Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[cuconnacht]

McGuinness should be every bit as lauded for his role in taking the war to the Brits in a time it needed to happen as much as his role in bringing the conflict to an end and making the peace process work.

A courageous and selfless man.

+100
The point of the sword in battle when battle was needed
And a peace that never looked possible to anyone ever.
Great son of Derry and a fine son of of his country when no one showed.
RIP .

[johnneycool]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

Every time you hear any mealy mouthing from the British Establishment (including the first ever RC prime minister) ask yourself how many innocents have been blown to smithereens, in the two decades since the IRA ceasefire, in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen and marvel at the hypocrisy.

History will judge Martin kindly. RIP

Does anyone seriously think that any of Thatchers crew would speak favourably of Martin McGuinness? The Provos were responsible for terrible atrocities but at least when the opportunity arose they moved on. The Tories havent but would abandon the Unionists in the morning if it suited Little England

I always find it laughable to hear Tebbit and the likes talking about cowards when the real cowards sit in Whitehall sending some other poor sods son's to do their dirty work here and around the globe.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Some wonderful commentary from Denis Bradley there.

Calling out some of the revisionist bullshit that the detractors will try and spread.

[foxcommander]

Some wonderful commentary from Denis Bradley there.

Calling out some of the revisionist bullshit that the detractors will try and spread.

RTE got to work early on it bringing up events that happened in Derry over the years. Couldn't help themselves.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0321/861288-martin-mcguinness-obituary/

[Il Bomber Destro]

Some wonderful commentary from Denis Bradley there.

Calling out some of the revisionist bullshit that the detractors will try and spread.

RTE got to work early on it bringing up events that happened in Derry over the years. Couldn't help themselves.

Giving Nesbitt a pulpit to pedal his bile here.

[macdanger2]

RIP.

Having not lived in the north in the 60s and 70s, I certainly couldn't judge him. For me anyway, he has a lot more in the positives column than the negatives column.

[6th sam]

A genuine, charismatic, principled leader. As a nationalist in Derry, He was on the receiving  end of appalling injustice at the hands of unionism and the British state , and he took a path which many young Catholics felt they had no option but to take at the time .
The narrative still promoted by unionists and Tory Britain , and even among some in the 26 counties , that the conflict here was entirely the responsibility of one side, remains the single biggest barrier to progress here.
Nobody expects unionism, tory Britain, or their apologists here , to forget or forgive the IRA campaign but until we get a magnanimous leader of "greater unionism" in the mould of Martin mcguinness  to recognise their contributions to the conflict , we will never move on.
In my view , no politician in Ireland has done more for the peace process than Martin, and his contribution has been recognised today from many unlikely sources. The warmth of his personality , his Christian values and his genuine respect and empathy for unionists, have brought us a long way. I hope his legacy will be that in a "united Ireland" (which is inevitable in some form) , those from the British tradition will enjoy the respect , equality, and empathy that northern nationalists still don't fully enjoy. Go raibh Maith agat , a Mháirtín, Agus Go ndéana Dia trócaire ar do anam dílis

[stew]

I dont understand why people talk ill of the dead, when Thatcher died many people went wild with happiness at the death of a frail old woman, I detested her in life but felt nothing like happiness at her death, I felt nothing at all actually, the last thing I would do would be to badmouth someone who just died yet facebook has the haters out in full force, bad craic to be at, I had no time for Martin but I respect the work he did to stop the killing in this neck of the woods.

RIP Martin.

As someone who grew up in it stew, do you think he was justified in his hardline pursuit of war?

It's easy for us from the south (I grew up a few miles from the border, as the crow flies - might as well have been 50) to condemn and disapprove, but we didn't grow up in a unionist security state with the British army and loyalists thrown into the mix.

Was the current day resolution only achievable as a result of the Troubles, or inevitable in Western Europe? If it was inevitable, was that foreseeable (I'd say probably not, if even Sunningdale was rejected by Paisley and the unionists/loyalists).

Can we celebrate 1916 and 1919-20 and our ancestors roles in it while being horrified by what the modernIRA did, just because  the horror of the murder and callousness was observable  in real time and not romanticized?

Always a dilemma, at least for me.

RIP Martin.

To me the IRA were a necessary evil, we were being treated like shite by arrogant british bastards and they pushed the nationalists too far, I hated the way they made you feel, when I was seven we were burnt out of our home in portadown by loyalist scum, in 1997 there was a device set that blew up my parents downstairs in Lonsdale Villas in Armagh, my mother insisted both times they the family move house, much to my fathers chagrin!

Something had to be done, I just wish they had hit military and government  buildings instead of blowing up butchers shops and ordinary Protestants going to work in a mini van etc, they did a brilliant job of keeping drugs off the streets but yet you would go to a gaelic match and they would have vermin collecting money for the prisoners wives and they would slabber at you if you walked on by.

McGuinness to me was a bad bastard until he forged, along with Paisley and co the relative peace we enjoy today, I respect the hell out of him for that but I also remember he was a butcher, he was enigmatic bastard thats for sure and like yourself I am vexed by the RA and MMG.

