Well with Clares win against Cork, Meath need to reach the final to avoid the Tailteann Cup.
Offaly beat Longford
Wicklow beat Carlow
Qtr Finals 22/04/23
Westmeath vs Louth
Offaly vs Meath
Laois vs Dublin
Kildare vs Wicklow
Louth looks like a stretch for Meath
Quote from: seafoid on April 10, 2023, 02:40:38 PM
Louth looks like a stretch for Meath
Louth have great Harte.
If Kildare or Meath end up in the Tailteann they'd obviously be among the big favourites but would you put the house on them? Don't think so.
They'd probably think it's beneath them!
The general feeling is if we end up in the TC it'll be exactly what we deserve. Will the players put everything into it, not sure. Not sure what way we'll show against Offaly either.
Venues & times confirmed
Qtr Finals 23/04/23
Westmeath vs Louth - 2pm - Navan
Offaly vs Meath - 4pm - Tullamore
Laois vs Dublin - 3.30pm - Portlaoise
Kildare vs Wicklow - 2.30pm - Carlow
Semis on 30 April
Final in Croke Park on 14 May with a 2pm throw-in
https://leinstergaa.ie/competitions/leinster-gaa-senior-football-championship-2023/
Louth will be expected to beat Westmeath but then League and Championship are different animals.
Kildare and Meath vulnerable especially if the camps are unhappy as rumoured.
Laois to qualify for Tailteann.
Be interesting to see can Louth bring in their league form into the championship if they do they'll reach the final. How much will Westmeath put into the Leinster championship knowing they are already qualified for the All Ireland group stage? Would it be better for them to be 2nd or 4th seed?
Meath have to improve defensively to reach the final. Dublin was less convincing in half of their Div 2 league games so might have one or two competitive contests on route to winning this title.
One of the things about the current system in comparison to the old one with a longer gap between League and championship is that teams bring their league form into the championship because there is no time to fix anything. Expecting Meath to roll up as a coherent unit is fanciful, unfortunately.
Louth have stepped up again this year. BUT they played Kildare last year fancying themselves and were given a fair trimming.
I don't see Louth failing the step this year as they already have shown they are better. Kildare are poor but Meath were woeful in that last game and I don't think they have the players to turn it around.
Kildare are all over the shop but if they click they can still play, so bar the Dubs they could take most teams in the province still.
I do fancy Louth to get to the Final and so Meath will be dropping down to the TC.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0411/1376399-championship-permutations-field-for-sam-taking-shape/
All-Ireland senior football championship permutations: Field for Sam Maguire Cup starts to take shape
Updated / Tuesday, 11 Apr 2023 18:31
By Eoin Ryan
RTÉ Sport Journalist
Following the first weekend of the football championship, the qualifying picture for the Sam Maguire Cup has become slightly clearer, though the new format is still as transparent as a muddy puddle for some.
Don't worry though, we're here to explain it to you. We hope.
The basics are:
16 teams will qualify for the seeded four-team groups that comprise the All-Ireland SFC group stages.
Eight of those places are reserved for the provincial finalists. The next eight come from the final league rankings, which take promotion/relegation and league finals into account.
Although ranked 20th after the league, as last year's Tailteann Cup winners, Westmeath will take one of the 16 places.
There is some confusion that if Westmeath reached the Leinster final that would somehow open up another spot, but a place is only reserved for the Tailteann Cup winners if they haven't already qualified. So, Westmeath will be taking the place of a higher-ranked team regardless and making the Leinster final would just mean a higher seeding for them in the group phase.
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh.
Clare's Munster quarter-final win over Cork on Sunday means that the Banner (17th) or their semi-final opponents Limerick (18th) will take one of the 16 Sam Maguire spots. History-makers New York or Sligo (23rd) will take another, as will Westmeath .
That means Division 2 side Meath are now effectively ranked 17th and will have to reach the Leinster final to make the All-Ireland series.
Kildare (now 16th) would drop to the Tailteann Cup if the Royals (or Offaly) did make the Leinster decider, unless the Lilywhites also reached the provincial final by coming through the side of the draw containing Dublin. In that somewhat unlikely scenario, Cork would be the team to miss out.
Even if Louth or Westmeath take care of their Leinster rivals, Kildare also have to worry about Cavan or Fermanagh reaching the Ulster final, and the more remote prospect of Tipperary shocking Kerry in Munster.
Kildare will therefore be hoping Derry get off to a good start in their Ulster SFC defence against Fermanagh on Saturday but we can expect a few more twists before the final line-ups for the summer are confirmed.
If we were somehow to end up with both a Cavan v Fermanagh Ulster final and a Meath-Kildare Leinster decider then even Donegal, just relegated from Division 1, would end up in the Tailteann Cup.
League champions Mayo will be in the All-Ireland series, as third seeds, despite their defeat to Roscommon but the seven other teams who lost at the weekend will definitely play in the Tailteann: Antrim, Carlow, Leitrim, London, Longford, Waterford and Wexford.
The 17-team tournament (Kilkenny play in the JFC) is being played on a similar format to the Sam Maguire: four four-team groups, with the group winners advancing directly to quarter-finals. The four second-placed teams and three best third-placed teams, plus New York, will then contest preliminary quarter-finals.
However, if New York beat Sligo, then the Exiles will participate in the All-Ireland series instead and one of the Tailteann Cup groups will contain five teams, with all four third-placed teams reaching preliminary quarter-finals.
If you've made it this far, well done. We'll be back with Paper 2 later in the month.
With Sligo/New York, Westmeath and Limerick/Clare already guaranteed spots in the All-Ireland series and Cavan holding genuine prospects of making an Ulster final it shows how important it is to finish in the top 3/4 places of division 2 for Leinster teams in that division. With the potential to land on the same side of the draw as Dublin in Leinster, it effectively ends your participation in the All-Ireland series if you have a bottom half finish in the league and draw Dublin prior to the Leinster final.
Kildare and Meath may both end up competing for the Tailteann Cup as opposed to for Sam. What the Tailteann Cup doesn't need are teams playing in and winning this competition who see themselves as "too good" or "above it". Westmeath's genuine delight and celebration in winning the competition added great value to it in it's first year. This is what the Tailteann Cup needs. If we have a couple of years of counties winning the Tailteann Cup who don't really embrace that success then it's going to devalue the competition a little. The Tailteann Cup is to give the Leitrim's, Laois' and Wickow's a genuine shot at an All-Ireland title not the likes of Kildare or Meath an opprtunity to get their hands on a trophy that they may show the proper appreciation for.
While I agree with what you're saying we in Meath have no right to think we're above the TC. I haven't seen us lift many trophies apart from the O'Byrne Cup this century. Hopefully our supporters and players will show up for it.
Fair play to the Leinster council. Their commitment to running this sham competition is unrivalled anywhere in modern day sport.
