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Messages - Lamh Dhearg Alba

#1
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
March 24, 2024, 08:13:21 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 24, 2024, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 24, 2024, 12:54:51 PMMickey Harte absolutely wants to win it!
Agree - Tyrone won their first NFL in Mickey's first year in charge, 2002, which was proceeded by winning Sam the next year...

Mickey will want to win the league this year without doubt but the 2002 league was won by Art and Eugene. Mickey made a successful defence of it in his first year in 2003.

Bizarre to see people linking that grim Tyrone defeat today to winning the AI 3 years ago 😂. That team had been contending for years with 3 provincial titles, 1 AI final defeat and a number of semi-final appearances. Had a great summer and deserved their AI. Unfortunately never got back to those heights and now very much in transition, but still stayed in Division 1 with an awful lot of young players coming through. The concern is that even allowing for those new players they shouldn't be losing like that. Management have a bit of work to do to prove they are the right team to work with the talent coming through.
#2
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
March 24, 2024, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 24, 2024, 04:27:00 PMHorrible performance. Tyrone were very very slow. Dublin kicks out were lighting, dublin kicks outs were up to midfield immediately. Dubs were far stronger and fitter. Every time they got the ball they had 2-3 yards before any tyrone man got close to them.

Huge number of wides from very scoreable positions again today. 6 points in first 47mins. What the hell is going on in training as based on today it looked like they had zero plans


This is the ongoing worry - I'm not sure we've had a coherent plan or system since 2021. It's been heartening to see so many young players come through in the league and do well. Ultimately the target of survival and blooding new players was achieved, but again left wondering how much of that was down to the quality of the players pulling Tyrone through rather than the way they were set out.

Absolutely crucial that we see real progress in that respect over the Championship, otherwise need to be seriously looking at a change in management to bring through the new generation.

#3
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
March 08, 2024, 12:19:07 PM
There's probably a fair bit of truth in that. The current management team deserve massive credit for taking Mickey's team, which had an awful lot of strengths but was unfortunately inhibited by micromanagement, and helping them believe in themselves in attack. It was the missing ingredient at the perfect time and it brought Sam in 2021. Dooher and Logan took the best of what Mickey left and moved it on slightly with more freedom. Not every manager could have pulled that off.

Unfortunately pretty much everything since has suggested they aren't sure about how best to set out their own team. We've all too often looked like a rudderless ship, falling out of games for long periods and often, as the article suggests, relying on some individual brilliance to dig us out of a hole. I'd have favoured a change when the 3 year term was up. Given that didn't happen we really need to see real signs of progress in how the management are setting out what they have at their disposal. It's been good to see young players get their chance and do well, but we also run the risk of hindering their potential if it's not done properly. I'm certainly not expecting an AI this year but we need to see that we're on the right track at least. Jury is still out and a big few months ahead.
#4
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
March 01, 2024, 10:18:55 PM
Seanie O'Donnell named too, didn't expect that but really happy his injury clearly nowhere near as bad as it looked.
#5
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
February 25, 2024, 09:17:01 AM
Encouraging second-half last night. McCurry really added to the attack but there was an intensity and focus throughout the team. For the first time in a while Tyrone looked like they knew what they were trying to do. Hard games coming up but something to build on there.

Hope O'Donnell is OK, looked nasty. He has been showing up well so far too.
#6
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 24, 2024, 08:01:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2024, 07:16:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2024, 07:11:21 PMGood win. Bate 16 men truth be told.
Perhaps the plan is to contain for 35 mins then a full press for first 20 or so of 2nd half to blitz the opponent. Worked well.



No mention of the ref letting Canavan have 10 steps before the goal?

https://x.com/thesundaygame/status/1761457015342104580?s=46&t=phQ2HHkWD0UVsLqr_FKpag

How are defenders supposed to do anything when refs let players away with that?!

No sympathy for the defender when he is hanging off the attacker like that. Fair play to Darragh, great goal despite being dragged.

