Minor, U17 or U18.. Croke Parks take on it....

[Taylor]

There is no ideal age groups - odd or even.

You will always have players who have a 'good' or 'bad' birthday.

17 is probably the correct age for the majority to start with the seniors.

From my reading if the age group is to be changed to 18 and players cant then play seniors until after that age then a lot of smaller clubs are absolutely stuffed with regards to player numbers.

[Armagh18]

The change to U17 and U19 isn't working, at least in Armagh in my opinion, anyway.

The U19 competition is almost non-existent (maybe a few games per year) with the result that a 17 year old lad (unless he is a genuine star) won't get much club  football as they won't be fit for senior.
Like U19s, the reserve football only provides a few games per year.

Changing back to U18 would give that 17 year old lad another full year of competitive football where he will be matched better physically.

Play under 19's and under 17's. Let the stronger lads at u19 play u19 and senior. Gives a chance to lads coming from u17's who aren't ready for senior football another couple of years playing at their own level to develop physically for senior football.
Most lads I know would have played minor and senior games in a week not a bother to them.

That would be fine if the U19s was a proper competition like U17 is.
There was a huge difference in the amount of U19 games played compared to U17s.  The 19s was an afterthought and lots of games not fielded or conceded.

Yeah I agree, u19's in Armagh was treated like the old u21 competition (maybe not just as bad) As far as I know currently u17 games are played on Monday nights so maybe run the under 19s on a wednesday, gives lads u17's who are playing both a chance to recover and also gives u19's a chance to recover before senior games at the weekend. Although that'll cause issues with reserve games then as I'm sure a lot of under 19s play reserves if their club has a team. 

[johnnycool]

Fergal talking you through it..

https://vimeo.com/755277681/12cd175657

[Captain Obvious]

Fergal talking you through it..

https://vimeo.com/755277681/12cd175657

In summary HQ want the U19 grade and if you don't accept what they want any lad aged 18 won't be able to play senior club football.

[Taylor]

Fergal talking you through it..

https://vimeo.com/755277681/12cd175657

In summary HQ want the U19 grade and if you don't accept what they want any lad aged 18 won't be able to play senior club football.

Exactly it.

And many rural clubs will go to the wall/find it very difficult to field if this rule comes in

[johnnycool]

Fergal talking you through it..

https://vimeo.com/755277681/12cd175657

In summary HQ want the U19 grade and if you don't accept what they want any lad aged 18 won't be able to play senior club football.

Exactly it.

And many rural clubs will go to the wall/find it very difficult to field if this rule comes in

I get the decoupling thing, but there's nothing to keep the decoupling of juvenile to adult at U17 and also have an U18 club minor grade.

No player should be playing more than one grade at intercounty level, I'd agree with that so fire on at U17 and U19 there, but there's no reason club grades can't be different.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Massive debate about this issue and how to resolve it going on in Cork, where I'm based..and Kerry right now. Can I ask a question here? 95% of lads down here are turning 19 the year they do the leaving cert. The GAA are claiming (in video of Fergal McGill someone posted above) that it's evenly split between 18 and 19 years of age. But anecdotal evidence from most counties I've made enquiries in suggest this is well off. What's it like for young lads in the north?
I'm infuriated by the f*cking around the GAA are doing over last few years overall on this issue. I've no problem talking about burnout but they have made a mess of important years in the careers of a lot of players in my experience and are showing nothing but ignorance towards to reality on the ground if you ask me. U17 makes no sense down here anyway as I've said so I'm sure there will be a push to go to u18 and there will also be a strong resistance to imposition of "decoupling" across the board I think. Some compromise there should be possible if Croke park are open to it. I don't see the sense in stopping even a half decent 18 year old playing Junior football with his club.