Apart from maybe the SFA and their "Premier League"
The most interesting aspect of this competition annually is in seeing which team can benefit from being in the right half of the draw in order to qualify for the right to receive a drubbing by Dublin in the final.
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2023, 12:34:19 PM
Fair play to the Leinster council. Their commitment to running this sham competition is unrivalled anywhere in modern day sport.
Apart from maybe the SFA and their "Premier League"
Sure what else are they going to do?
Quote from: yellowcard on April 14, 2023, 12:55:04 PM
The most interesting aspect of this competition annually is in seeing which team can benefit from being in the right half of the draw in order to qualify for the right to receive a drubbing by Dublin in the final.
Pthetic but so true, but as the they say don't let the facts get in the way of ....................
There must have been some gobshites running the various county boards and the leinster council for the past 10-15 years
Big win for Offaly
Serious questions need to asked if the current Meath management. I'm not sure I have the patience for 2 years of trying to figure things out. We need someone who can make us better straight away. I don't believe there is anyone in the county that can do it. Should have looked outside the county but we gave it to a lad who is well past it in terms of football know how. It should have been obvious to anyone listening to him on the Sunday Game that he didn't understand modern football. The Cork game glossed over some big problems that were there.
If we can't even put it up to Offaly then I don't see us doing a whole lot in the Tailteann Cup sadly. Once we're out of that I can see us looking for a new manager.
The Meath result was shocking. Meath have been mediocre for a long time but this is a new low.
Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2023, 07:37:08 PM
The Meath result was shocking. Meath have been mediocre for a long time but this is a new low.
The new low was a few years ago when we beat them. This is not lower than that. Offaly always have a touch of class.
Problem for Meath now is that they don't have Andy McEntee to blame the ref, the linesman, the woman who makes the tay, Lee Harvey Oswald, or the end of the Ice Age for the defeat.
Quote from: thejuice on April 23, 2023, 07:07:03 PM
Serious questions need to asked if the current Meath management. I'm not sure I have the patience for 2 years of trying to figure things out. We need someone who can make us better straight away. I don't believe there is anyone in the county that can do it. Should have looked outside the county but we gave it to a lad who is well past it in terms of football know how. It should have been obvious to anyone listening to him on the Sunday Game that he didn't understand modern football. The Cork game glossed over some big problems that were there.
If we can't even put it up to Offaly then I don't see us doing a whole lot in the Tailteann Cup sadly. Once we're out of that I can see us looking for a new manager.
Now favourites for the Tailteann cup according to rte radio today
Kildare have no clear plan or style of play.
I mean we have no structure at all, but Meath were shocking that day.
They won't win Tailteann. In the meantime I'll grin and bear a hammering next Sunday.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on April 23, 2023, 08:24:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2023, 07:37:08 PM
The Meath result was shocking. Meath have been mediocre for a long time but this is a new low.
The new low was a few years ago when we beat them. This is not lower than that. Offaly always have a touch of class.
Problem for Meath now is that they don't have Andy McEntee to blame the ref, the linesman, the woman who makes the tay, Lee Harvey Oswald, or the end of the Ice Age for the defeat.
At least with Andy you felt we were building towards something and we just needed someone who could find that extra level that Andy wasn't able to manage. However it's like it's all gone out the window and we're in a complete tailspin. Lads playing most league games like Scully and Moriarty get dropped for the championship. Jones on the bench due to hamstring concerns but can come on a kick two points makes you wonder.
Meath wouldn't be in this position if the GAA hadn't decided to put funding the game in before the competitiveness of the Leinster football championship.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs and that 6 in a row broke Meath and Kildare
Not going to be a nice end for O'Rourke. He's well out of his dept.
Mickey Harte has Louth motoring and showing how good a couch he is.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 23, 2023, 10:04:59 PM
Not going to be a nice end for O'Rourke. He's well out of his dept.
Mickey Harte has Louth motoring and showing how good a couch he is.
He's a great sofa all together, DFS should be trying to get him.
Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2023, 10:02:07 PM
Meath wouldn't be in this position if the GAA hadn't decided to put funding the game in before the competitiveness of the Leinster football championship.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs and that 6 in a row broke Meath and Kildare
Still not a reason why we can't compete with everyone else in the chasing pack. How are we not as good as Galway, Roscommon, Monaghan, Derry etc. we should be well up there with the rest. Irish rugby team used to get trounced by everyone but with right people behind it it's turned around. No reason why we can't do the same. Need to have the best coaches, best managers, best S&C and make sure we're the fittest team in Ireland. That should be where were at now. That's not dependent on individual talent. We have enough people and resources involved to get all the above in order but instead we are back to square one.
That was a seriously impressive second half from Louth!
I know Dublin skew everything but as was pointed out already Kildare and Meath have to look at what is happening compared to Monaghan, Roscommon and other counties with smaller populations.
Like a Kildare man is managing the Rossies. Someone who openly wanted the job after delivering an U20 All Ireland.
Leinster football is a closed shop. Dublin have won every title since 2011. Nobody can get within 10 points of them. Getting hammered every year is not conducive to team development. Since 2011 Ros and Monaghan have won several provincial titles but they aren't in Leinster
Is this not the reason for the current format. Irrespective of the leinster championship you can have a decent league campaign and compete against other counties for the Sam maguire. Forget about leinster titles
Bullshit. Dublin are better than everyone obviously but drop them in to Ulster or Connacht and you'd have at least 3 teams in each being competitive with them. The other Leinster counties are pathetic, especially Meath and Kildare.
Irish Times
Dublin's Leinster dominance
On only two occasions since 2011 have Dublin conceded more than one goal in a Leinster Championship match.
Damningly, since the retirement of, Ross Munnelly, last year, there is now no other active player outside of Dublin with a Leinster SFC medal to his name.
Kildare and Meath with their populations and strong economies and tradition in Meath's case ought to be at least as good regularly as Galway and Mayowestros.
Donegal a scattered mountain County with none of the advantages of Leinster Counties haven't done too badly last 10 or 12 years.
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath ought to be at least at Ros/Monaghan level.
Does the lack of any possibility of a Provincial title lead to hopelessness leading to lack of interested?
Also, the league doesn't lie. Look at where Leinster counties are. Dublin was a major blip, but after that none can stay up.
Still there are some good days. Well done to Offaly at the weekend. It shouldn't all be about Meath being poor here in fairness.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:23:58 AM
Kildare and Meath with their populations and strong economies and tradition in Meath's case ought to be at least as good regularly as Galway and Mayowestros.
Donegal a scattered mountain County with none of the advantages of Leinster Counties haven't done too badly last 10 or 12 years.
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath ought to be at least at Ros/Monaghan level.
Does the lack of any possibility of a Provincial title lead to hopelessness leading to lack of interested?
The new structure should help them with more matches against other counties .
They could even play development teams against Dublin in the Leinster championship.
They have to build momentum wherever possible.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:23:58 AM
Kildare and Meath with their populations and strong economies and tradition in Meath's case ought to be at least as good regularly as Galway and Mayowestros.
