Joe Brolly

[BennyCake]

Marty34 does have a point. Nationalists were treated disgracefully in the north.

But this talk of a UI needs input from unionists about how it's going to work, blah blah... no amount of talking or money will ever ever make unionists want to be in a UI. The only way it's going to work is if there's a yes vote for a UI, then do it, and deal with the consequences (likely another Troubles era). As mad as that sounds, that's what will happen if there's a UI. If you're a nationalist but can't or don't want to deal with that consequence, then forget about ever living in a UI.

There will never be "the right time" for a UI, as far as unionists (and some nationalists) are concerned.

Even the lunatics in SF recognise that holding a unity referendum without an agreed plan for a United Ireland is crazy.

If you're waiting on unionists agreement on how a United Ireland might work, you'll be waiting a long long time.

Well sure we'll not bother then because you think so. It's the job for those on the unification side to make the case and convince people.
Remember the last time a referendum was held without an agreed way forward for different outcomes...

That's not what I meant.

Unionists have said they'd rather be piss poor in uk than be rich in a United Ireland. You can try and convince them until the cows come home, but they'll not even entertain the idea of even discussing it.

[marty34]

While I think the vast majority of people south of the border are in favour of a UI, most would be apprehensive of the inevitable consequences. The probability of a violent loyalist backlash has most of us very worried.
Right now we have major issues of our own, namely Health, Homelessness and Harris in no particular order.
If there should be a hard Brexit, there will be a renewal of hostilities along the border at the re-introduction of customs posts.
The cost of subsiding the people of NI to the tune of billions of euro annually for the foreseeable future is another mater folks down here won't welcome.
All in all, Marty & Co. should take nothing for granted about public sentiment down south.Maybe a good start would be for the Shinners to tone down their aggressive approach to the debate about unification.

Says the person who uses the terms 'issues of our own', 'folks down here' and 'down south'....very partitionist terminology indeed.

I see Charlie Flanagan on the politics show - pity the interviwer didn't ask him why he hasn't released the Crowley report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie.  It was at a border post.

The GAA, according to some on here, shouldn't get involved in politics but recently they voted to have the report released but Flanagan won't do it - I wonder why?  Oh that's right, he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties!

[Rossfan]

Marty34 does have a point. Nationalists were treated disgracefully in the north.

But this talk of a UI needs input from unionists about how it's going to work, blah blah... no amount of talking or money will ever ever make unionists want to be in a UI. The only way it's going to work is if there's a yes vote for a UI, then do it, and deal with the consequences (likely another Troubles era). As mad as that sounds, that's what will happen if there's a UI. If you're a nationalist but can't or don't want to deal with that consequence, then forget about ever living in a UI.

There will never be "the right time" for a UI, as far as unionists (and some nationalists) are concerned.

Even the lunatics in SF recognise that holding a unity referendum without an agreed plan for a United Ireland is crazy.

If you're waiting on unionists agreement on how a United Ireland might work, you'll be waiting a long long time.

Well sure we'll not bother then because you think so. It's the job for those on the unification side to make the case and convince people.
Remember the last time a referendum was held without an agreed way forward for different outcomes...

That's not what I meant.

Unionists have said they'd rather be piss poor in uk than be rich in a United Ireland. You can try and convince them until the cows come home, but they'll not even entertain the idea of even discussing it.

1 - The pro United Ireland parties need to lay out their vision of a UI.
2- They need to discuss and agree a preferred version
3- any Referendum in the 6 Cos will be decided by the non aligned segment of the population.
They plus of course soft nationalists are the ones that need convincing.
Unionists will of course vote against s UI as otherwise they wouldn't be Unionists.

[BennyCake]

Unionists vision of the north is not shared. They don't want or will agree on anything to do with Irish language, gaa etc. So, if you can't get them to agree to share this place, what hope do you have of them agreeing in a United Ireland?

As soon as you mention 'United Ireland', unionists don't want to know, no matter the benefits or rewards economically, financially or otherwise. It's a complete waste of time. Nationalists interests were not taken on board upon the creation of this god forsaken sectarian hellhole, nor in the decades that followed.

If you want a UI, get the 50%+1, then deal with the consequences. It ain't going to be pretty. But to get that 50+1, it's going to be very tricky. No matter the numbers in favour, a hell of a lot won't go for it because ultimately a lot of nationalists north and south will not want to live through another 4 decades of violence.

[TwoUpTwoDown]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

[five points]

As an aside, I wonder did any GAA clubs protest the Roscommon hospital closure issue when it was ongoing? That was a political decision not liked by the people of Roscommon, many I am sure were GAA people. Didnt the protest Marches even start at the Hyde?

