Gaels amalgamations

Started by The Monument Road, December 02, 2016, 01:18:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Keyser Söze

Quote from: clonadmad on January 18, 2017, 08:34:47 PM
Quote from: Keyser Söze on January 18, 2017, 08:19:58 PM
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on January 18, 2017, 07:57:29 PM
I used to think certain amalgamations like Ballyfin and Mountmellick at juvenile level etc were a bit unseemly as they are in different parishes. Well 2017 is proving that same parish, neighbouring clubs etc means nothing when it comes to joining up. The county board loosened rules to allow players access to higher level. Its a good idea but needs regulation. TG4 used to have a Western season on saturday nights well Laois GAA are running their own cowboys and indians season for 2017. A pure farce.

I believe that CCC has the right to reject any proposed "merger" that it feels is not appropriate.

I presume this can be appealed as well.

No doubt there will some fun with regrading all juvenile amalgamations also,I expect to see the A grades packed for the coming year

Everything can be appealed. But surely those in charge taking a stance in the first regard has some place in our association.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

Neiska Man

#241
Quote from: clonadmad on January 18, 2017, 07:52:48 PM
I'm hearing that Ballinakill are taking in Slieve Margey and Ratheniska Juvenile  Hurlers and that Spink and Ratheniska are amalgamating at Juvenile Football level.
You hear wrong. With respect, I ask that you concentrate on your own matters and stop spreading rumors.

clonadmad

#242
Quote from: Neiska Man on January 18, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on January 18, 2017, 07:52:48 PM
I'm hearing that Ballinakill are taking in Slieve Margey and Ratheniska Juvenile  Hurlers and that Spink and Ratheniska are amalgamating at Juvenile Football level.
You hear wrong. With respect, I ask that you concentrate on your own matters and stop spreading rumors.

Which ones am I wrong with then?.

Are some of your hurling teams not playing with Ballinakill?,are some of your football teams not amalgamating with Spink?.

Maybe you can clear it up for us?.

INTJ

Hi surely there is a simple way to sort out all this gaels/transfer nonsense by introducing 4 divisional teams north, south, east and west made up of junior and intermediate players. Rule it now before the year kicks off properly that the bottom 4 teams + the winners of this years intermediate go into a 5 team group at the end of the season in which all teams play each other once with the winning team being promoted to senior and the rest to intermediate (should teams be level on points it goes to score difference, still level after tat teams get drawn from a hat and play off winner takes all) This serves 3 purposes 1: To reduce senior teams to 12, 2: the extra numbers in intermediate will increase the divisional team strength and 3: I creates a competitive atmosphere (which i think has been lost in Laois football for a long time).
Now 2018 would see the senior c/ship with 12 senior teams + 4 divisional, 4 groups of 4 with one divisional team in each group all teams playing  playing twice, top 2 teams go through to quarters etc, third place teams going into a shield semi final. This ensures all teams get a minimum of 7 games at senior for their players to be seen.
Relegation then divisional teams cant be relegated (this ensures all the counties top players are playing senior every year which is the why all the transfers/amalgamation are happening) and the lowest placed senior team plays off against intermediate winners.

The reason for all  the playoffs/senior relegation is to fuel competitiveness. There will then be only 12 "official" senior teams who have to battle every year to keep there name against a intermediate side thats chomping at the bit to move itself up a division. You have 4 large groups of individuals in the divisional that are out to prove why they deserve a chance to play senior football and a better prospect of playing county giving us a total of 240 of  our best players playing first team senior football. Senior teams will have to fight to keep their place and the intermediate championship will be properly competitive.
Thats just my take on it anyway, in my opinion it would create a more competitive platform, stop all this amalgamation/transfer crap and give all our best players a chance to prove themselves.