First half was poor from Tyrone but a bit of hope with that second half. McCurry brought another dimension to attack but the whole team lifted their performance and first time in a while Tyrone looked like a team with a shape and coherent plan. Big 2 points and something to try and build on.

Kilpatrick silly again at the end. These kind of incidents are tiresome and undermine Tyrone too often. Has to be sorted.
#7
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 19, 2024, 08:39:45 AM
Quote from: Manning18 on February 18, 2024, 08:13:00 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on February 18, 2024, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on February 18, 2024, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 18, 2024, 05:45:40 PMDublin were actually still probably the best team that year, but Mayo caught them on the hop, after years of been beat by them,then couldn't produce the same display after.



It's Kerry that should've won that all Ireland on the bridle. They left about 2-6 worth of easy scores behind against Tyrone and conceded 3 goals in an extra time loss

Nonsense. Tyrone were down to 14 for 20 minutes and visibly tired in the second half of extra time, allowing Kerry to get back within a point. People have an awful habit of overrating Kerry teams because of the name. It was a decent Kerry team but not a great one. The better team won that day.

Ultimately Tyrone had been knocking at the door for a few years but Dublin were well ahead and we were also hamstrung by an overly cautious approach. In 2021 they had a license to open up more, the Dubs had gone back a few levels, Mayo weren't the team who had pushed them so close, and Kerry were overrated. Tyrone were the best team.

In truth there was more in that team. McShane wasn't fully fit, Darragh was still very young and we hadn't quite worked out how best to employ McKenna. There were more gears. But they rightfully celebrated an unexpected AI and between that and sated ambitions, then injuries, retirals (and McKenna heading off), they never again got back on course before the team started to break up. And there's no crime in that.

I'm don't mean to diminish Tyrone, in the wider context of this discussion I actually think they were decent winners. McShane not starting and Tiernan McCann not even getting on the pitch are signs of a very strong squad overall. Morgan had a season of seasons, the midfield pair were excellent and their scoring efficiency in semi and final that year was superb

I don't think it changes the feeling though that Kerry completely threw it away that year. Simple goals not worked, extremely simple fisted points going wide, missing frees. All the while conceding very soft goals and the game was still a draw in normal time after all that. And the best player in the land couldn't play in ET remember

I don't think Kerry will mind all that much though in hindsight. Would they have brought in O'Connor and  Tally and set up the Tadgh Morley sweeper system that allowed them to win the following year had they got over the line in 21? Probably not

We're basically on the same page here but "completely threw it away" doesn't really cover that Kerry weren't quite good enough in 2021. You talk there about missing chances and conceding soft goals, among other things. The following year they addressed a few of the issues that were there in 2021 and were better all round. Similarly Tyrone had gone backwards drastically, Mayo hadn't kicked on, the Dubs were still refocusing for having another crack at it and the emerging teams like Galway and Derry weren't quite at it yet.
#8
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 18, 2024, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on February 18, 2024, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 18, 2024, 05:45:40 PMDublin were actually still probably the best team that year, but Mayo caught them on the hop, after years of been beat by them,then couldn't produce the same display after.



It's Kerry that should've won that all Ireland on the bridle. They left about 2-6 worth of easy scores behind against Tyrone and conceded 3 goals in an extra time loss

Nonsense. Tyrone were down to 14 for 20 minutes and visibly tired in the second half of extra time, allowing Kerry to get back within a point. People have an awful habit of overrating Kerry teams because of the name. It was a decent Kerry team but not a great one. The better team won that day.

Ultimately Tyrone had been knocking at the door for a few years but Dublin were well ahead and we were also hamstrung by an overly cautious approach. In 2021 they had a license to open up more, the Dubs had gone back a few levels, Mayo weren't the team who had pushed them so close, and Kerry were overrated. Tyrone were the best team.

