The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Puckoon]

Not shedding any tears and reveling in it are 2 different positions. At least in my world.

[Eamonnca1]

Your mask is slipping there Eamonn.

An individual CEO is not to blame for the rot that is corporate America. Man has family and heading up a poisonous corporation in a poisonous culture is no reason to be executed on the street.

Those memes, as relatable as they may be - are low brow.

"My" mask? I'm just reporting what people are saying. I never made a statement one way or another about whether I'm in favour of what happened. I just think it's interesting that income and wealth inequality has now surpassed what it was in France when the guillotines came out, and all sorts of extreme behaviour that would have been unthinkable before is becoming normal.

[Puckoon]

I dunno Puckoon.

I wouldn't shed a tear when a drug dealer is slain. He has chosen a life where his money is made out of making other people's lives worse. And even though one man's death will not fix the system, at least it might deter some others.

I kind of feel the same about this killing.

Existential question for you then to pass the time.

I work in the pharmaceutical development industry, my company was actively involved in the development of the Covid vaccines (for all the companies that developed them, Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J).

Does that make my execution acceptable? Does anyone who works for United Healthcare  have a legitimate target on their back?

Did he choose this life or tumble into it? Is your moral compass so erect that you would refuse a promotion to CEO level?

[J70]

How is MAGA world taking it?

I saw an interview with Bannon recently where he said that he tells his billionaire pals that if they don't soon start paying their fair dues in terms of taxes and so on, that there will be a French Revolution style revolt in the US.

Which obviously puts him at odds with the likes of Trump whose only intention towards the rich is to lighten their "load" even further.

On the wider point, I agree with everything Puckoon said on this assassination.

[Milltown Row2]

How is MAGA world taking it?

I saw an interview with Bannon recently where he said that he tells his billionaire pals that if they don't soon start paying their fair dues in terms of taxes and so on, that there will be a French Revolution style revolt in the US.

Which obviously puts him at odds with the likes of Trump whose only intention towards the rich is to lighten their "load" even further.

On the wider point, I agree with everything Puckoon said on this assassination.

The one percenters refused to pay the last owner of America, it also led to a revolution

[Armagh18]

I dunno Puckoon.

I wouldn't shed a tear when a drug dealer is slain. He has chosen a life where his money is made out of making other people's lives worse. And even though one man's death will not fix the system, at least it might deter some others.

I kind of feel the same about this killing.

Hard to disagree there. I'd far sooner shed a tear for the countless families bankrupted simply because they couldnt afford to get ill.

[thewobbler]

I dunno Puckoon.

I wouldn't shed a tear when a drug dealer is slain. He has chosen a life where his money is made out of making other people's lives worse. And even though one man's death will not fix the system, at least it might deter some others.

I kind of feel the same about this killing.

Existential question for you then to pass the time.

I work in the pharmaceutical development industry, my company was actively involved in the development of the Covid vaccines (for all the companies that developed them, Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J).

Does that make my execution acceptable? Does anyone who works for United Healthcare  have a legitimate target on their back?

Did he choose this life or tumble into it? Is your moral compass so erect that you would refuse a promotion to CEO level?

Honest answer? I don't know. The world is complicated. My moral compass is neither fixed to a point nor in a straight line. I long ago gave up on concept of black and white. Everything is grey.

But (and I hate using this term so frequently as I might come across as a political zealot, and that would make me very uncomfortable), neoliberalism (or at least my understanding of it) is destroying the western world. And the absolute heart of it (in my understanding) is unchecked pursuit of financial/material surplus above all else.

The moral compass I have does have some fundamentals to it. One is that humans have a basic hierarchy of needs. Maslow of course defined this better than I ever could 80 years ago. And for a society to function in an orderly and productive manner, the bottom tiers of his pyramid must be seen as a basic human right, and not a commodity to be speculated upon by others.

Your industry is one of the greatest and most essential ever devised and honed by mankind.

I just wish it was run by scientists and engineers, instead of accountants and private equity funds.

So my grey answer is keep doing great things in the advancement of medical science. We need you. But were a virus to arrive that somehow was focused on killing c-suite people in your industry, I'd probably get it's name tattooed on my leg.

[Puckoon]

I dunno Puckoon.

I wouldn't shed a tear when a drug dealer is slain. He has chosen a life where his money is made out of making other people's lives worse. And even though one man's death will not fix the system, at least it might deter some others.