SCFC

Quote from: INTJ on January 19, 2017, 10:17:35 AM
Hi surely there is a simple way to sort out all this gaels/transfer nonsense by introducing 4 divisional teams north, south, east and west made up of junior and intermediate players. Rule it now before the year kicks off properly that the bottom 4 teams + the winners of this years intermediate go into a 5 team group at the end of the season in which all teams play each other once with the winning team being promoted to senior and the rest to intermediate (should teams be level on points it goes to score difference, still level after tat teams get drawn from a hat and play off winner takes all) This serves 3 purposes 1: To reduce senior teams to 12, 2: the extra numbers in intermediate will increase the divisional team strength and 3: I creates a competitive atmosphere (which i think has been lost in Laois football for a long time).
Now 2018 would see the senior c/ship with 12 senior teams + 4 divisional, 4 groups of 4 with one divisional team in each group all teams playing  playing twice, top 2 teams go through to quarters etc, third place teams going into a shield semi final. This ensures all teams get a minimum of 7 games at senior for their players to be seen.
Relegation then divisional teams cant be relegated (this ensures all the counties top players are playing senior every year which is the why all the transfers/amalgamation are happening) and the lowest placed senior team plays off against intermediate winners.

The reason for all  the playoffs/senior relegation is to fuel competitiveness. There will then be only 12 "official" senior teams who have to battle every year to keep there name against a intermediate side thats chomping at the bit to move itself up a division. You have 4 large groups of individuals in the divisional that are out to prove why they deserve a chance to play senior football and a better prospect of playing county giving us a total of 240 of  our best players playing first team senior football. Senior teams will have to fight to keep their place and the intermediate championship will be properly competitive.
Thats just my take on it anyway, in my opinion it would create a more competitive platform, stop all this amalgamation/transfer crap and give all our best players a chance to prove themselves.
That's actually a brilliant idea.
For 2018, they are relegating 8 teams to senior B football and it will mirror the hurling but that still won't solve what we'll call the "Donal Miller problem"!

Don Draper

Quote from: SCFC on January 19, 2017, 10:34:11 AM
Quote from: INTJ on January 19, 2017, 10:17:35 AM
Hi surely there is a simple way to sort out all this gaels/transfer nonsense by introducing 4 divisional teams north, south, east and west made up of junior and intermediate players. Rule it now before the year kicks off properly that the bottom 4 teams + the winners of this years intermediate go into a 5 team group at the end of the season in which all teams play each other once with the winning team being promoted to senior and the rest to intermediate (should teams be level on points it goes to score difference, still level after tat teams get drawn from a hat and play off winner takes all) This serves 3 purposes 1: To reduce senior teams to 12, 2: the extra numbers in intermediate will increase the divisional team strength and 3: I creates a competitive atmosphere (which i think has been lost in Laois football for a long time).
Now 2018 would see the senior c/ship with 12 senior teams + 4 divisional, 4 groups of 4 with one divisional team in each group all teams playing  playing twice, top 2 teams go through to quarters etc, third place teams going into a shield semi final. This ensures all teams get a minimum of 7 games at senior for their players to be seen.
Relegation then divisional teams cant be relegated (this ensures all the counties top players are playing senior every year which is the why all the transfers/amalgamation are happening) and the lowest placed senior team plays off against intermediate winners.

The reason for all  the playoffs/senior relegation is to fuel competitiveness. There will then be only 12 "official" senior teams who have to battle every year to keep there name against a intermediate side thats chomping at the bit to move itself up a division. You have 4 large groups of individuals in the divisional that are out to prove why they deserve a chance to play senior football and a better prospect of playing county giving us a total of 240 of  our best players playing first team senior football. Senior teams will have to fight to keep their place and the intermediate championship will be properly competitive.
Thats just my take on it anyway, in my opinion it would create a more competitive platform, stop all this amalgamation/transfer crap and give all our best players a chance to prove themselves.
That's actually a brilliant idea.
For 2018, they are relegating 8 teams to senior B football and it will mirror the hurling but that still won't solve what we'll call the "Donal Miller problem"!
I feel like I've made Donal a poster child for this, my apologies Donal.

And it is a brilliant idea. I would question the 7 games thing, it could lead to dead rubber, even with the spectre of relegation, but on the whole, it deserves to go forward for debate at club and county board level.

