Dublin v Mayo 2020 All-Ireland final

[Farrandeelin]

Best of luck to the Mayo team later on today.

Not expecting the win, but hoping for it. If one looks long and hard at both camps, only one outcome is viable. Matches are not won on paper, nor on previous games. Tradition and history don't take the field, so it'd be nice to have the gods smiling down on us for a change this evening later on. But it needs to be earned. Players will need to play out of their skin and make it happen. Not much more to be said by me I'm afraid. It's over to the panel now. Please God Mayo will do it.

Up Mayo.

[An Watcher]

Gusty winds, posiibly some heavy rain, not going to say it'll favour either team but hopefully it'll disrupt dublin in some shape or fashion. C'mon Mayo

[bannside]

I was impressed with Mayo in the semis, especially their running game and joined up play going forward. There were slack moments in defence which could be costly against a team as deadly as the Dubs.

I think Mayo have more about themselves this year. Durcan flying, O Loughlin on the other flank, Conroy a new handful up front, COC flying and AOS turning into an improved team player. (I though he was trying to do too much himself in previous years).

Throw in mixed weather, the lack of supporters which may have an effect (hard to quantify because Mayo also bring massive support) and all in all I see a thriller which could go either way.

I sincerely hope if Mayo lose it is by 6 and not by a point. That would just be too cruel on what has been a superb bunch of stalwarts on the Mayo panel, some as mooted above who may retire after this.

Come on Mayo.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-finances-didn-t-win-five-all-irelands-in-a-row-1.4439956

Bernard Brogan: 'Finances didn't win five All-Irelands in a row'
Capital Gains: The former Dublin star on why the money debate needs to find some middle ground
about 3 hours ago Updated: 27 minutes ago

Malachy Clerkin



Oh no. Not another article about money and the Dubs. Turn the page, Mammy. Make the bad man stop. It's All-Ireland final day. It's nearly Christmas week. It's been the worst year of our lives. Seriously, can we not?

Okay, wait. Just wait. This one is different. For a start, we come in peace. The worst thing about the Dublin funding debate is always the refusal of either side to give an inch. State that the Dublin players are supremely talented and you're accused of ignoring the money. Mention that the five-in-a-row might have been influenced by Dublin's financial might and you're insulting the players. If there ever was a middle ground, it has long been grown over.

Well, this is a dispatch from that middle ground. Or at least an attempt to locate it. Our guide for the journey is someone uniquely placed to give a view. Bernard Brogan comes to the debate wearing two hats. One is that of a player who lived inside the bubble for the best part of 15 years and experienced all the changes along the way. The other is that of someone who was deeply involved at the planning stage when Dublin set about becoming a financial powerhouse.

Actually, he has a third hat. He is a Dubs fan. Outside the tent for a Dublin All-Ireland final for the first time since he was 11 years old. A fortnight ago, after the Cavan game, that new status allowed him break the habit of a lifetime and he got involved in a bit of Twitter to-and-fro on the subject of the day.

"Clinical display from Dublin," he wrote, "my argument is that this Dublin financial debate is masking the conversation about how good these Dublin players are, Once in a generation players in full flow!"

     
There followed the sort of calm and civil back and forth that has made Twitter such a force for good in the world. One lad told him to go home to bed. Another said they said the same things about Lance Armstrong. Another told him if he wanted his opinion, he'd ask what the specials were down at SuperValu. Which was pretty funny, in fairness.

"Ah look," he says "The middle ground is where I'd like to be on this. That's what I would love to be able to find with people. I got involved in a debate on Twitter because I felt annoyed that the Dublin players were being dismissed and not getting the credit for the work they've put in over the years.

"I know that I come from a position of bias. Obviously I do – I have been in a bubble with those players for a long time. I've seen their development all the way along. So I get annoyed when I see people saying that these players are only able to win because of financial doping. I'm not saying I know everything – I definitely don't. But what I can bring to it is the view from what it means to be a player in the middle of it. Maybe that can help find that middle ground."

So let's get into it. Can we start by admitting, on some level, that finance is a factor? That feels like an important thing for anyone involved in Dublin GAA to come out and say. If money is the great unmentionable in the GAA, that is exponentially the case when it comes to the Dubs. Can we at least say it matters?

"Of course it does, yeah," says Brogan. "Dublin have brought in a lot of finance over the past decade, plenty of it. It was got for a good reason and it worked. I wouldn't go knocking something that worked. There's loads of counter-arguments, absolutely, I accept that. And I know it's easy for me to say it because I'm a Dub. But this is something that worked. My feeling would be that we should take the learnings from it and apply that to other areas of the GAA.


"Loads of counties are doing it well. Dublin aren't the only success story when it comes to raising finance. Kerry have been able to go to the States and raise half a million quid here and there when they've needed to build their centre of excellence. They have as much finance at the high-performance level as Dublin would have."