Donegal a scattered mountain County with none of the advantages of Leinster Counties haven't done too badly last 10 or 12 years.
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath ought to be at least at Ros/Monaghan level.
Does the lack of any possibility of a Provincial title lead to hopelessness leading to lack of interested?
Not sure why Laois should be at the same level as Roscommon and Monaghan. Similar sized counties but Laois has a much higher focus on hurling than either of those. Other factors of course too. A third of our population in one town and only one club in it who are financially broke. I could go on and on. Sufficed to say we're a mess
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
End of the day Rossfan, Portlaoise serves no purpose to Laois, despite its population. If anything, they have acclimatised to what's around them and stopped dominating. Between attrition, lack of finance and lack of interest, we get very little from what should be our more most productive resource
Anthony Moyles on Meath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtLMUgVjIoU&t=4980s
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:23:58 AM
Kildare and Meath with their populations and strong economies and tradition in Meath's case ought to be at least as good regularly as Galway and Mayowestros.
Donegal a scattered mountain County with none of the advantages of Leinster Counties haven't done too badly last 10 or 12 years.
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath ought to be at least at Ros/Monaghan level.
Does the lack of any possibility of a Provincial title lead to hopelessness leading to lack of interested?
You need to account for hurling. For example, Westmeath have been in division 1 for 3 or 4 years in a row now. Money is a huge factor in prepping intercounty teams. There is a finite amount in any small county. Now take (at least) 30-40% off Roscommon and Monaghan's budgets and you have an equal playing field in that respect.
To your other question, there is no doubt that it has an impact. Playing intercounty for more than a few years is objectively a nonsensical thing to do if you want to have a balanced life, like your non intercounty playing peers. But the dream of winning something can sustain lads. Take that away, and you're left with huge turnover every few years, and can't build.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
Best Offaly win in years.
The first half game control was excellent. Offaly put in the big tackles and won the turnovers that Meath rarely did. Offaly worked the ball around the field well to create openings.
Meath hit a few wides, but they were generally one-dimensional in attack. Straight and narrow drives, very little width on the ball.
At the back, they had no real defensive setup, meaning Offaly could open them up with overlaps.
For the 2nd half Meath had to go for broke and throw everyone forward, including the keeper. A half time team talk by Sean Boylan and O'Rourke would have been about invoking the voodoo of Meath past and launching a famous comeback.
Offaly made some poor handling errors and coughed up too many turnovers, but Meath spilled and lost the ball a lot too. The conditions were terrible.
The golden rule of the top soccer managers like Guardiola or Arteta is "if there's a transition, make a foul". So every Offaly turnover of Meath was immediately followed by a cynical Meath foul. All matter of pulling and dragging, head high at times. With a ref who had no intention of stamping it out, Meath were rewarded when they fouled because they bought time to get players back, and unfortunately Offaly tapped the frees short or backwards and the pressure was back on Offaly.
And while Meath did make inroads, they didn't look like getting a goal, or they never got many easy, quickfire scores.
After the Down match, I didn't believe Offaly would go well in 2023. The players looked deflated and downbeat. Here we are now, daring to dream.
Unfortunately, Louth are better than Meath. Offaly edged them by a whisker in 2021 when Louth were still a division 4 team. They are better now.
While Meath had a throwback manager in O'Rourke, Louth have the manager who practically invented the swarm defence. Looking at the Sunday Game, every Louth player looks 6 foot 3 as well.
We'll need something special again. You'd never know though.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:23:58 AM
Kildare and Meath with their populations and strong economies and tradition in Meath's case ought to be at least as good regularly as Galway and Mayowestros.
Donegal a scattered mountain County with none of the advantages of Leinster Counties haven't done too badly last 10 or 12 years.
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath ought to be at least at Ros/Monaghan level.
Does the lack of any possibility of a Provincial title lead to hopelessness leading to lack of interested?
For counties with small populations it will always go in cycles, Westmeath have competed well in Div 1 regularly over the past 10 years. Laois competed well in the mid 2000's.
Offaly have suffered from lack of proper structure since 2000, they are working to make an impact in both Football and Hurling with underage success in the last few years. In my lifetime I've been lucky enough to see Offaly win Football and hurling All Ireland as well as multiple underage all irelands at both grades. I've always felt there are only two teams in Leinster that don't fear Dublin and that's Meath and Offaly, Dublin will eventually fall to one of them.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:23:58 AM
Kildare and Meath with their populations and strong economies and tradition in Meath's case ought to be at least as good regularly as Galway and Mayowestros.
Donegal a scattered mountain County with none of the advantages of Leinster Counties haven't done too badly last 10 or 12 years.
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath ought to be at least at Ros/Monaghan level.
Does the lack of any possibility of a Provincial title lead to hopelessness leading to lack of interested?
Offaly is different to the neighbours because of the all Irelands. You could say that Offaly are in a historical slump.
Galway, MGHU and Donegal are bigger counties with bigger populations.
The big problem in Leinster is Dublin .In a normal decade they might only win 5 titles.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
The stupidity of the GAA give soccer a free reign from Mid-July on (only two teams in each code still active) cannot be helping matters from a marketing standpoint.
It still beggers belief, that Meath and Kildare with the population explosions they have had cannot come up with a decent senior team.
Mayo are still losing people to Dublin and Galway and are still very competitive at senior level.
As I mentioned earlier in this blog, there must have been some serious clowns running quite a few county boards in a lot of these counties for the last 15-20 years.
Quote from: joemamas on April 24, 2023, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
The stupidity of the GAA give soccer a free reign from Mid-July on (only two teams in each code still active) cannot be helping matters from a marketing standpoint.
It still beggers belief, that Meath and Kildare with the population explosions they have had cannot come up with a decent senior team.
Mayo are still losing people to Dublin and Galway and are still very competitive at senior level.
As I mentioned earlier in this blog, there must have been some serious clowns running quite a few county boards in a lot of these counties for the last 15-20 years.
In my experience, the most talented administrators keep their focus at club level. The individuals clubs wouldn't let run anything (for fear they'll mess up) end up getting involved at county board level.
There are counties where this is not the case of course.
Quote from: joemamas on April 24, 2023, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
The stupidity of the GAA give soccer a free reign from Mid-July on (only two teams in each code still active) cannot be helping matters from a marketing standpoint.
It still beggers belief, that Meath and Kildare with the population explosions they have had cannot come up with a decent senior team.
Mayo are still losing people to Dublin and Galway and are still very competitive at senior level.
As I mentioned earlier in this blog, there must have been some serious clowns running quite a few county boards in a lot of these counties for the last 15-20 years.
Does Club football not count?
Quote from: LeoMc on April 24, 2023, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 24, 2023, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
The stupidity of the GAA give soccer a free reign from Mid-July on (only two teams in each code still active) cannot be helping matters from a marketing standpoint.
It still beggers belief, that Meath and Kildare with the population explosions they have had cannot come up with a decent senior team.