SCFC

Fair enough, from now it shall henceforth be known as the "Derek O'Connell issue".  ;)

Don Draper

Quote from: SCFC on January 19, 2017, 10:56:22 AM
Fair enough, from now it shall henceforth be known as the "Derek O'Connell issue".  ;)
Brian Keville?

Ballyroan Abbey

How would you split it considering that around the tipp/kilkenny borders there's virtually no football, and there is about 8 football clubs, 7 of which are senior lumped into one corner of the county, you could argue for a north/south split like they do in tipp for football but 4 is too much for the moment at least, as for the senior being split its a good thing i reckon long term, all you have to do is look at the hurling championship which hasnt had a back to back winner in 14/15 years, you will also be creating an unbelievably competitive intermediate championship(which is what it is seeing as the winners play leinster intermediate), ill take my own club as an example probably one of the best up and coming football teams in laois going by underage success etc. If westayed in the top 8 they will be exposed to the absolute top level in the county kind of a sink or swim thing, if they are in the new inter championship they are probably at a level closer to their own but they would have a real chance of winning something. What im saying in a roundabout way is that every club should now have a championship to aim for instead of 9/10 senior teams going through the motions

Ogie

Looks like the Ballinakill Slieve Bloom Gaels hurling is going ahead for senior, I think this is absolutely ridiculous, similar to the Trumera/Kyle last year these amalgamations have taken a bad turn,
Clubs with no connection, geographically or otherwise linking up so the likes of Ballinakill can use Ben Conroy or other clubs cherry picking players,
I also think it's a bad move for Ballinakill who are a very progressive club in their own right with a lot of development going on with their club grounds & their underage set up why get involved with this rubbish

clonadmad

#250
Quote from: Ballyroan Abbey on January 19, 2017, 11:10:24 AM
How would you split it considering that around the tipp/kilkenny borders there's virtually no football, and there is about 8 football clubs, 7 of which are senior lumped into one corner of the county, you could argue for a north/south split like they do in tipp for football but 4 is too much for the moment at least, as for the senior being split its a good thing i reckon long term, all you have to do is look at the hurling championship which hasnt had a back to back winner in 14/15 years, you will also be creating an unbelievably competitive intermediate championship(which is what it is seeing as the winners play leinster intermediate), ill take my own club as an example probably one of the best up and coming football teams in laois going by underage success etc. If westayed in the top 8 they will be exposed to the absolute top level in the county kind of a sink or swim thing, if they are in the new inter championship they are probably at a level closer to their own but they would have a real chance of winning something. What im saying in a roundabout way is that every club should now have a championship to aim for instead of 9/10 senior teams going through the motions

What they have done in Tipp is interesting in relation to football,Football would be strong to various degrees in the South,West and Mid Divisions,what they have done with the North which would be all Hurling is put in a 9 nine team amalgamation called Thomas McDonoghs which gives the likes of Philip Austin,George Hannigan and Kevin o Halloran the opportunity to play senior club football,when they would be playing junior A at best with their clubs.

From talking to a work colleague in Tipp,there was a strategic football plan put in place by the Tipp county board 15 years ago with the aim of Tipp winning an All Ireland by 2020,their 100th Anniversary of their last win,the county board over there drove that amalgamation and player pathways in the likes of the north division.

INTJ

#251
I actually wasn't considering Donal Miller in that it im my view he is one of the post dedicated and passionate annaghnough men there is was the other teams and players like Barrowhouse for example, I only recently read about the Daly talk and if a little club like that can lose the 2 kingstons and Daly it shows how well they are set up. If im not mistaken with them if they had all players available their team would consist of 2 kingstons, daly,  malone, (dont know first name) brennan, joe murphy and the twin chaps who would of all played minor or u21 and senoir for laois and i think the oldest being 28ish? I know you can still argue that only 3 of the 9 would of left but altogether that would be the bones of some outfit. They also used to have dom whelans son who was a great  talant that never had a chance to play above junior. If im not mistaken however he was a stand out performer for one of the american club teams recently so is obviously over there.

regarding the division dont think as north/s/e/w. think NE/SE/SW/NW google maps laois draw a rough line straight through portlaoise from just to the right of MM to just right of ballinakill to divide east west. then from roughly from athy to the N77 to divide NE and SE and from portlaoise straight across between mountrath and ballyfin. That would leave the hurling parts quite large with lots to draw from and football side smaller with more traditional clubs. for instance NE would then consist of annanough, O'D's, the rock, courtwood and emo and whoever else, SE would be barrowhouse park, timmahoe, spink an SW then would be ballynakill, durrow, rathdowny, errill borris, castletown and mountrath and NW rosenallis, kilcavan and dont forget bout senior teams coming down.