At this point, it's probably worth trying to nail down what we are talking about. We could spend the day talking about the ins and outs of the GAA's funding of Dublin being multiples of what other counties get. But in fairness, not even the most fervent critic of the system can claim that funding made Bernard Brogan. It's not really in the scope of his experience.

Brian Fenton at the announcement of a partnership between Dublin GAA and Mitsubishi Motors Ireland. Photograph: Morgan Treacy/Inpho
Brian Fenton at the announcement of a partnership between Dublin GAA and Mitsubishi Motors Ireland. Photograph: Morgan Treacy/Inpho
No, the area where he can speak with authority is what it's like to be in the Dublin senior football set-up and the role finance plays in it. In the bubble, he says, the conversation just doesn't exist. He is visibly surprised to find out that the debate isn't any more heated this year than in other years, which just goes to show how little headspace players have for it.

"I know there are Dublin fans who, as soon as anyone mentions money, they take that as saying, 'Well, anyone could win All-Irelands for Dublin.' And it annoys me a bit now that I'm removed from it. Because I just feel that it is questioning the team, even if it isn't meant that way. I have seen the efforts of everyone there and I am able to say how small a factor the financial side of it is.

[bannside]

.....unless you dont have it. End of article.

[seafoid]

Mayo can't compete against Dublin  in the Duracell Bunny stakes . Nobody can

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-look-to-have-one-trick-too-many-for-rejuvenated-mayo-1.4441038

On each occasion that Mayo recorded big wins in 2019, against Galway in the qualifiers and Donegal in the quarter-finals, they had to face Kerry and Dublin within a week and were simply unable to find the gas to keep going.

[rodney trotter]

In a normal year there would be a lot of players on extended panels who would have either already played their last championship match or who would probably bow out tomorrow

McAuley
O'Sullivan
McManamon
Andrews
O'Carroll (in truth his return has been a total damp squib)
McMahon possibly

Higgins
Parsons
Boyle
Seamus O'Shea
Vaughan
Jason Doherty would be in there as well but for injury

Cluxton and Clarke could be in there too

These panels will change drastically over the next couple of years

But if there's another All-Ireland final next July, Herbie could ride again for some them at least

In Argentine parlance this is almost like the Apertura All-Ireland with next July being the Clausura

December 19th to the start of the next championship in April is not a long time, not much more than three months

A bit surprising the way O Sullivan has went from a key part of the defence as a sweeper under Gavin, to not making the 26.

Had he any injury or just the competition for places? McAuley named in the 26, first time in this years championship I think

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-to-create-pressure-and-mayhem-all-over-the-park-1.4439920

Jim McGuinness: Mayo need to create pressure and mayhem all over the park
James Horan's side need to challenge Dublin kick-outs and make sure their own is solid
about 3 hours ago