Mayo are still losing people to Dublin and Galway and are still very competitive at senior level.
As I mentioned earlier in this blog, there must have been some serious clowns running quite a few county boards in a lot of these counties for the last 15-20 years.
Does Club football not count?
I'd say only people disappointed by the split season are the armchair TV viewer and the media. The vast majority involved at grassroots club level can see the real benefits.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 24, 2023, 05:10:31 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 24, 2023, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 24, 2023, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
The stupidity of the GAA give soccer a free reign from Mid-July on (only two teams in each code still active) cannot be helping matters from a marketing standpoint.
It still beggers belief, that Meath and Kildare with the population explosions they have had cannot come up with a decent senior team.
Mayo are still losing people to Dublin and Galway and are still very competitive at senior level.
As I mentioned earlier in this blog, there must have been some serious clowns running quite a few county boards in a lot of these counties for the last 15-20 years.
Does Club football not count?
I'd say only people disappointed by the split season are the armchair TV viewer and the media. The vast majority involved at grassroots club level can see the real benefits.
Of course it has benefits, but from a media standpoint it is relegated, below premier league soccer, Irish league soccer, rugby, horse racing etc for five or six months.
Meath have very poor clubs who haven't managed a Leinster title in years.
Quote from: joemamas on April 24, 2023, 05:59:01 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 24, 2023, 05:10:31 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 24, 2023, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 24, 2023, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 24, 2023, 09:48:32 AM
Are gaelic games a minority pursuit in the big Leinster towns generally?
One or two I'm somewhat familiar with have fine GAA clubs with loads of youngsters on Saturday mornings etc.
But all the young lads play soccer on the greens all week unlike in Ros where kick arounds are more often than not gaelic football.
Soccer is the go-to sport because it's straightforward to play and everyone can play it.
If you get a group of kids on a green and a subset play rugby and a subset play GAA, then soccer will be catch all for having a game.
The stupidity of the GAA give soccer a free reign from Mid-July on (only two teams in each code still active) cannot be helping matters from a marketing standpoint.
It still beggers belief, that Meath and Kildare with the population explosions they have had cannot come up with a decent senior team.
Mayo are still losing people to Dublin and Galway and are still very competitive at senior level.
As I mentioned earlier in this blog, there must have been some serious clowns running quite a few county boards in a lot of these counties for the last 15-20 years.
Does Club football not count?
I'd say only people disappointed by the split season are the armchair TV viewer and the media. The vast majority involved at grassroots club level can see the real benefits.
Of course it has benefits, but from a media standpoint it is relegated, below premier league soccer, Irish league soccer, rugby, horse racing etc for five or six months.
They could always split the club season into post Easter to End May and Post September and give the counties June to September for the weather and the media exposure
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/26/darragh-o-se-the-long-road-back-for-meath-has-already-begun-they-cant-fall-any-lower-than-this/
It has been some fall from grace for Meath. I'm not being overly critical here, but counties in the so-called commuter belt, like Meath, Kildare, Laois and Wicklow, to some extent, with the numbers they have, should be doing a lot better than they are.
Kildare are making some strides, at least contesting provincial finals on a more consistent basis, possibly benefiting from the overflow of people coming to the area. It's one thing to have the people, but you still have to work to make it attractive for them to play, sell their wares essentially.
Colm O'Rourke was very pragmatic in the way he described it, that Meath are now where they deserve to be. I believe he's in there for genuine and right reasons. Even if after Sunday I couldn't help wonder, does he wish he could hit the rewind button and find himself sitting back in Montrose giving out about Meath? It would have been an easier than what he's facing now.
[ Darragh Ó Sé: Why Dublin are my All-Ireland favourites this year, even ahead of Kerry ]
Meath are where they are. The challenge is to find out how to navigate their way out of it. They are going to have to get down and get dirty.
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-331988822/talk-a-good-game-episode-32-tagg
Worth a listen. I think there is merit to the idea that we need to reduce the number of clubs at senior level and increase the stakes for those remaining. The senior club championship in Meath should be an absolute dogfight that turns out battle hardened troops for the county panel.
Quote from: thejuice on April 26, 2023, 01:20:53 PM
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-331988822/talk-a-good-game-episode-32-tagg
Worth a listen. I think there is merit to the idea that we need to reduce the number of clubs at senior level and increase the stakes for those remaining. The senior club championship in Meath should be an absolute dogfight that turns out battle hardened troops for the county panel.
Reminded me of Galway around 2013. When you have young players blending with older ones who don't know how to win it takes time.
Something remarkable in Meath is the change in accents amongst their support this millennium. Not so many coming down from 'Nobboh on the back of a haws' nowadays. Now the Dublin accent is hugely prevalent, or more especially the Fingal accent as Dublin 15 has spilled out into the Meath commuter towns. In Kildare it's less obvious.
A bit like Offaly hurling, there are those adamant that the solutions lie in the old ways and the old strongholds. Like the O'Rourke appointment, or lads insisting that North Meath is where the proper caveman defenders need to be sourced from.
Whoever cracks the commuter belt conundrum best should be well able to overtake Dublin.
Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2023, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: thejuice on April 26, 2023, 01:20:53 PM
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-331988822/talk-a-good-game-episode-32-tagg
Worth a listen. I think there is merit to the idea that we need to reduce the number of clubs at senior level and increase the stakes for those remaining. The senior club championship in Meath should be an absolute dogfight that turns out battle hardened troops for the county panel.
Reminded me of Galway around 2013. When you have young players blending with older ones who don't know how to win it takes time.
Kevin Walsh brought a culture to Galway football, when you look at Galway now it's worth remember the ground work was done by him. Meath need a similar change. After Andy McEntee departed Meath needed a solid appointment to move them forward, they opted for nostalgia trip with Colm O'Rourke.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 26, 2023, 05:26:55 PM
Something remarkable in Meath is the change in accents amongst their support this millennium. Not so many coming down from 'Nobboh on the back of a haws' nowadays. Now the Dublin accent is hugely prevalent, or more especially the Fingal accent as Dublin 15 has spilled out into the Meath commuter towns. In Kildare it's less obvious.
A bit like Offaly hurling, there are those adamant that the solutions lie in the old ways and the old strongholds. Like the O'Rourke appointment, or lads insisting that North Meath is where the proper caveman defenders need to be sourced from.
Whoever cracks the commuter belt conundrum best should be well able to overtake Dublin.
I dunno. Leinster is like the Six Nations with Dublin as England or France. If England and France were super organised every year in the Six Nations there would be no competition. In the Six Nations the imbalance is addressed by TV money. If Ireland are the most organised they can beat the other 2.