I attended a Roscommon v Tyrone qualifier in the Hyde circa 2011, outside which there was a big protest about the hospital closure. I noted at the the time that the large Tyrone support at the game must have been bemused by it given the multiple hospital closures their own county had previously endured.

[BennyCake]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

Does the bully think there's a problem with what he's doing? No.

As far as unionists are concerned, nationalists in the north were never discriminated against or denied anything. They defend gerrymandering, collusion, internment etc etc. For them, NI works and always has done. Well, it did up until the GFA when they had to try and share with those pesky fenians. And look how that worked out.

[trailer]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

Does the bully think there's a problem with what he's doing? No.

As far as unionists are concerned, nationalists in the north were never discriminated against or denied anything. They defend gerrymandering, collusion, internment etc etc. For them, NI works and always has done. Well, it did up until the GFA when they had to try and share with those pesky fenians. And look how that worked out.

Yeah NI didn't work. But lets face it the Republic was a bit of a Rome shithole up until recently as well. Both failed.
Everything needs put on the table. From the NHS to flags and anthems and provincial assemblys etc. Then only when an agreed pathway is concluded should the people be asked to vote.
I also don't agree with this line that Unionists won't listen so lets just have the vote. Peter Robinson has recently said that Unionists need to engage on this issue. They're stanch but not stupid.

[Rossfan]

The new Irish Confederation (copyright me) Will have a new flag and anthem.
It will have 2 semi autonomous units (present 6 and 26 Cos).
6 Cos people will still be entitled to dual citizenship (for those who want it) as per the GFA.

[Lar Naparka]

While I think the vast majority of people south of the border are in favour of a UI, most would be apprehensive of the inevitable consequences. The probability of a violent loyalist backlash has most of us very worried.
Right now we have major issues of our own, namely Health, Homelessness and Harris in no particular order.
If there should be a hard Brexit, there will be a renewal of hostilities along the border at the re-introduction of customs posts.
The cost of subsiding the people of NI to the tune of billions of euro annually for the foreseeable future is another mater folks down here won't welcome.
All in all, Marty & Co. should take nothing for granted about public sentiment down south.Maybe a good start would be for the Shinners to tone down their aggressive approach to the debate about unification.

Says the person who uses the terms 'issues of our own', 'folks down here' and 'down south'....very partitionist terminology indeed.

I see Charlie Flanagan on the politics show - pity the interviwer didn't ask him why he hasn't released the Crowley report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie.  It was at a border post.

The GAA, according to some on here, shouldn't get involved in politics but recently they voted to have the report released but Flanagan won't do it - I wonder why?  Oh that's right, he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties!

<Sigh>
I see you still don't get the message so I'll spell it out for you.
The vast majority down here would be in favour of a UI. But we have enough problems of our own without having to put up with the antics of the lunatic fringe of SF.
If you and your ilk want to keep fighting the battle of the Boyne over and over again with the extreme loyalist mob who has as little time for compromise and dialogue as you have, them you can frig off and do your point scoring and coat trailing somewhere else.
It would appear that most of the Nationalist in NI are sensible people and know there is more to a UI than a mere majority of one in any referendum that might be held sometime in the future and  I, for one, would have no difficulty in welcoming them onboard.
It's the loolas fringe that concerns us down here. There's a serious possibility that there will be strong opposition from the loyalist faction as it is without you and your fellow-travellers stirring the shit for them.
I dunno why Charlie Flanagan didn't release any report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie and neither do you. It doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties.
You sort out your differences with themmuns first before you bring your problems down here.

[seafoid]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

The flag would have to recognise the 2 traditions. So it would have to have green and orange
With maybe white in between them

Sunningdale for really slow learners

[trueblue1234]

While I think the vast majority of people south of the border are in favour of a UI, most would be apprehensive of the inevitable consequences. The probability of a violent loyalist backlash has most of us very worried.
Right now we have major issues of our own, namely Health, Homelessness and Harris in no particular order.
If there should be a hard Brexit, there will be a renewal of hostilities along the border at the re-introduction of customs posts.
The cost of subsiding the people of NI to the tune of billions of euro annually for the foreseeable future is another mater folks down here won't welcome.
All in all, Marty & Co. should take nothing for granted about public sentiment down south.Maybe a good start would be for the Shinners to tone down their aggressive approach to the debate about unification.

Says the person who uses the terms 'issues of our own', 'folks down here' and 'down south'....very partitionist terminology indeed.

I see Charlie Flanagan on the politics show - pity the interviwer didn't ask him why he hasn't released the Crowley report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie.  It was at a border post.