Jim McGuinness





What do Mayo need to do? What can James Horan try? I suppose it's a question that will be going through the minds of thousands of nervous Mayo supporters around the world this morning. That and: can Christmas come early for once?
Well, maybe.
A moment will have come where James sat down with a pen and paper and thought about what needs to happen to cause a malfunction in this Dublin machine. It's a word that is used a lot about Dublin. But, of course, the truth is, they are only human.
So for me the most important thing about Mayo's game plan is pressure. How many different ways can they create pressure situations on Dublin?
The first area is on Dublin's kick-out. The number of column inches and broadcast airtime devoted to Stephen Cluxton is vast. But it is because his influence has not waned and doesn't change. So it leaves Mayo with a clear choice. To take them on or not. I feel it is vital that Mayo take them on. That doesn't mean you necessarily win possession off their kick-out. The chances of doing that are not great. But you would create that sense of pressure. Can you force the players who receive the ball to make decisions they wouldn't take with less pressure? Can you force Stephen Cluxton to take his second or third option – and then make winning that ball combative and apply pressure? It has to be full-on commitment. But the athletic profile of their younger players gives me reason to believe they can challenge Dublin in this area.
The second objective is to stop Dublin getting the ball in their hand. Once they take control of the football, then they slip into possession mode. So can you apply pressure on them in open play? It is particularly hard to do this against Dublin because they are extremely well schooled. They are big and athletic and they can beat a lone tackler and simply do not want to force the ball through contact. They will lay it off to the next free man. They don't take the risk to give defenders a chance to get at them.
•   Jim McGuinness: Cavan need illogical courage and variety to down the Dubs
•   Jim McGuinness: Pray the advanced mark doesn't ruin another Mayo-Dublin epic
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CLICK HERE: Irish Times guide to sport on TV this week
So Mayo must be very organised and disciplined and work in twos and threes where possible. You decide when you go and then you trap aggressively and squeeze them towards the sideline. The Mayo forwards have a big part to play as well: their inside forward line can stop the Dublin ball carriers from freely going back out the pitch when they don't fancy the options in front of them. Ciarán Kilkenny does this brilliantly, backpedaling to buy space and change the angle of attack. In short, they must be harassed and hurried all evening.
When Dublin attack now, they are simultaneously preparing to defend in the event of losing the ball. So if you do win the ball on your defensive 21 you are facing 13 Dublin players suddenly in defensive mode just to get downfield. So the first two or three passes out of pressure by Mayo become critical. The squeeze goes towards the ball so if they can work the ball smartly back to the middle of the field and out the weak side, the space will open up. The hand-passing needs to be sharp and slick to find a way through that pressure. That is something that Mayo have to be conscious of. But if they can do this, they could reap rewards.
Then you come to the midfield dilemma. James McCarthy and Brian Fenton are a colossal force. Conor Loftus is going to be at a physical disadvantage and I think they are going to have to supplement their midfield on David Clarke's kick-out. So Conor Loftus goes left, Matthew Ruane centre and Aidan O'Shea goes right and you go to those two if you can't get the short kick away. And from a running point of view, Conor has good legs and will enjoy that aspect. So he should be used as a decoy.
Tommy Conroy should play close to Aidan O'Shea to make the most of his finishing skills. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Mayo's kick-out is a major issue. It could unravel for them and I see Dublin zeroing in on that. If the kick-out does collapse then Mayo are in trouble. It is vital they get the ball in their hands on their kick-outs.
And having studied Mayo they usually start well but the longer it goes on, it tends to dissipate. For me, it is just about process. And one of Dublin's best strengths is their ability to work you out. If you get joy from one strategy, they will figure it out and close it down. So you need another plan.
In the event of a collapse, I think a protectionist kick-out could work best for Mayo rather than precision, short- or mid-range. You kick the ball over the top of your own six defenders and you drop your midfielder into that pack so that you have seven players where the ball is going to break and your half forwards coming the other way and it becomes a chase for the breaking ball. And even if you don't win them all, you still have bodies behind the ball to slow down Dublin's transition. It gives Mayo an out if they are getting murdered on short to medium kick-outs. It is a good go-to in a bad situation– and that bad situation will probably materialise at some stage.
And that complements the overall pressure game you are trying to apply on Dublin. Even if you don't win the ball, you have your biggest players competing for the ball – and you will win some of those. And Dublin will match that. They will commit men to that break. So suddenly, you are dictating Dublin's structure.
And therefore, they can't be set up in those few seconds. And if and when Mayo get the ball, the opportunity to get their transition running game going will present itself. That's when the fun could start.
All of this is predicated on Mayo's determination to drag Dublin into the trenches: to psychologically ruffle them and create as many dynamics and as much mayhem as possible. They have a lot of pace in the backline, highly effective aerobic runners in Loftus at 9, O'Connor at 12 and Kevin McLoughlin at 10 in that midfield triangle. The option of the long ball into Aidan O'Shea is there and I would play Tommy Conroy close to him because he is so sharp and heads-up and is a true finisher.
Dublin have been the hardest hitting and, in my opinion, the most defensive team in the championship. They have a man to man/totally zonal system with a serious emphasis on covering space. Their awareness of covering space is excellent. Watch how often their full forwards drop back into their own half.
Dublin's intensity and work rate and turnovers is superior to those of their challengers. It should be the other way. It must be if you are to live with them. And thus we are back to pressure. I believe if Mayo can tick all these pressure boxes, then they do have a realistic of becoming All-Ireland champions.

[MayoBuck]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40193160.html

Is that how people inside the Dublin camp feel about Mayo?

[macdanger2]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40193160.html

Is that how people inside the Dublin camp feel about Mayo?

He comes across as fairly bitter, must have had his eye wiped by a Mayo man in his younger days 

[seafoid]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40193160.html

Is that how people inside the Dublin camp feel about Mayo?

In my experience that,s how most Dublin posters feel about the rest of the teams.
Dublin work harder , Kerry should concentrate, Meath should get organised , everyone is just jealous agus mar sin de.
The GAA have created a dystopia.

[SouthDublinBro]

McAuley named in the 26, first time in this years championship I think

That will put the fear of god into Aidan O'Shea

[Dire Ear]

Cmon Mayo

[Mayo Mick]

I don't see this game being as one sided as some predict. Dublin will not give up their quest for 6 easily and won't want the 5 in a row tarnished by a heavy defeat. Expect them to scrap for everything even when the game is beyond them. The problem for the Dubs is that they are way under cooked coming in to this game and their main source of possession, turnovers, will not yield much against a team that are even better at turnovers. Nor will their patient, probing game yield much against a team that will not tire as easily as the likes of Westmeath or Cavan.

I expect we will prevail by 5 or 6 points - such a pity I and thousands can't be there and I wonder will it feel like an AI.

[grounded]

Good luck Mayo. Fingers and toes crossed for you