In truth there was more in that team. McShane wasn't fully fit, Darragh was still very young and we hadn't quite worked out how best to employ McKenna. There were more gears. But they rightfully celebrated an unexpected AI and between that and sated ambitions, then injuries, retirals (and McKenna heading off), they never again got back on course before the team started to break up. And there's no crime in that.
#9
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 18, 2024, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 18, 2024, 02:55:31 PMTyrone lucky that Matthew Tierney has missed a few easy frees.

Galway were lucky he was on the park to hit them! Clear cut red card in the first half. I didn't complain too much about Kilpatrick's red against Roscommon even though it should have been yellow, because he was asking for trouble flying into a challenge like that. But then you see that today, a clear red and it isn't given.

Tyrone performance nowhere near good enough regardless. Too many mistakes, poor decision making and lack of leadership. Seconds left and nobody is willing to take on a shot. Very poor and likely a very damaging defeat.

#10
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 06, 2024, 03:19:26 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 06, 2024, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on February 06, 2024, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: statto on February 06, 2024, 07:07:27 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on February 05, 2024, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on February 05, 2024, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 05, 2024, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2024, 04:51:31 PMI don't want to win the NFL or Ulster this year.

Tailor training after the NFL to peak for the All Ireland QFs. A loss to Donegal will get the knives out for everyone about "Glen lads back too early" "no depth" "no forwards" "Mickey Harte shouldn't have taken the Derry job" etc.

Nobody better at a siege mentality than Mickey Harte.

The one problem with that is Mickey never likes to lose games ever so I imagine we'll just be flat to the mat from now until we get beat!

The other problem is mickey hasnt beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo in 10 years in a championship match.

Would the last time this happened not be 2008 AI final? I could be missing a game, but the big gripe towards the end in Tyrone was how long we had went without cracking these 3 in championship. I can't remember a more recent one, possibly a Mayo game I'm forgetting?

You're right, 2008 was his last Championship win in Croke Park against a genuine contender. He also struggled after going more defensive (post Donegal defeats) to find the right balance between defence and attack. Both of which made him an interesting choice for a Derry side trying to kick on by winning big games against the top teams and trying to find the right balance between defence and attack.
Is there a case to be made that Tyrone were a little off the top teams in the country at that time?Tyrone fans were spoilt from 2003 to 2008 going from never winning an all Ireland to 3 in 6 years and with that comes a demand for more success.Canavan their greatest ever player was coming to end and mulligan,mcguigan and o Neill were top class at their peak in those years.they didn't have anywhere near close to as good a forward line in the years that followed.

Yeah there is a case to be made and it's the standard response but I don't think it stands up to serious scrutiny. I'd say 2008 was Mickey's finest hour (so far 😁) in terms of management as he won an AI with McGuigan with reduced vision, fitness and mobility, Mugsy out of sorts and on the bench, SON not there but for a very late cameo and Canavan long gone. It was a real team achievement and the next couple of years looked rosy with that team still growing, SON back and Mugsy re-focused, and AI winning minor teams from 2004 and 2008. Instead he tried to go back to the pre 2008 model and failed badly in very winnable big games in 2009 and 2010.

The team was getting old in 2011 and 2012 (although he hadn't refreshed it properly if I'm being harsh) so I'd write those off. There were then a few seasons when he did well to stay pretty competitive with a less talented panel and I wouldn't question those defeats at all.

The new team 2016 onwards he made a mess of with an overly defensive model. Humiliating defeat against the Dubs in 2017 when the game was over after 5 minutes due to there being no plan other than ultra defence. Nothing wrong with losing to that team but the manner of it was terrible. Following year he threw 3 years of work out the window on AI final day by trying to go out all out attack with a team who had been drilled on mass defence. Over by half time. You wondered the following year when wr led Kerry were things coming together. Came apart second half trying to defend a lead.

Was no coincidence in 2021 players saying they loved Mickey etc but now felt free to express themselves on the big day and take on scores.