Dublin are like England 2003 indefinitely. Meath don't even have one marquee forward. Even if they had 3 they wouldn't be able to beat Dublin. Because the GAA want to grow the sport in Dublin and the county team benefits indirectly. How many coaches do Meath and Kildare have ?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 26, 2023, 06:36:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2023, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: thejuice on April 26, 2023, 01:20:53 PM
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-331988822/talk-a-good-game-episode-32-tagg
Worth a listen. I think there is merit to the idea that we need to reduce the number of clubs at senior level and increase the stakes for those remaining. The senior club championship in Meath should be an absolute dogfight that turns out battle hardened troops for the county panel.
Reminded me of Galway around 2013. When you have young players blending with older ones who don't know how to win it takes time.
Kevin Walsh brought a culture to Galway football, when you look at Galway now it's worth remember the ground work was done by him. Meath need a similar change. After Andy McEntee departed Meath needed a solid appointment to move them forward, they opted for nostalgia trip with Colm O'Rourke.
Agreed, while he probably stayed too long in the job Andy did put some decent foundations in but that seems to be thrown out now and we're back to "building a team" once again.
My preference was for an outside manager as I wasn't convinced by O'Rourke or Bernard Flynn as candidates. I would have thought Eamon Fitzmaurice would have been a better choice given he'd won something in recent times as a player and manager. Him plus some top quality coaches and keeping the core of Andy's team together with a select few U20's might have resulted in us being able to progress again.
However it's a bit of a mess now with lads in and out of panel from week to week like Ronan Ryan who didn't play the league suddenly comes back and plays in the full back line. Strange.
If you look at Galway as a development model I don't think that Andy McEntee got as far as Kevin Walsh did.
Because Walsh got them to a stable Division 1 level and Galway won an all star during his period in charge.
Obviously it was easier having to face Mayo than Dublin in the provincial stakes.
Meath is going to need more than 3 years. There also has to be a provincial strategy for dealing with Dublin that is suitable psychologically.
Players need to develop in a culture of winning . Maybe the new structure will help.
OK. As a Kildare fan I'm v v v worried it could be worse than last year.
When you look at the Dubs with Mannion, McCaffrey plus Con fully at it.
Maybe the fact we have regressed means we won't go as open this time out.
If I was Glen Ryan or any other Leinster manager I would put out a development team against Dublin
The GAA is taking the piss with the Leinster championship and now it doesn't even matter.
Here is an article from 2019.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/leinster-football-championship-a-lame-duck-says-former-longford-boss-1.4043069
Seán Moran
Tue Oct 8 2019 - 01:00
The Leinster football championship is "over" according to former Longford manager Dennis Connerton.
He was speaking in the context of the draw for next year's provincial series, which pitches the county against Louth and which for the first time deferred its semi-final pairings until next summer when the last four teams emerge.
This is intended to create a bit more excitement about the championship and also avoid dispiriting teams, who might find themselves in the same side of the draw as Dublin.
Connerton had that experience in 2018 even though Longford got to the semi-finals on the back of a memorable win over Meath in the quarter-finals. He acknowledges Dublin's quality but believes the All-Ireland champions' domination of Leinster has shone a light on the inadequacies of the format.
"Leinster has become a lame duck," he said.
"It doesn't seem to exist anymore as a provincial championship and you'd wonder how long more we can keep going with it. Apathy has set in. Dublin are fabulous footballers and a fabulous team but it's just very difficult for others to reach that level.
Learn more
"The provincial system is old-fashioned and inexplicable with its five counties and six counties and 12 counties and nine counties. It's over as far as I'm concerned."
Setting out the difficulties of facing the county that next year will be in pursuit of a record 10th successive provincial championship, he said that the only prospect of making an impact is if the two teams' performances deviate significantly from the norm.
"Well there's two sides to it and one is the challenge of playing probably the greatest team of any era and the other part is, 'what chance do we really have of beating these guys?' That's very difficult for teams to process.
"What you're hoping for all the time is that Dublin's level of performance is going to dip, which it never seems to do at Croke Park, and a massive dip at that and that you're going to play the game of your life."
There is he believes a major discrepancy between the horizons of a county like Longford at various times of the year.
"When you're setting out, you have the pre-season tournament, the O'Byrne Cup. That's something you can chase after (Longford beat Dublin in the 2016 competition) and you look at the league, which is where it's all happening for teams in Division Three, Division Four, Division Two. You've an opportunity of winning something.
Different animal
"But then you've the Leinster championship and what are you doing? You're waiting to go in to the qualifiers. It's only a matter of how far you get or when you're going to bump into Dublin.
"You can handle everybody else – there is a level of expectation that you can compete with the Kildares and Meaths but Dublin is a different animal altogether."
Connerton, who stepped down after the 19-point defeat by Dublin in the 2018 Leinster semi-final isn't exaggerating about his county's exploits. As well as beating Meath in 2018, Longford under his successor Pádraic Davis, took Kildare to a replay in this year's championship.
It is however, as the former manager acknowledges, when the county is given the chance to slip the shackles of the provincial championship, which it has won just once in 1968, that it performs best. Longford's record in the qualifiers is impressive with several wins over teams with higher league rankings.
"I'd say our players look forward to the qualifiers because they don't know who they're going to meet and have done well in them. I can put any spin on this that I want in any meeting with players but they probably feel themselves that if they can keep Dublin to single digits, they'll be doing very well.
"Once you're not putting up with the 30-points or the 28- or 29-points defeats, you're coming out unscathed and that's where it's at."
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 28, 2023, 08:57:35 PM
OK. As a Kildare fan I'm v v v worried it could be worse than last year.
When you look at the Dubs with Mannion, McCaffrey plus Con fully at it.
Maybe the fact we have regressed means we won't go as open this time out.
Yeah, on paper, the previous 2 years were better chances for Kildare, but both ended up being easy wins.
Dubs bench tomorrow looks better on paper than it has for a number of years:
Cluxton, Costello, Dias, Howard, Lahiff, O'Dell, O'Gara, Rock, Scully, J Small, P Small
Although 2 or 3 of them will likely start.
Kildare need to take the goal chances that Dublin almost always offer up and stay in the game as long as possible, but Dubs seem to be in a good place, biggest questionmark is whether playing in D2 in the league will count against when someone really puts it up to them.
Kildare don't score goals at all. So they rarely create goal chances. And even before the poor run a lot of goals came from Daniel Flynn doing something amazing as opposed to an actual end of a move.
In terms of the championship it's dead in the water but what's the excuse for Kildare and Meath, counties with resources, not being top Div 2 and even Div 1 sides?
Success is about doing iterations and making a team that works and is accurate. D1 and top of D2 teams are accurate not sloppy. Accuracy requires confidence. Being hammered by Dublin every year is anti confidence. This is why the round Robin should be good for Kildare and Meath.
Louth 0-9 Offaly 1-6 at half time.
15 minutes into the 2nd half. Louth: 0-13 Offaly 1-9
If anyone on here knows Paddy Andrews, can you please please tell him to stop talking over Mike Finnerty who is the commentator.
So annoying.
He is a decent analyst, but needs to talk a lot less.