[johnnycool]

Massive debate about this issue and how to resolve it going on in Cork, where I'm based..and Kerry right now. Can I ask a question here? 95% of lads down here are turning 19 the year they do the leaving cert. The GAA are claiming (in video of Fergal McGill someone posted above) that it's evenly split between 18 and 19 years of age. But anecdotal evidence from most counties I've made enquiries in suggest this is well off. What's it like for young lads in the north?
I'm infuriated by the f*cking around the GAA are doing over last few years overall on this issue. I've no problem talking about burnout but they have made a mess of important years in the careers of a lot of players in my experience and are showing nothing but ignorance towards to reality on the ground if you ask me. U17 makes no sense down here anyway as I've said so I'm sure there will be a push to go to u18 and there will also be a strong resistance to imposition of "decoupling" across the board I think. Some compromise there should be possible if Croke park are open to it. I don't see the sense in stopping even a half decent 18 year old playing Junior football with his club.

Exams can happen up north at 17 (AS) and 18 (full A level) so normally the end of May and most of June are dead months no matter what you do, but I believe that at club level it is possible to have minor at 18 and decouple at 17, giving the 18 yo's both a run out at minor and exposure to adult..

They've come up with a solution for elite player burn out which impacts 2% of that playing population but has pushed lads away from the sport a year earlier and in our club we used that extra year to break lads into adult in the hope that they stay the following year. It doesn't always work but the last couple of years have been a disaster in terms of player retention for us.

[twohands!!!]

Massive debate about this issue and how to resolve it going on in Cork, where I'm based..and Kerry right now. Can I ask a question here? 95% of lads down here are turning 19 the year they do the leaving cert. The GAA are claiming (in video of Fergal McGill someone posted above) that it's evenly split between 18 and 19 years of age. But anecdotal evidence from most counties I've made enquiries in suggest this is well off. What's it like for young lads in the north?
I'm infuriated by the f*cking around the GAA are doing over last few years overall on this issue. I've no problem talking about burnout but they have made a mess of important years in the careers of a lot of players in my experience and are showing nothing but ignorance towards to reality on the ground if you ask me. U17 makes no sense down here anyway as I've said so I'm sure there will be a push to go to u18 and there will also be a strong resistance to imposition of "decoupling" across the board I think. Some compromise there should be possible if Croke park are open to it. I don't see the sense in stopping even a half decent 18 year old playing Junior football with his club.

Exams can happen up north at 17 (AS) and 18 (full A level) so normally the end of May and most of June are dead months no matter what you do, but I believe that at club level it is possible to have minor at 18 and decouple at 17, giving the 18 yo's both a run out at minor and exposure to adult..

They've come up with a solution for elite player burn out which impacts 2% of that playing population but has pushed lads away from the sport a year earlier and in our club we used that extra year to break lads into adult in the hope that they stay the following year. It doesn't always work but the last couple of years have been a disaster in terms of player retention for us.

Surely both Departments of Education should be able to supply the ages of those sitting Leaving Cert/and both A Level exams which would help enormously clarify things enormously.

With transition year in place in most schools in the republic (quick google search says 92% of schools in 2019) and children starting school that bit later - (Four-year-olds now account for only 17 per cent of starting junior infants, a figure that stood at 47 per cent in 2001 - according to another quick and dirty google) the school finishing age in the republic has to have gone up. Throw in lads repeating and you have lads nearly being overage for the U20 grade in school.

[johnnycool]

Cork clubs looking a bit of flexibility from Croke Park. I hope they succeed.

Examiner;

Majority of Cork GAA clubs in favour of minor returning to under 18
At the end of Tuesday night's special Cork county board meeting to ascertain the views of Cork clubs on their preferred minor age-grade, Cork secretary Kevin O'Donovan called for a moratorium on decoupling at U18 until 2024.
Majority of Cork GAA clubs in favour of minor returning to under 18
Kevin O'Donovan, Cork Gaa CEO/Secretary.

TUE, 25 OCT, 2022 - 22:20
EOGHAN CORMICAN
Social share
The vast majority of Cork clubs want minor returned to U18, but there is a deep split within the county as to whether decoupling should apply or not.

At the end of Tuesday night's special Cork county board meeting to ascertain the views of Cork clubs on their preferred minor age-grade, Cork secretary Kevin O'Donovan called for a moratorium on decoupling at U18 until 2024.