I kind of feel the same about this killing.

Existential question for you then to pass the time.

I work in the pharmaceutical development industry, my company was actively involved in the development of the Covid vaccines (for all the companies that developed them, Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J).

Does that make my execution acceptable? Does anyone who works for United Healthcare  have a legitimate target on their back?

Did he choose this life or tumble into it? Is your moral compass so erect that you would refuse a promotion to CEO level?

Honest answer? I don't know. The world is complicated. My moral compass is neither fixed to a point nor in a straight line. I long ago gave up on concept of black and white. Everything is grey.

But (and I hate using this term so frequently as I might come across as a political zealot, and that would make me very uncomfortable), neoliberalism (or at least my understanding of it) is destroying the western world. And the absolute heart of it (in my understanding) is unchecked pursuit of financial/material surplus above all else.

The moral compass I have does have some fundamentals to it. One is that humans have a basic hierarchy of needs. Maslow of course defined this better than I ever could 80 years ago. And for a society to function in an orderly and productive manner, the bottom tiers of his pyramid must be seen as a basic human right, and not a commodity to be speculated upon by others.

Your industry is one of the greatest and most essential ever devised and honed by mankind.

I just wish it was run by scientists and engineers, instead of accountants and private equity funds.

So my grey answer is keep doing great things in the advancement of medical science. We need you. But were a virus to arrive that somehow was focused on killing c-suite people in your industry, I'd probably get it's name tattooed on my leg.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply, Wobbler.

I believe you expressed opinions on Tattoos in the Tattoo thread (haven't double checked), so this last sentence did give me a chuckle - Cheers.

[trileacman]

I dunno Puckoon.

I wouldn't shed a tear when a drug dealer is slain. He has chosen a life where his money is made out of making other people's lives worse. And even though one man's death will not fix the system, at least it might deter some others.

I kind of feel the same about this killing.

Existential question for you then to pass the time.

I work in the pharmaceutical development industry, my company was actively involved in the development of the Covid vaccines (for all the companies that developed them, Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J).

Does that make my execution acceptable? Does anyone who works for United Healthcare  have a legitimate target on their back?

Did he choose this life or tumble into it? Is your moral compass so erect that you would refuse a promotion to CEO level?

Honest answer? I don't know. The world is complicated. My moral compass is neither fixed to a point nor in a straight line. I long ago gave up on concept of black and white. Everything is grey.

But (and I hate using this term so frequently as I might come across as a political zealot, and that would make me very uncomfortable), neoliberalism (or at least my understanding of it) is destroying the western world. And the absolute heart of it (in my understanding) is unchecked pursuit of financial/material surplus above all else.

The moral compass I have does have some fundamentals to it. One is that humans have a basic hierarchy of needs. Maslow of course defined this better than I ever could 80 years ago. And for a society to function in an orderly and productive manner, the bottom tiers of his pyramid must be seen as a basic human right, and not a commodity to be speculated upon by others.

Your industry is one of the greatest and most essential ever devised and honed by mankind.

I just wish it was run by scientists and engineers, instead of accountants and private equity funds.

So my grey answer is keep doing great things in the advancement of medical science. We need you. But were a virus to arrive that somehow was focused on killing c-suite people in your industry, I'd probably get it's name tattooed on my leg.

You seem to be excusing the murder of a husband and father because you think he is immoral. If Conor McGregor was gunned down in the street tomorrow would you find it as easy to excuse his killers just because you believe him to be an immoral man.

This man's death served no purpose, united healthcare will still exist next year. Private insurance in America will continue, as will capitalism and neoliberalism. All that was achieved was to add to the suffering in the world.

[Eamonnca1]

Point of order: being "a husband and a father" does not absolve you of your sins. Genghis Khan was a husband and father.

[Eamonnca1]

I think some people less familiar with the American health system are having a hard time believing how evil these insurance companies are.





UHC is subject to a lawsuit alleging "the company uses artificial intelligence (AI) to deny coverage to some elderly patients who are on a Medicare Advantage plan, despite allegedly being aware that the algorithm has a 90 percent error rate."

The suit says that UnitedHealthcare banks "on the patients' impaired conditions, lack of knowledge, and lack of resources to appeal the erroneous AI-powered decisions."

