Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[J70]

I dont understand why people talk ill of the dead, when Thatcher died many people went wild with happiness at the death of a frail old woman, I detested her in life but felt nothing like happiness at her death, I felt nothing at all actually, the last thing I would do would be to badmouth someone who just died yet facebook has the haters out in full force, bad craic to be at, I had no time for Martin but I respect the work he did to stop the killing in this neck of the woods.

RIP Martin.

As someone who grew up in it stew, do you think he was justified in his hardline pursuit of war?

It's easy for us from the south (I grew up a few miles from the border, as the crow flies - might as well have been 50) to condemn and disapprove, but we didn't grow up in a unionist security state with the British army and loyalists thrown into the mix.

Was the current day resolution only achievable as a result of the Troubles, or inevitable in Western Europe? If it was inevitable, was that foreseeable (I'd say probably not, if even Sunningdale was rejected by Paisley and the unionists/loyalists).

Can we celebrate 1916 and 1919-20 and our ancestors roles in it while being horrified by what the modernIRA did, just because  the horror of the murder and callousness was observable  in real time and not romanticized?

Always a dilemma, at least for me.

RIP Martin.

[seafoid]

Eilis 2 is going to do something very decent

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/martin-mcguinness-death-queen-to-send-private-message-to-family-of-former-deputy-first-minister-1.3018556

[Puckoon]

As iconic a figure as I've known in my lifetime. The complexities could take a lifetime to understand. In the end, I'm grateful he was a part of the process


RIP Martin McGuinness.

[seafoid]

Financial Times

McGuinness became deputy first minister and its most effective and thoughtful political leader as Northern Ireland emerged from three decades of strife to experience a fragile but enduring peace.

[Applesisapples]

I will reprint below an earlier post of mine, it says exactly what I need to say about him and the experiences of my generation.

I can only surmise that those on here who are being disingenuous with their views on McGuinness, fall into two categories, they either are 40 and under in age or live in the south. Anyone of my generation and older will only too readily remember what it was like growing up in the Protestant state. I could what about all day on nationalist grievances, my experience in work and on the streets and the actions of our fellow countrymen. But I won't. Martin McGuinness got embroiled in the troubles and the IRA because of his experiences. The history is there go read it. In fact those of you who want to objectively view the northern state and the cause of the troubles should go read Bonfires on the Hillsides by James Kelly. The best history of the North to be written. I personally could never pick up arms, but many like McGuinness did so out of frustration and a sense injustice. Am I condoning the atrocities ... absolutely not, but they need to be viewed in context. The SDLP and John Hume great man as he is could not have delivered the GFA or the peace process with out the IRA's actions, Unionists simply would not have moved, if you believe otherwise then you are a fool. There was much done on both sides and we thankfully have moved beyond that. You don't have to like Martin mcGuinness to acknowledge his contribution in delivering the North to where we are now. He has continuously stretched himself and nationalism in attempts to reach accommodation with political unionism only to be thwarted by intransigence. Unlike some he has never denied his past or sought to hide behind red hats or shotgun licences.

[AhNowRef]

I will reprint below an earlier post of mine, it says exactly what I need to say about him and the experiences of my generation.

I can only surmise that those on here who are being disingenuous with their views on McGuinness, fall into two categories, they either are 40 and under in age or live in the south. Anyone of my generation and older will only too readily remember what it was like growing up in the Protestant state. I could what about all day on nationalist grievances, my experience in work and on the streets and the actions of our fellow countrymen. But I won't. Martin McGuinness got embroiled in the troubles and the IRA because of his experiences. The history is there go read it. In fact those of you who want to objectively view the northern state and the cause of the troubles should go read Bonfires on the Hillsides by James Kelly. The best history of the North to be written. I personally could never pick up arms, but many like McGuinness did so out of frustration and a sense injustice. Am I condoning the atrocities ... absolutely not, but they need to be viewed in context. The SDLP and John Hume great man as he is could not have delivered the GFA or the peace process with out the IRA's actions, Unionists simply would not have moved, if you believe otherwise then you are a fool. There was much done on both sides and we thankfully have moved beyond that. You don't have to like Martin mcGuinness to acknowledge his contribution in delivering the North to where we are now. He has continuously stretched himself and nationalism in attempts to reach accommodation with political unionism only to be thwarted by intransigence. Unlike some he has never denied his past or sought to hide behind red hats or shotgun licences.

This is it in a nutshell unfortunately ... Your post just about sums up exactly my own situation & views and those of many more besides...

The bit I highlighted is the crux of it ... and their intransigence of late just exemplifies this ..

I never voted SF until the peace process came into being and I honestly believe Martin McGuiness did all he could to create and maintain it..  I just wish there was someone like him in Unionism..

[magpie seanie]

RIP Martin.
If it wasn't for Unionist bigotry, intolerance and discrimination and suppression most of us would never had heard of him.
He still had to confront that mindset right at the end when Foster came along and tried to turn the clock back 60 years.
Slán a mhac.

Excellent post and I agree entirely. I had the pleasure of meeting him in my college days when I couldn't hear his voice on TV. Think the debate was about removing that part of the broadcasting act. He impressed me that evening.....safe to say I was right in what I thought about him afterwards. A true leader.

RIP Martin.

[passedit]

I will reprint below an earlier post of mine, it says exactly what I need to say about him and the experiences of my generation.