Now Derry folk can say bitter Tyrone people etc but there's nothing there I wasn't saying on  Tyrone threads for a few years before Mickey moved on. I've a massive respect for the man in so many ways, but he made a lot of mistakes from 2008 onwards. Perhaps he has learned from those, perhaps the hunger from the Derry players will make a difference and coupled with Mickey's experience will drive them on. But the questions are valid.

You don't concede 2-17 in game by playing ultra defensive. Was at that match and Tyrone were awful defensively.

Well indeed, that's the point. Mickey had built a new side on an ultra defensive model and that was the first big test. Dublin scored a goal after 4 minutes and Tyrone having gone a few points down so early had no clue how to come back. The Dublin crowd were doing the ole stuff in the first half. The manner of the defeat was entirely down to the game plan. That the game plan was so utterly flawed was illustrated by him out of nothing going all out attack in the game against the Dubs the year after - and getting hammered again.

And in response to Captain Obvious, I'm in no way talking down Mickey Harte's contribution to Tyrone's success in the 2000s. The players were class but he was fundamental to it all. He's also been an inspirational figure in how has handled himself through harrowing experiences - and indeed how he has supported others in tough times.

Doesn't mean his very poor record in big GAA games over the past 16 years shouldn't be scrutinised.
#11
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 06, 2024, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: statto on February 06, 2024, 07:07:27 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on February 05, 2024, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on February 05, 2024, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 05, 2024, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2024, 04:51:31 PMI don't want to win the NFL or Ulster this year.

Tailor training after the NFL to peak for the All Ireland QFs. A loss to Donegal will get the knives out for everyone about "Glen lads back too early" "no depth" "no forwards" "Mickey Harte shouldn't have taken the Derry job" etc.

Nobody better at a siege mentality than Mickey Harte.

The one problem with that is Mickey never likes to lose games ever so I imagine we'll just be flat to the mat from now until we get beat!

The other problem is mickey hasnt beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo in 10 years in a championship match.

Would the last time this happened not be 2008 AI final? I could be missing a game, but the big gripe towards the end in Tyrone was how long we had went without cracking these 3 in championship. I can't remember a more recent one, possibly a Mayo game I'm forgetting?

You're right, 2008 was his last Championship win in Croke Park against a genuine contender. He also struggled after going more defensive (post Donegal defeats) to find the right balance between defence and attack. Both of which made him an interesting choice for a Derry side trying to kick on by winning big games against the top teams and trying to find the right balance between defence and attack.
Is there a case to be made that Tyrone were a little off the top teams in the country at that time?Tyrone fans were spoilt from 2003 to 2008 going from never winning an all Ireland to 3 in 6 years and with that comes a demand for more success.Canavan their greatest ever player was coming to end and mulligan,mcguigan and o Neill were top class at their peak in those years.they didn't have anywhere near close to as good a forward line in the years that followed.

Yeah there is a case to be made and it's the standard response but I don't think it stands up to serious scrutiny. I'd say 2008 was Mickey's finest hour (so far 😁) in terms of management as he won an AI with McGuigan with reduced vision, fitness and mobility, Mugsy out of sorts and on the bench, SON not there but for a very late cameo and Canavan long gone. It was a real team achievement and the next couple of years looked rosy with that team still growing, SON back and Mugsy re-focused, and AI winning minor teams from 2004 and 2008. Instead he tried to go back to the pre 2008 model and failed badly in very winnable big games in 2009 and 2010.

The team was getting old in 2011 and 2012 (although he hadn't refreshed it properly if I'm being harsh) so I'd write those off. There were then a few seasons when he did well to stay pretty competitive with a less talented panel and I wouldn't question those defeats at all.

The new team 2016 onwards he made a mess of with an overly defensive model. Humiliating defeat against the Dubs in 2017 when the game was over after 5 minutes due to there being no plan other than ultra defence. Nothing wrong with losing to that team but the manner of it was terrible. Following year he threw 3 years of work out the window on AI final day by trying to go out all out attack with a team who had been drilled on mass defence. Over by half time. You wondered the following year when wr led Kerry were things coming together. Came apart second half trying to defend a lead.

