneath them because they are a very serious hurling county - godforbid that you point out that in hurling all they've been doing for most of their history is making up the numbers in terms of the top table of hurling. I remember talking to a lad who was playing for the Waterford footballers at a wedding years back and he was bemoaning the number of club football players who had no interest whatsoever in lining out for the county.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2023, 02:00:23 PMThere is also no reason why a new Casement couldn't also be used for large-scale rugby fixtures including internationals.

I'd imagine the IRFU have no interest whatsoever in holding international games in Belfast - Aviva is just a far better proposition in terms of making money for them. Really struggling to imagine any sort of scenario where the IRFU would be interesting in holding any international in Casement. The last time Ireland played an international in Ravenhill was 2007 and prior to that was 1954.

Maybe some club games might be a possibility but I would imagine that it would be a fairly infrequent occurence to see rugby in Casement.