Anyway what im saying is a club like that and other clubs around should have the ability to let there players play senior ball in a proper format. We need our best players playing competitive HARD football. Its the county board that are confusing things by once again being to afraid/old fashioned to make changes and causing club officials all kinds of headaches just to be either shot down or made fun of.

also agrees with the 7 matches being to much, just make it one game each in the group that leaves a min of 4 games.

Intermediate and junior should also be restructured to accomodate these changes to make their championship more competitive. Firstly to avoid players playing eeach weekend for divisional and junior/intermediate teams play off junior c/ship between mid may and finish in july again same format as above in groups all teams play the same weekend  sunny weather good football. Thats 10 weeks to play 6 games max. Players that are out then have all august to go on holidays/EP and relax and the div teams holding onto players from august to end of c/chip.
The problem i feel with splitting the senior into 2 is that you still have 4 teams to many calling themselves senior.

TP Ashe

So clubs who invest in their juvenile clubs are going to be disadvantaged because other clubs can cobble together teams from the pick of available players; irregardless of parish rule or basic geographical logic?

Sounds like utter bull to me!

Over the last 20 years, we've had relatively small clubs (purely in terms of population) like Castletown and Clough/Ballacolla contest and win Senior championships.
Both clubs are probably pulling from primary school numbers of less than 200 kids total.

I get the 'Donal Miller' conundrum but I'm perplexed by this notion that the good of the Laois County Team should supersede the good of the basic club unit. The club is the lifeblood of the gaa. Penalising the clubs who are trying to do the right thing doesn't sit well with me.

Area teams have been welcome in the Palmer/Kelly Cup for years but there has been no uptake. Now, certain clubs and individuals are seeing their remaining chances of winning a championship ebbing away and amalgamations are seen as the answer.

I'm not sure this is a positive development. I have no problem with parish teams a la Raheen Parish Gaels, The Harps, Borris/Kilcotton etc but this Ballinakill/Slieve Bloom amalgamation is ridiculous.

Don Draper

Quote from: TP Ashe on January 19, 2017, 12:32:48 PM
Area teams have been welcome in the Palmer/Kelly Cup for years but there has been no uptake. Now, certain clubs and individuals are seeing their remaining chances of winning a championship ebbing away and amalgamations are seen as the answer.
No one gives a flying fup about the Palmer and Kelly Cups. Offering area teams spaces in them was lip service.

People assume area teams will walk the competition are way off the mark as well.

Ballyroan Abbey

Intermediate and junior should also be restructured to accomodate these changes to make their championship more competitive. Firstly to avoid players playing eeach weekend for divisional and junior/intermediate teams play off junior c/ship between mid may and finish in july again same format as above in groups all teams play the same weekend  sunny weather good football. Thats 10 weeks to play 6 games max. Players that are out then have all august to go on holidays/EP and relax and the div teams holding onto players from august to end of c/chip
[/quote]

Not half insulting to junior players, just f**k them out of the way thats your solution basically, there would also be the issue of senior teams leaving their better lads off the 17 so they could go win a junior championship, if you pick out a weekend llets say have senior matches on a friday, senior b and inter matches on a sqturday and junior games on a sunday, you could maybe pick out the marquee game from each grade and play them in o'moore park to keep it active and play the rest of the games elsewhere, theres enough high quality club grounds to cater senior clubs(ex make more sense to have st josephs vs graigue in crettyard or ballyroan vs o'dempseys in stradbally/portarlington), for the senior the junior b and c usually start early july and is played midweek so there should be an issue with them