Quote from: joemamas on April 30, 2023, 02:58:37 PM
If anyone on here knows Paddy Andrews, can you please please tell him to stop talking over Mike Finnerty who is the commentator.
So annoying.
He is a decent analyst, but needs to talk a lot less.
He's better as a co-comm than he is on the OTB podcast, where he just talks over everyone and laughs at his own jokes constantly
60 minutes played Louth 0-17 Offaly 1-10.
Thought Offaly were gonners, but back to 2 points.
66 minutes played Louth: 0-17 Offaly: 1-13
Quote from: Tubberman on April 30, 2023, 03:02:22 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 30, 2023, 02:58:37 PM
If anyone on here knows Paddy Andrews, can you please please tell him to stop talking over Mike Finnerty who is the commentator.
So annoying.
He is a decent analyst, but needs to talk a lot less.
He's better as a co-comm than he is on the OTB podcast, where he just talks over everyone and laughs at his own jokes constantly
Jesus he just never shuts up. Fu*k me.
Sides are level Louth 0-17 Offaly 1-14. 1 minute of added time left. Extra time to be played.
I don't think I've seen as good an exhibition of poor decision making in my life. The last 10 mins has been brutal from both teams!
Hon Offaly!
oh offaly, what a chance to win it
Extra time!
Quote from: joemamas on April 30, 2023, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 30, 2023, 03:02:22 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 30, 2023, 02:58:37 PM
If anyone on here knows Paddy Andrews, can you please please tell him to stop talking over Mike Finnerty who is the commentator.
So annoying.
He is a decent analyst, but needs to talk a lot less.
He's better as a co-comm than he is on the OTB podcast, where he just talks over everyone and laughs at his own jokes constantly
Jesus he just never shuts up. Fu*k me.
He is ruining a great game, he is doing his own running commentary on the game , including calling where the shot is going while it is still in the air, don't forget he is not the commentator.
going to put it on mute. He has gone from annoying to becoming unbearable.
BTW it is a great game.
Half time in extra time. Louth 0-23 Offaly 1-15. Louth looking the fitter and more conditioned team.
Louth ran away with it. Shows how far off the pace Meath are.
FT Louth 0-27 Offaly 2-15. Louth into their first Leinster final for 13 years.
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2023, 04:02:23 PM
Louth ran away with it. Shows how far off the pace Meath are.
Ran away with it? Really?
Stephen Cluxton started for Dublin today. Latest Dublin 0-2 Kildare 0-3 after 16 mins.
Cluxton, you joking, a kick in the balls to them other 2 keepers who played rightly in the league
Half time a potential shock on the cards? Dublin 0-6 Kildare 0-8 at half time.
No chance
Quote from: Tubberman on April 30, 2023, 04:06:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2023, 04:02:23 PM
Louth ran away with it. Shows how far off the pace Meath are.
Ran away with it? Really?
Yes, really . In extra time.
Good start to the 2nd half for Kildare they lead by 4. 0-10 to 0-6.
10-7 to Kildare.
Leinster championship for competitive games!
50 mins played Dublin 0-9 Kildare 0-11.
Level game 0-11 each. 15 minutes left.
59 mins played Kildare back in front 0-12 to 0-11
Level again with 9 mins left.
Well now.
Dublin in front for the first time in the match 0-13 to 0-12 64 mins played.
Into 5 minutes of added time. Still 0-13 to 0-12
Full time Dublin 0-14 Kildare 0-12. Get out of jail card used by the Dubs this evening.
A great effort from Kildare. Fair play to them.
A great effort but no cigar.
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 30, 2023, 05:54:59 PM
Dublin in front for the first time in the match 0-13 to 0-12 64 mins played.its not monopoly
Into 5 minutes of added time. Still 0-13 to 0-12
Full time Dublin 0-14 Kildare 0-12. Get out of jail card used by the Dubs this evening.
Kildare is a force again, despite themselves, and fair dues.
QuoteKildare is a force again, despite themselves, and fair dues.
They lost
Quote from: highorlow on April 30, 2023, 10:41:37 PM
QuoteKildare is a force again, despite themselves, and fair dues.
They lost
Yep, but no longer the gimme that they have been recently! ;)
I see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
QuoteI see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
I thought the ref was fine, if anything he gave kildare a non free early in the second half that was a tap over, I didn't think he gave Dublin anything soft. There was one call for a line ball that was 50/50 but the linesman must've got it correct, the SG appear to have been gagged lately on any ref calls. McCaffery double hopped for his point but the ref was playing advantage and had the free been given it was a tap over.
I don't know what his waffle about what was going on along the sideline is about. I was over the far side of the field.
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 10:45:49 PM
I see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
Apart from the financial doping and playing most of their games in CP? After that I dont know.
"It's frustrating from the point of view that - I suppose everyone gives out about the Croke Park thing - but you come up here and you don't get a fair crack of the whip," Ryan said.
Ryan consoles Jimmy Hyland after the game
"Well, there's fellas walking up and down one side of the official and nobody can do anything down the other end. Fellas standing in my so-called box and my own officials being told to get out of it and there's somebody from the other side [in it]."
Ryan bemoaned some 50-50 calls that he felt didn't go his team's way late in the game. "There's sideline balls not given, a fella tripped up in front of the goals, wasn't given," Ryan claimed.
"It sounds like sour grapes but I know I'm reflecting the views of most teams around the country that everything is laid out here [for Dublin], number one, from a familiarity perspective, from a games perspective and, you know, everything else seems to go their way as well.
"Sure we'll play anywhere, but you want to play anywhere when it's fair. And there wasn't anything glaring, nothing glaring. There were calls went either way, but when you look at stuff that goes on on the sideline and the dressing-rooms and all that, you know, it's all wrapped up in it."
It's the old adage ....... a home game is a home game is a home game
Quote from: mup on April 30, 2023, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 10:45:49 PM
I see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
Apart from the financial doping and playing most of their games in CP? After that I dont know.
Welcome back Ewan Hope all well 😊
He has a point no matter about anything else the Dubs should not be playing in Croker as much as they do and they shouldn't be allowed to designate it as a home venue.
They need their own 20-25k capacity stadium to play their home games!
Quote from: Gael85 on April 30, 2023, 11:31:50 PM
Quote from: mup on April 30, 2023, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 10:45:49 PM
I see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
Apart from the financial doping and playing most of their games in CP? After that I dont know.
Welcome Euan Hope all well 😊
Very original. You think of that all by yourself?
The truth hurts.
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2023, 11:41:16 PM
He has a point no matter about anything else the Dubs should not be playing in Croker as much as they do and they shouldn't be allowed to designate it as a home venue.
They need their own 20-25k capacity stadium to play their home games!
Exactly. God knows they've gotten plenty of bobs from the gaa/government. Leinster football is a cesspit.
Quote from: mup on April 30, 2023, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 10:45:49 PM
I see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
Apart from the financial doping and playing most of their games in CP? After that I dont know.