I can only surmise that those on here who are being disingenuous with their views on McGuinness, fall into two categories, they either are 40 and under in age or live in the south. Anyone of my generation and older will only too readily remember what it was like growing up in the Protestant state. I could what about all day on nationalist grievances, my experience in work and on the streets and the actions of our fellow countrymen. But I won't. Martin McGuinness got embroiled in the troubles and the IRA because of his experiences. The history is there go read it. In fact those of you who want to objectively view the northern state and the cause of the troubles should go read Bonfires on the Hillsides by James Kelly. The best history of the North to be written. I personally could never pick up arms, but many like McGuinness did so out of frustration and a sense injustice. Am I condoning the atrocities ... absolutely not, but they need to be viewed in context. The SDLP and John Hume great man as he is could not have delivered the GFA or the peace process with out the IRA's actions, Unionists simply would not have moved, if you believe otherwise then you are a fool. There was much done on both sides and we thankfully have moved beyond that. You don't have to like Martin mcGuinness to acknowledge his contribution in delivering the North to where we are now. He has continuously stretched himself and nationalism in attempts to reach accommodation with political unionism only to be thwarted by intransigence. Unlike some he has never denied his past or sought to hide behind red hats or shotgun licences.

Well said Apples, I see Adams quoted as saying Martin didn't go to war the war came to him. A good few Unionists stepping up to the plate today which gives some hope.

[passedit]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

Every time you hear any mealy mouthing from the British Establishment (including the first ever RC prime minister) ask yourself how many innocents have been blown to smithereens, in the two decades since the IRA ceasefire, in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen and marvel at the hypocrisy.

History will judge Martin kindly. RIP

[seafoid]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

Every time you hear any mealy mouthing from the British Establishment (including the first ever RC prime minister) ask yourself how many innocents have been blown to smithereens, in the two decades since the IRA ceasefire, in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen and marvel at the hypocrisy.

History will judge Martin kindly. RIP

May said she could not condone stuff he did but she voted for Iraq

[Avondhu star]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

Every time you hear any mealy mouthing from the British Establishment (including the first ever RC prime minister) ask yourself how many innocents have been blown to smithereens, in the two decades since the IRA ceasefire, in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen and marvel at the hypocrisy.

History will judge Martin kindly. RIP

Does anyone seriously think that any of Thatchers crew would speak favourably of Martin McGuinness? The Provos were responsible for terrible atrocities but at least when the opportunity arose they moved on. The Tories havent but would abandon the Unionists in the morning if it suited Little England

[seafoid]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/21/martin-mcguinness-obituary

Unlike Adams, McGuinness did not come from a republican background, but grew up in a city where gerrymandering meant that Protestants always controlled the city council, even though Catholics were the majority population. Indeed, he said that when the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association (NICRA) began campaigning for equal rights, he saw no point in joining.
He failed his 11 plus, and on leaving the Christian Brothers' technical college he was turned down for a job as a car mechanic because he was a Catholic. He accepted the inevitable and sought a job open to Catholics. The fact that he became a butcher's assistant was used mockingly against him during the Troubles. The baton attack on Fitt "outraged" him into politics.

[seafoid]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

Every time you hear any mealy mouthing from the British Establishment (including the first ever RC prime minister) ask yourself how many innocents have been blown to smithereens, in the two decades since the IRA ceasefire, in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Yemen and marvel at the hypocrisy.

History will judge Martin kindly. RIP

Does anyone seriously think that any of Thatchers crew would speak favourably of Martin McGuinness? The Provos were responsible for terrible atrocities but at least when the opportunity arose they moved on. The Tories havent but would abandon the Unionists in the morning if it suited Little England

It's interesting to compare the reactions of Tories and Labour politicians

[Il Bomber Destro]

McGuinness should be every bit as lauded for his role in taking the war to the Brits in a time it needed to happen as much as his role in bringing the conflict to an end and making the peace process work.

A courageous and selfless man.

[Mayo4Sam]

I will reprint below an earlier post of mine, it says exactly what I need to say about him and the experiences of my generation.

I can only surmise that those on here who are being disingenuous with their views on McGuinness, fall into two categories, they either are 40 and under in age or live in the south. Anyone of my generation and older will only too readily remember what it was like growing up in the Protestant state. I could what about all day on nationalist grievances, my experience in work and on the streets and the actions of our fellow countrymen. But I won't. Martin McGuinness got embroiled in the troubles and the IRA because of his experiences. The history is there go read it. In fact those of you who want to objectively view the northern state and the cause of the troubles should go read Bonfires on the Hillsides by James Kelly. The best history of the North to be written. I personally could never pick up arms, but many like McGuinness did so out of frustration and a sense injustice. Am I condoning the atrocities ... absolutely not, but they need to be viewed in context. The SDLP and John Hume great man as he is could not have delivered the GFA or the peace process with out the IRA's actions, Unionists simply would not have moved, if you believe otherwise then you are a fool. There was much done on both sides and we thankfully have moved beyond that. You don't have to like Martin mcGuinness to acknowledge his contribution in delivering the North to where we are now. He has continuously stretched himself and nationalism in attempts to reach accommodation with political unionism only to be thwarted by intransigence. Unlike some he has never denied his past or sought to hide behind red hats or shotgun licences.

This is it in a nutshell unfortunately ... Your post just about sums up exactly my own situation & views and those of many more besides...

The bit I highlighted is the crux of it ... and their intransigence of late just exemplifies this ..

I never voted SF until the peace process came into being and I honestly believe Martin McGuiness did all he could to create and maintain it..  I just wish there was someone like him in Unionism..

RIP Martin, always came across as a true gentleman and sincere, it seems obvious from this end that things wouldn't have happened without him and he brought a lot of people along with him that wouldn't have gone without him.
But I would say the same for Trimble (who eventually paid for it with his political career) and later Ian Paisley.

You can see from Ian Paisley Jr comments that there was a genuine respect for Martin McGuinness

http://www.thejournal.ie/ian-paisley-jr-thank-you-3195631-Jan2017/
http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/01/20/news/ian-paisley-jnr-pays-generous-tribute-to-martin-mcguinness-894950/ - video on this one