Was no coincidence in 2021 players saying they loved Mickey etc but now felt free to express themselves on the big day and take on scores.

Now Derry folk can say bitter Tyrone people etc but there's nothing there I wasn't saying on  Tyrone threads for a few years before Mickey moved on. I've a massive respect for the man in so many ways, but he made a lot of mistakes from 2008 onwards. Perhaps he has learned from those, perhaps the hunger from the Derry players will make a difference and coupled with Mickey's experience will drive them on. But the questions are valid.
#12
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 05, 2024, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on February 05, 2024, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 05, 2024, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 05, 2024, 04:51:31 PMI don't want to win the NFL or Ulster this year.

Tailor training after the NFL to peak for the All Ireland QFs. A loss to Donegal will get the knives out for everyone about "Glen lads back too early" "no depth" "no forwards" "Mickey Harte shouldn't have taken the Derry job" etc.

Nobody better at a siege mentality than Mickey Harte.

The one problem with that is Mickey never likes to lose games ever so I imagine we'll just be flat to the mat from now until we get beat!

The other problem is mickey hasnt beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo in 10 years in a championship match.

Would the last time this happened not be 2008 AI final? I could be missing a game, but the big gripe towards the end in Tyrone was how long we had went without cracking these 3 in championship. I can't remember a more recent one, possibly a Mayo game I'm forgetting?

You're right, 2008 was his last Championship win in Croke Park against a genuine contender. He also struggled after going more defensive (post Donegal defeats) to find the right balance between defence and attack. Both of which made him an interesting choice for a Derry side trying to kick on by winning big games against the top teams and trying to find the right balance between defence and attack.
#13
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2024
February 04, 2024, 10:29:19 PM
First half was positive enough for Tyrone. Very young team away against a settled outfit and with the wind against them, missed a couple of easy chances and all of a sudden 5 down and could easily have collapsed. Instead they worked their way back into it and the 3 point half time lead flattered Derry. Second half however was grim, totally lost their heads when the scores didn't come with the wind. You can put that down to lack of experience for sure, but it did happen a couple of times last season too which raises questions.

Overall though there are a number of very good young players who are looking like they can step up and a number of established players to come back in. Get the mix right and there's a right good team in there. Big question for me is do we have the management to pull that off.
#14
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
February 04, 2024, 09:37:28 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on February 04, 2024, 05:25:07 PMMaybe it's just me but I thought there was enough in there to be hopeful for the season.  Showed a bit of fight which Tyrone teams haven't done in recent years.  Clarke and quinn got stuck in in horrendous conditions.

I thought there were positives without doubt. Pretty young team going away to what is a settled Derry side and with a gale in their face and after a missing some good chances early on find themselves 0-6 to 0-1 behind. They showed character at that point to turn it around and get right back in it. To be honest the 3 point half-time lead flattered Derry. Have to balance that with a very poor second-half where they badly lost their composure. You can put that down to a lack of experience, but I'd also have a nagging worry that Tyrone last season played very well against the wind against Roscommon and Galway then came apart in the second period. Again there are potentially some questions about preparation and management there.

But overall there are positives to take from that. Young players are stepping up and should continue to get better. Add in the likes of Harte, Meyler, Kilpatrick and McGeary (Mattie too if he can once again come back from injury and McShane if he ever reappears) and you potentially have a very good team. I'm just not convinced we have the management team to bring it all together but time will tell on that one.
#15
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
February 02, 2024, 10:55:24 AM
Was a harsh decision at the time and surprised it hasn't been overturned. That said, what was Conn thinking flying in like that in the first place? There was nothing to be gained from making that challenge. We've had too many daft red cards the last couple of years due to players not keeping their heads. Kennedy against Derry and Burns in Galway being prime examples. It needs to be addressed.

Good news that McCurry is available on Sunday as we're looking very thin on the ground in terms of experience.