It goes on: "The fraudulent scheme affords Defendants a clear financial windfall in the form of policy premiums without having to pay for promised care, while the elderly are prematurely kicked out of care facilities nationwide or forced to deplete family savings to continue receiving necessary medical care, all because an AI model 'disagrees' with their real live doctors' determinations."

The suit says that an AI model was used to compare a patient's diagnosis, age, living situation and physical function to similar patients to predict the person's needs, estimated length of stay and target discharge date from care facilities.

That model, however, allegedly provided "generic recommendations" that did not "adjust for a patient's individual circumstances and conflict with basic rules on what Medicare Advantage plans must cover," according to the suit.

[Eamonnca1]

We're not talking about a mild mannered surgeon here. This is a wealthy CEO of a legalized extortion racket that was directly responsible for the deaths of innocent people and bankruptcy and hardship for millions, many of them elderly and vulnerable. After he took over as CEO, UHC's denial rate jumped from 8.7% to 22.7%, double the industry average. He also wasn't averse to a bit of insider trading, selling off stock before making it public that the corporation was being investigated for antitrust violations.

He belongs in the same category as Dr Harold Shipman. The lack of outrage about his death is entirely to be expected.

[Eamonnca1]

His last LinkedIn post was not well received:

[thewobbler]

I dunno Puckoon.

I wouldn't shed a tear when a drug dealer is slain. He has chosen a life where his money is made out of making other people's lives worse. And even though one man's death will not fix the system, at least it might deter some others.

I kind of feel the same about this killing.

Existential question for you then to pass the time.

I work in the pharmaceutical development industry, my company was actively involved in the development of the Covid vaccines (for all the companies that developed them, Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J).

Does that make my execution acceptable? Does anyone who works for United Healthcare  have a legitimate target on their back?

Did he choose this life or tumble into it? Is your moral compass so erect that you would refuse a promotion to CEO level?

Honest answer? I don't know. The world is complicated. My moral compass is neither fixed to a point nor in a straight line. I long ago gave up on concept of black and white. Everything is grey.

But (and I hate using this term so frequently as I might come across as a political zealot, and that would make me very uncomfortable), neoliberalism (or at least my understanding of it) is destroying the western world. And the absolute heart of it (in my understanding) is unchecked pursuit of financial/material surplus above all else.

The moral compass I have does have some fundamentals to it. One is that humans have a basic hierarchy of needs. Maslow of course defined this better than I ever could 80 years ago. And for a society to function in an orderly and productive manner, the bottom tiers of his pyramid must be seen as a basic human right, and not a commodity to be speculated upon by others.

Your industry is one of the greatest and most essential ever devised and honed by mankind.

I just wish it was run by scientists and engineers, instead of accountants and private equity funds.

So my grey answer is keep doing great things in the advancement of medical science. We need you. But were a virus to arrive that somehow was focused on killing c-suite people in your industry, I'd probably get it's name tattooed on my leg.

You seem to be excusing the murder of a husband and father because you think he is immoral. If Conor McGregor was gunned down in the street tomorrow would you find it as easy to excuse his killers just because you believe him to be an immoral man.

This man's death served no purpose, united healthcare will still exist next year. Private insurance in America will continue, as will capitalism and neoliberalism. All that was achieved was to add to the suffering in the world.

I don't think he was immoral. He was much worse than that. His company's modus operandi is to protract healthcare insurance claims for long enough that the claimant either dies or goes bankrupt. This plan might have been devised by a CFO and implemented by a COO, but to imbibe it in a corporate culture is entirely on him. So his legacy is that of a person who was could square off people dying against him getting a larger bonus. That his actions are legal, whilst drug dealer's actions are illegal, says more about America than a decade of case studies. People like this are no loss to the world, whether they've children or not.

——

An early demise for Conor McGregor would not cause celebrations. Not should it. But he'll have earned it when it happens.

——

As for no purpose. Revolutions always have touch points, when words start to translate into actions. I'm not telling you that's what's happened here. But America is overdue a revolution, and given the history and climate of that country, when it happens it'll involve a lot of shooting. We may get used to it.

[J70]

I wonder does this murder and the very vocal backlash against insurance companies have anything to do with Anthem suddenly reversing their plans to limit the length of surgery time they'll cover anaesthesia in NY, CT and MO?