I'm as anti-dub as you'll get - completely in favour of breaking Dublin into 4 or 5 or 6... Genuinely.
But this stupid financial doping is a load of non-sensical shite, can we just drop it.
And Ryan has a point, seemed to be a clear trip in front of the posts that would have left a point in it and not forced them to try and work a goal with those last 2 attacks. That said, lilywhites have to be sick tonight. Game was left behind them, just some really bad decisions when more composure was needed in the last quarter. Don't think louth will get as close unfortunately and the dubs will get the 5,000 days since a defeat in Leinster...
Quote from: onefineday on May 01, 2023, 12:10:47 AM
Quote from: mup on April 30, 2023, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 10:45:49 PM
I see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
Apart from the financial doping and playing most of their games in CP? After that I dont know.
I'm as anti-dub as you'll get - completely in favour of breaking Dublin into 4 or 5 or 6... Genuinely.
But this stupid financial doping is a load of non-sensical shite, can we just drop it.
And Ryan has a point, seemed to be a clear trip in front of the posts that would have left a point in it and not forced them to try and work a goal with those last 2 attacks. That said, lilywhites have to be sick tonight. Game was left behind them, just some really bad decisions when more composure was needed in the last quarter. Don't think louth will get as close unfortunately and the dubs will get the 5,000 days since a defeat in Leinster...
The facts speak for themselves. Is it 17 out of 18 Leinsters? No coincidence that this started around Berties monies. Its there in black and white. Btw I blame the Gaa. They have destroyed Leinster football as a result. The likes of Meath and Kildare after regressing since then. What is the point of it all for them? Seemingly (I didnt see it) Kildare played as well as they could today and Dublin still won playing poorly.
Its dead in the water.
Quote from: mup on May 01, 2023, 12:08:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2023, 11:41:16 PM
He has a point no matter about anything else the Dubs should not be playing in Croker as much as they do and they shouldn't be allowed to designate it as a home venue.
They need their own 20-25k capacity stadium to play their home games!
Exactly. God knows they've gotten plenty of bobs from the gaa/government. Leinster football is a cesspit.
Who'll be paying for this 20-25 seater in the most expensive real-estate area in Ireland? If it's government funded, will this make you happy they won't be in Croker, or will you use it as more grist for the "dubs get all the money since Bertie" mill?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 01, 2023, 12:56:51 AM
Quote from: mup on May 01, 2023, 12:08:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2023, 11:41:16 PM
He has a point no matter about anything else the Dubs should not be playing in Croker as much as they do and they shouldn't be allowed to designate it as a home venue.
They need their own 20-25k capacity stadium to play their home games!
Exactly. God knows they've gotten plenty of bobs from the gaa/government. Leinster football is a cesspit.
Who'll be paying for this 20-25 seater in the most expensive real-estate area in Ireland? If it's government funded, will this make you happy they won't be in Croker, or will you use it as more grist for the "dubs get all the money since Bertie" mill?
Fund it the same way as every other county. Unless ye want preferential treatment to build a stadium as well.
Through filling Croke Park and using the funds thus generated to fund games at grassroots level?
I'd be OK with that. But it would surely mean less funds going to other counties from those gate receipts, at least in the short to medium term.
Real-life GAA stadia are built in large part through government funding and GAA HQ funds.
If Dublin were to build a mid-sized stadium, so as to not play their games in Croke Park, that would mean serious financial outlay from the GAA, and a serious dent in the funding that the government makes to the GAA.
If it's 25-30 capacity, that would also mean lower receipts and less profitability for the GAA accruing from Dublin games.
All of this would mean less funding for GAA clubs outside of Dublin.
But you probably know this already...
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 01, 2023, 12:56:51 AM
Quote from: mup on May 01, 2023, 12:08:07 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 30, 2023, 11:41:16 PM
He has a point no matter about anything else the Dubs should not be playing in Croker as much as they do and they shouldn't be allowed to designate it as a home venue.
They need their own 20-25k capacity stadium to play their home games!
Exactly. God knows they've gotten plenty of bobs from the gaa/government. Leinster football is a cesspit.
Who'll be paying for this 20-25 seater in the most expensive real-estate area in Ireland? If it's government funded, will this make you happy they won't be in Croker, or will you use it as more grist for the "dubs get all the money since Bertie" mill?
Same way as any of the other 31 counties fund their own stadium. Honestly the notion that Dublin could not fund a county stadium of their own is absolutely laughable.
https://tyronegaa.ie/club-tyrone/
Use this link for tips.
So Tyrone's success over the past 20 years or so has been entirely funded by their membership?
That's impressive.
People talk, mostly Dublin supporters, about Dublins lack.of success before their domination started. But we live in very different times. There is an almost professional approach to the Gaa in Dublin that even if it were replicated elsewhere (not possible for many reasons) the weight of numbers would nullify its effectiveness.
There is a pointlessness to Leinster in particular, notwithstanding Kildare"s good effort yesterday. Them and Meath are better positioned than most to rise at some point because they focus predominantly on football, have larger numbers and opportunities to fund themselves. The rest of us are waiting for the golden crop, and for the most part, wasting our time. It stopped being sport a long time ago. Laughable to see people defend it. But why would you care when you're winning. Just tell them shitty little counties to get better or get their house in order
Would it not be possible to develop parnell park further? Have never been at that ground so no clue
Mad that the Croke Park debate has come up on a day when Kildare run us close!
It's like people ignore everything they see from all other GAA games where home advantage doesn't really exist, but when the Dubs play in Croker, suddenly it's back. And Dubs don't get to train in Croke Park like normal home venues.
There was a big study on US basketball a few years ago when it scientifically shown that home advantage only arose when there was a big difference in home fans v away fans. Covid proved this when across all sports previous 'home advantage' completely disappeared when games were played in empty stadia. Whereas clearly in, for example, English soccer there is some element of home advantage in results across the season as home fans make up 80% of the crowd.
And that's why for most GAA matches, venue is irrelevant as fans split tend to be reasonably close to 50-50. As is the case for All Ireland QFs, SFs and finals in Croker.
Dublin have never had any problem playing Leinster games outside Croker. It's a 12 county Leinster council decision, of which Dublin is only 1 of 12. It's the other Leinster counties that decide on Croker.
As for the match, the Dubs were very disappointing. Bit of a surprise that Cluxton started, but his goalkeeping was good and his kickouts were very good - he may well have been Dublin's best player.
Kildare had a good system and they gave it their all (which hasn't been the case every time we play them), but it wasn't really Dublin upping it that turned the game around, it was more Kildare falling off a bit. In particular, their decision making and execution in the last 10 mins really let Dublin off the hook. Coincided with Ryan completely losing his rag on the sideline. Great to have emotion, but you need composure too. A missed opportunity, and I think that's the real reason Ryan was so Kevin Keegan mad in the after match interview.