O'Donovan said it is imperative that an U18 club competition is run next year, but that the reintroduction of competitions at this age grade would not rob struggling clubs of their 18-year-olds for adult fare in 2023.

"We all know the U18 grade is an absolute cornerstone of the GAA. We do need an U18 competition [in 2023]," O'Donovan told the meeting.

"It will be a hybrid version. It might have to be short. It might have to be knockout. It can't be a full program of meaningful games without decoupling. It just can't. However, I do think there should be a moratorium on decoupling for the full year of 2023."

The Cork secretary, while acknowledging the concerns of the several rural clubs who said decoupling will sound the "death knell " for them, is in favour of decoupling at U18.

"I support decoupling despite all the reservations I see from a small club perspective. For us to survive as a club in the long run (referencing his own club Kilmeen), we must have a good minor team on an annual basis. The years we can't field, we'll join up with someone else and still give them games.

"The moratorium in 2023 would give that breathing space for the county board and clubs to look at this issue for the 10-15% of clubs that are going to be challenged by decoupling.

"I am still in favour of it, but postpone it until 2024 to allow for a bridging competition next year and work towards solutions." The majority of views expressed throughout the meeting could be neatly packaged into two bundles; clubs with healthy playing numbers were happy for minor to go back up to U18 with decoupling, while rural clubs whose playing numbers are nowhere near as plentiful supported minor being restored to U18 - but without decoupling.

If decoupling at U18 is introduced at Congress next spring, Cork GAA chairman Marc Sheehan said the county executive will explore derogations and deviations for the clubs whose adult teams will be impacted by no longer being able to call upon the U18s in the club.

"It not a surprise what is coming out of the meeting in terms of the decoupling question and the implications of that for the smaller clubs. That has to be taken on board. We are amenable to a derogation. We are amenable to an accommodation in as much as we would be allowed to do that," said Sheehan.

"But there is the bigger national picture which we are not clear on. This conversation is taking place in every other county at present. The concerns around decoupling are in other counties, as well, so I would expect there will be possibilities for derogation or some deviation. Precisely what they are, I don't know at this point in time.

"But as an executive, we are not in the business of putting any club out of business. We are amenable in as much as we are permitted." One suggestion from the floor to help struggling clubs was to allow U18s to play adult League for their club, but not championship.

"Looking at the three options from Croke Park, there is very little flexibility. Would a possible compromise be if U18 was decoupled for championship only so the U18 could play league and challenges at adult level for his club," proposed Freemount's John O'Flynn.

"For smaller clubs, the difficulty arises in fielding teams for League matches. The issue for fixture-makers is that the championship matches are the ones that are going to cause difficulty if there is no decoupling, so maybe a compromise is if you decouple for league and challenge games." Kevin O'Donovan expressed a concern at the end of the meeting that such "hybrid motions" won't survive Croke Park.

[SCFC]

Westmeath going to vote for a return to under 18 and decoupling from adult.

[johnnycool]

Westmeath going to vote for a return to under 18 and decoupling from adult.

At 18?

[Wildweasel74]

18 old enough to play senior.

[SCFC]

Westmeath going to vote for a return to under 18 and decoupling from adult.

At 18?

Correct. Meaning a lad turning 18 on 1st January won't play his first adult game of hurling or football until he's 19 and probably 2 or 3 months old. Crazy.

[Throw ball]

In the North the under 17 system means that a young fella going into year 13 ( old lower 6th) could have no football - under 19 is a waste of time. That is unless he is an elite player. I am also of the opinion that to say small clubs will fold if they are unable to field a 17 or 18 year old means the club isn't sufficient in the first place. It may be a struggle for 1 year but generally these players will come along one year later. In many cases the clubs want the better younger player to replace a poorer older player. The welfare of the younger player isn't even considered. I know that will be an unpopular opinion.

Having been involved at underage club football for many years I also find the under 15 grade a player welfare problem. Puberty means, in my opinion, that you can have a massive difference physically from the youngest player and oldest in the age group. This is most evident in the grade one player as the matches are much more physical.  Moving to even age range will lesson this problem.