[joemamas]

I dont understand why people talk ill of the dead, when Thatcher died many people went wild with happiness at the death of a frail old woman, I detested her in life but felt nothing like happiness at her death, I felt nothing at all actually, the last thing I would do would be to badmouth someone who just died yet facebook has the haters out in full force, bad craic to be at, I had no time for Martin but I respect the work he did to stop the killing in this neck of the woods.

RIP Martin.

As someone who grew up in it stew, do you think he was justified in his hardline pursuit of war?

It's easy for us from the south (I grew up a few miles from the border, as the crow flies - might as well have been 50) to condemn and disapprove, but we didn't grow up in a unionist security state with the British army and loyalists thrown into the mix.

Was the current day resolution only achievable as a result of the Troubles, or inevitable in Western Europe? If it was inevitable, was that foreseeable (I'd say probably not, if even Sunningdale was rejected by Paisley and the unionists/loyalists).

Can we celebrate 1916 and 1919-20 and our ancestors roles in it while being horrified by what the modernIRA did, just because  the horror of the murder and callousness was observable  in real time and not romanticized?

Always a dilemma, at least for me.

RIP Martin.

To me the IRA were a necessary evil, we were being treated like shite by arrogant british b**tards and they pushed the nationalists too far, I hated the way they made you feel, when I was seven we were burnt out of our home in portadown by loyalist scum, in 1997 there was a device set that blew up my parents downstairs in Lonsdale Villas in Armagh, my mother insisted both times they the family move house, much to my fathers chagrin!

Something had to be done, I just wish they had hit military and government  buildings instead of blowing up butchers shops and ordinary Protestants going to work in a mini van etc, they did a brilliant job of keeping drugs off the streets but yet you would go to a gaelic match and they would have vermin collecting money for the prisoners wives and they would slabber at you if you walked on by.

McGuinness to me was a bad b**tard until he forged, along with Paisley and co the relative peace we enjoy today, I respect the hell out of him for that but I also remember he was a butcher, he was enigmatic b**tard thats for sure and like yourself I am vexed by the RA and MMG.

Incredible post, while I was 17 living in the west of Ireland when the hunger strikes occurred and was very aware what was going on a day to day basis,  I cannot not imagine how I would have reacted in the same circumstances how you managed not to have a way more biased view is a testament to you.

As mentioned earlier, he most likely had no choice but to be dragged into it.

I also have a feeling that history will judge him.

[MoChara]

I've plenty of my own faults with McGuinness and Sinn Fein, but I find it laughable how the media are trying to portray McGuinness as having tried to atone for his sins in the IRA with his good work in the Peace Process. I've never read McGuinness ever say he was ashamed of his past or that he was trying to make up for it, and why would he, the IRA did some horrible things for sure but it was a war and an entirely legitimate one at that

[JohnDenver]

Just in relation to Tebbitt, I saw this doing the rounds on twitter

[Applesisapples]

It is striking how many on the Unionist and victims side portray the conflict here as being solely the fault of the IRA and hence Martin McGuinness. It would appear that you can only be a victim if it was at the hands of the IRA.

[johnneycool]

It is striking how many on the Unionist and victims side portray the conflict here as being solely the fault of the IRA and hence Martin McGuinness. It would appear that you can only be a victim if it was at the hands of the IRA.

Brian Feeney touched on that last night on The View last night on why did he believe Martin McGuinness never apologised with Jeffrey believing that McGuinness should have. Feeneys thoughts were entirely right in that Martin McGuinness didn't believe he did anything wrong and an apology was never going to be forthcoming and then came the sting from Feeney when he said Unionists have never felt the need to apologise for the 50 or 60 years of systematic sectarian government ( I can't be sure of the exact words, but that was the jist of it).

[Farrandeelin]

I see Arlene is undecided whether or not she's attending the funeral...

[theskull1]

It is striking how many on the Unionist and victims side portray the conflict here as being solely the fault of the IRA and hence Martin McGuinness. It would appear that you can only be a victim if it was at the hands of the IRA.

Brian Feeney touched on that last night on The View last night on why did he believe Martin McGuinness never apologised with Jeffrey believing that McGuinness should have. Feeneys thoughts were entirely right in that Martin McGuinness didn't believe he did anything wrong and an apology was never going to be forthcoming and then came the sting from Feeney when he said Unionists have never felt the need to apologise for the 50 or 60 years of systematic sectarian government ( I can't be sure of the exact words, but that was the jist of it).

This is thee one thing that stood out for me yesterday..... and in my life time I've never once heard a unionist leader acknowledge the role that their sectarian governance of this wee country in conjunction with state forces had on the bringing about of the troubles.  Always wonder why there's not more on the history of Northern Ireland 1920's to 1970 researched and discussed in a public arena?  That might allow this revisionist perspective to be rubbished and possibly open the minds of a unionist population who are blind to the truth of it.