The IRISH RUGBY thread

[weareros]

Majority Eng, but foreign is foreign.

That's just not true at all.

Most of those are incomparable to, say, the case with Ali or Kleyn who have been pure project players.

George North's mother is Welsh and he's lived in Wales since he was a kid. He speaks frigging Welsh. He's Welsh in a way our lads will never be Irish. Not the same at all.

And Parkes who scored one of their tries against the Aussies, how do you classify him? A New Zealander or Welshman?

He's clearly a kiwi. This isn't difficult, I don't know why you're struggling so much.

Not struggling. My original point is that all the 5 nations teams are filled to gills with foreigners and as such the game is now a sham. Wales won a game today thanks to a try from a player that should be illegal in normal circumstances. And as such it is a worthless victory. Don't care if one of them grew up in Wales and can speak Welsh. Looking at the link above is enough to prove my point.

[seafoid]

Ireland at the RWC

1991 vs Australia QF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoX4zkNUGsM

1995 v France QF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ--6S2o9Zk

1999 v Argentina Lens Group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ86PiVp8rg

2003 v France QF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLt6fA8_27Q

2007 vs Argentina Group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whIg69g6MIk

2011 vs Wales QF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1jB0460nJE

2015 vs Argentina QF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESjMQPcvFY

A very sad record
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwxga8udIio

[Baile Brigín 2]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

[Dinny Breen]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

[Crete Boom]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

I know we are not the biggest rugby heads here out west but I think we can tell the difference between a few 16 year old lads from Kildare that go to Clongowes and South Africans!!!

[AZOffaly]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

I know we are not the biggest rugby heads here out west but I think we can tell the difference between a few 16 year old lads from Kildare that go to Clongowes and South Africans!!!

Bit of false equivalence going on here if you are equating George North with CJ Stander.  My views on international qualification are long held, and I think I said it here before. For example, I am a massive fan of CJ, and he has immersed himself in the Munster and Ireland culture, and into his local community in Castleconnell, but he's not Irish. He has no ties to Ireland other than the time he has spent here playing Professional Rugby.

I have no problem with someone with genuine Irish ties playing for Ireland, soccer, rugby or anything else. As a nation of emigrants, I think it's churlish to say that someone like Mick McCarthy is not Irish. If you have Irish familial ties, and you are brought up with a genuine sense of Irish identity, and hold an Irish passport, then I think you are Irish. Same for the equivalent Welsh, Scots and everyone else. I'd have no issue with Mike Haley playing for Ireland, and obviously lads like Ronan O'Gara and Jamie Heaslip.

But you can't tell me that Jean Kleyn is, or feels, Irish. The 5 year rule is an improvement, but it's still effectively a 'Rugby Union Representative Team' as opposed to a National representative team. It's not #teamofus it's #teamofirfuaffiliatedprofessionalplayers.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

Why?

[screenexile]

At least the Tongans are definitely muck so we should be able to get our 2 bonus points from the next 2 games.

[AZOffaly]

At least the Tongans are definitely muck so we should be able to get our 2 bonus points from the next 2 games.

Samoa are filthy.

[seafoid]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

I know we are not the biggest rugby heads here out west but I think we can tell the difference between a few 16 year old lads from Kildare that go to Clongowes and South Africans!!!

Yis

[screenexile]

At least the Tongans are definitely muck so we should be able to get our 2 bonus points from the next 2 games.

Samoa are filthy.

Yes Samoa as well... need to pay more attention!

[Dinny Breen]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

Why?

It's not true. Show me where you read it.

[Main Street]

I would say this issue would be more relevant to soccer than rugby

I'm nor sure. Soccer requires a passport plus certain criteria. Rugby requires residency for 5 years.

I read Connacht have a group of 16 year olds in boarding school. At 21 they are eligible to play for Ireland (and SA if course). Soccer can't simply do that.

Its an issue, and while the bigger kids are doing it, so will we.

Ha! Ha! Quite possibly one the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this board in a while.

I know we are not the biggest rugby heads here out west but I think we can tell the difference between a few 16 year old lads from Kildare that go to Clongowes and South Africans!!!

Bit of false equivalence going on here if you are equating George North with CJ Stander.  My views on international qualification are long held, and I think I said it here before. For example, I am a massive fan of CJ, and he has immersed himself in the Munster and Ireland culture, and into his local community in Castleconnell, but he's not Irish. He has no ties to Ireland other than the time he has spent here playing Professional Rugby.

I have no problem with someone with genuine Irish ties playing for Ireland, soccer, rugby or anything else. As a nation of emigrants, I think it's churlish to say that someone like Mick McCarthy is not Irish. If you have Irish familial ties, and you are brought up with a genuine sense of Irish identity, and hold an Irish passport, then I think you are Irish. Same for the equivalent Welsh, Scots and everyone else. I'd have no issue with Mike Haley playing for Ireland, and obviously lads like Ronan O'Gara and Jamie Heaslip.

But you can't tell me that Jean Kleyn is, or feels, Irish. The 5 year rule is an improvement, but it's still effectively a 'Rugby Union Representative Team' as opposed to a National representative team. It's not #teamofus it's #teamofirfuaffiliatedprofessionalplayers.

You wouldn't concede that CJ has become at least 30% Irish?   Cj had not played international senior level for SA. Do you not regard the new nationals as bona fide Irish nationals? That someone who has resided here for 3 to 5 years is not entitled to become an Irish citizen and entitled to the benefits of an Irish citizen in all applicable spheres of Irish society? Is there still a sense of a them and us? That there is no way on earth that he/she is part of the real Irish? is there a 5 year or 10 year or a  20 year barrier to becoming a "one of us"?  Accent? If CJ acquired a Munster accent, would that help his claim to be regarded as one of us?

Increasingly I hear about this "team of us". Who are  the"us"?  Are the "us" supposed to be the real Irish or the arbiters of who is a real Irish?
What's the criteria for being one of the "us"?
Is Mick McCarthy one of us?  of course Mick passes the "team of us" test.  What about John Aldridge? he had a very slim distant connection with Ireland at the time of his declaration, never would have passed any  "team of us" test  but is he regarded as being "one of us" now? Would you like to tell John face to face that he's not one us?
Like John, most all  3rd generation foreign born have the right to become an Irish citizen (the unique one granny rule). Are they a part of the "team of us" diaspora?
Is there not a classification that John could fall under , a he's a "one of us - in progress"? that given a bit of time and possibly learn how to play a bit of  gaelic, he'll become a bona fide  "one of us"?

So what should we have, objective criteria for international eligibility based on best practice and based upon individual players legal rights.
or an international eligibility criteria  subjectively based upon who the "team of us " approve as being Irish enough?

[Baile Brigín 2]

Aquiring a passport and citizenship might be a start.

[Hound]

Still reckon we'll top the group.
So long at it's not too hot/humid, Japan style of play will actually suit the Scots.

Managing Sexton is key. Him being fit for the QF is more important than who we face. I'd play him against Russia, to get gametime under the belt, but leave him out for Samoa - not worth risking injury against those hoors! Let Carberry have that start, with an otherwise full team. Murray really needs to step up his leadership when Sexton's not there. Of all the disappointing performances on Saturday, he was the biggest disappointment.

My outlandish prediction for the QF is that Ringrose starts on the wing. (Assuming we've two other fit centres!). Two of Farrell, Aki, Henshaw to start. Between Larmour and Earls for the bench place, most likely Earls.
Jordi Murphy might not be far away from the team either, if he has the impact I expect him to have.