The GAA, according to some on here, shouldn't get involved in politics but recently they voted to have the report released but Flanagan won't do it - I wonder why?  Oh that's right, he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties!

<Sigh>
I see you still don't get the message so I'll spell it out for you.
The vast majority down here would be in favour of a UI. But we have enough problems of our own without having to put up with the antics of the lunatic fringe of SF.
If you and your ilk want to keep fighting the battle of the Boyne over and over again with the extreme loyalist mob who has as little time for compromise and dialogue as you have, them you can frig off and do your point scoring and coat trailing somewhere else.
It would appear that most of the Nationalist in NI are sensible people and know there is more to a UI than a mere majority of one in any referendum that might be held sometime in the future and  I, for one, would have no difficulty in welcoming them onboard.
It's the loolas fringe that concerns us down here. There's a serious possibility that there will be strong opposition from the loyalist faction as it is without you and your fellow-travellers stirring the shit for them.
I dunno why Charlie Flanagan didn't release any report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie and neither do you. It doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties.
You sort out your differences with themmuns first before you bring your problems down here.

I'm sorry Lar but that post absolutely stinks of "I'm alright Jack". You think it's up to Nationalists in the North to engage with the Unionists/ Loyalists? Do you not think the South has a part to play there as well?

[Farrandeelin]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

The flag would have to recognise the 2 traditions. So it would have to have green and orange
With maybe white in between them

Sunningdale for really slow learners

Well said. Two traditions represented on the flag we have at the moment. Cue a member of the unionist tradition saying 'we don't want to be represented by a stripe on a flag' shit. Where's the nationalist representation on Evil Genius' flag?

[TwoUpTwoDown]

Every Irish man and woman knows the proper intent behind the Irish flag. But the point is that it is now seen as something completely different in Unionist communities. Surely we would have to be willing to adjust and adapt our national flag for the sake of Irish unity? I for one would have no problem if it made the transition easier for every individual on this island.

[Lar Naparka]

While I think the vast majority of people south of the border are in favour of a UI, most would be apprehensive of the inevitable consequences. The probability of a violent loyalist backlash has most of us very worried.
Right now we have major issues of our own, namely Health, Homelessness and Harris in no particular order.
If there should be a hard Brexit, there will be a renewal of hostilities along the border at the re-introduction of customs posts.
The cost of subsiding the people of NI to the tune of billions of euro annually for the foreseeable future is another mater folks down here won't welcome.
All in all, Marty & Co. should take nothing for granted about public sentiment down south. Maybe a good start would be for the Shinners to tone down their aggressive approach to the debate about unification.

Says the person who uses the terms 'issues of our own', 'folks down here' and 'down south'....very partitionist terminology indeed.

I see Charlie Flanagan on the politics show - pity the interviwer didn't ask him why he hasn't released the Crowley report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie.  It was at a border post.

The GAA, according to some on here, shouldn't get involved in politics but recently they voted to have the report released but Flanagan won't do it - I wonder why?  Oh that's right, he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties!

<Sigh>
I see you still don't get the message so I'll spell it out for you.
The vast majority down here would be in favour of a UI. But we have enough problems of our own without having to put up with the antics of the lunatic fringe of SF.
If you and your ilk want to keep fighting the battle of the Boyne over and over again with the extreme loyalist mob who has as little time for compromise and dialogue as you have, them you can frig off and do your point scoring and coat trailing somewhere else.
It would appear that most of the Nationalist in NI are sensible people and know there is more to a UI than a mere majority of one in any referendum that might be held sometime in the future and  I, for one, would have no difficulty in welcoming them onboard.
It's the loolas fringe that concerns us down here. There's a serious possibility that there will be strong opposition from the loyalist faction as it is without you and your fellow-travellers stirring the shit for them.
I dunno why Charlie Flanagan didn't release any report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie and neither do you. It doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties.
You sort out your differences with themmuns first before you bring your problems down here.

I'm sorry Lar but that post absolutely stinks of "I'm alright Jack". You think it's up to Nationalists in the North to engage with the Unionists/ Loyalists? Do you not think the South has a part to play there as well?

I do indeed and I thought I made that clear. Everybody north and south wlil have to accept that it will take a lot of compromise to get a UI to work. As I see it, that includes all of the shinners coming onboard and leaving their eyeballing the loyalists behind them. As I see it, there are plenty of rational, reasonable members of that party  that work hard for the common good as it is and I vote SF down here.
Mary Lou is gaining a lot of support down here, especially from the older women, believe it or not! They are putting it up to the traditional parties and good luck to them but please leave the headballs behind if and when a UI comes about!