Home advantage does not exist! Tell that to donegal who made ballybofey a fortress for years. When teams are fighting to make small gains, home advantage, changing rooms, familiarity ate nit small advantages, they are significant advantages
Quote from: Hound on May 01, 2023, 09:26:57 AM
Mad that the Croke Park debate has come up on a day when Kildare run us close!
It will always come up, home advantage is home advantage. You sleep in your own bed, you know the feel of the ground, your fans are behind you in greater numbers, you know the staff at the stadium and they know you.
It's like people ignore everything they see from all other GAA games where home advantage doesn't really exist, but when the Dubs play in Croker, suddenly it's back. And Dubs don't get to train in Croke Park like normal home venues.
Dublin get to play regularly there. No other county plays or have played the amount of game Dublin have played in Croke Park.
There was a big study on US basketball a few years ago when it scientifically shown that home advantage only arose when there was a big difference in home fans v away fans. Covid proved this when across all sports previous 'home advantage' completely disappeared when games were played in empty stadia. Whereas clearly in, for example, English soccer there is some element of home advantage in results across the season as home fans make up 80% of the crowd.
And that's why for most GAA matches, venue is irrelevant as fans split tend to be reasonably close to 50-50. As is the case for All Ireland QFs, SFs and finals in Croker.
This is where your case falls down Dublin fans always out number counties in Croke Park especially in the Leinster Championship.
Dublin have never had any problem playing Leinster games outside Croker. It's a 12 county Leinster council decision, of which Dublin is only 1 of 12. It's the other Leinster counties that decide on Croker.
Dublin have sat comfortably on their hands with the temptation of money swaying Leinster delegates to concede games to Croke Park. Nearly all of the counties are so far behind at this stage, they'd vote to hand over the Delaney Cup without a game if they knew they'd still get the money.
Quote from: An Watcher on May 01, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
Would it not be possible to develop parnell park further? Have never been at that ground so no clue
No boxed into residential area and Clontarf golf club beside it.
Quote from: highorlow on April 30, 2023, 10:58:18 PM
QuoteI see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
I thought the ref was fine, if anything he gave kildare a non free early in the second half that was a tap over, I didn't think he gave Dublin anything soft. There was one call for a line ball that was 50/50 but the linesman must've got it correct, the SG appear to have been gagged lately on any ref calls. McCaffery double hopped for his point but the ref was playing advantage and had the free been given it was a tap over.
I don't know what his waffle about what was going on along the sideline is about. I was over the far side of the field.
Didn't see the match but apparently this was the call that looks like the wrong one made. Did Kildare have goal or point scoring chance from it?
(https://scontent.fdub7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343944064_1958376691171438_5545544476311734269_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=uEcijOe4YQQAX8goFnA&_nc_oc=AQkM28Zh3UTgMF6_WWa7mwk8N2VD1GAnGs25i4XCESPYXYPVlZzMCTk68uDd4goHwRI&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub7-1.fna&oh=00_AfAaN3g3fBKFwaJFM0OzvdHsEvWkXF11NZzjgGhkSx6MqQ&oe=64554FDD)
Quote from: highorlow on April 30, 2023, 10:58:18 PM
QuoteI see Glenn Ryan's not happy. Didn't see the match but does he have grounds for it? What happened?
I thought the ref was fine, if anything he gave kildare a non free early in the second half that was a tap over, I didn't think he gave Dublin anything soft. There was one call for a line ball that was 50/50 but the linesman must've got it correct, the SG appear to have been gagged lately on any ref calls. McCaffery double hopped for his point but the ref was playing advantage and had the free been given it was a tap over.
I don't know what his waffle about what was going on along the sideline is about. I was over the far side of the field.
That double hop would have overruled the advantage and would have been a free out for kildare by the rules
Quote from: An Watcher on May 01, 2023, 11:57:59 AM
Home advantage does not exist! Tell that to donegal who made ballybofey a fortress for years. When teams are fighting to make small gains, home advantage, changing rooms, familiarity ate nit small advantages, they are significant advantages
Way to go with not reading (or probably understanding) the post.
Being used to changing rooms an advantage 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ballybofey absolutely a Donegal fortress, where Donegal fans always well outnumber the opposition. There's not many others. Kerry in Killarney are unbeatable, but they are Kerry.
Crowd advantage is much more of a thing than home advantage.
Quote from: Hound on May 01, 2023, 09:26:57 AM
There was a big study on US basketball a few years ago when it scientifically shown that home advantage only arose when there was a big difference in home fans v away fans.
How did that work? Basketball is almost exclusively home fans, at least if we're talking NBA. Distances are too great in many cases for all fans but the very wealthy, or transplants. There are exceptions (e.g., Knicks, Nets), but there isn't the "travelling fan contingent" that you would get in soccer or GAA.
One thing is now for certain. Louth will get all the marginal calls in the final.
They'll need them!
Where will Louth play their home game?
They'll hardly want to put any €€s into Navan after the 2010 business.
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 09:22:22 AM
One thing is now for certain. Louth will get all the marginal calls in the final.
Why would it be certain that Louth will get the marginal calls in the final?
I better jump in here to say it was a very pleasant surprise on Sunday.
Sure we made mistakes but many when our legs went. Sure they were not flying, but we contained them well.
Don't think they will win All-Ireland outright unless things change...
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 02, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
I better jump in here to say it was a very pleasant surprise on Sunday.
Sure we made mistakes but many when our legs went. Sure they were not flying, but we contained them well.
Don't think they will win All-Ireland outright unless things change...
what's Kildare's home venue likely to be?
I think the talk is Carlow or Portlaoise.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 02, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
I better jump in here to say it was a very pleasant surprise on Sunday.
Sure we made mistakes but many when our legs went. Sure they were not flying, but we contained them well.
Don't think they will win All-Ireland outright unless things change...
Kildare were impressive
Always one game in them before we revert, but a few lads really stepped up a lot more.
Will Louth do any damage at all? In fairness Offaly were feeding off emotion this year, but Louth looked to have plenty more in them. Harte will set them up like Kidlare but they will need to have more carriers and out balls.
Final today yet it's 10 days since the last post on this competition :-\
The GAA broke it
Upper tiers open so looks like a half decent crowd. Hopefully a big Louth contingent
Strongest Dublin starting team this year.
S Cluxton;
D Newcombe, D Byrne, L Gannon;
J McCarthy, J Small, J McCaffrey
B Fenton, B Howard;
N Scully S Bugler, C Kilkenny;
P Mannion, C O’Callaghan, C Costello.
My prediction.
Dublin.
Poor crowd in Croke Park. Must be soccer on the TV today
The Dubs are playing their greatest hits. Hard to know how far they can go this year.
Good opening ten minutes by Louth showing plenty of intensity. 0-2 to 0-1 ahead.
Hold up. Louth full forward scored 7 from play in semi final and he's effectively playing full back today? ???
23 minutes played looks as good as over already. Dublin goal and a quick point 1-8 to 0-3. Louth getting killed on the turn overs.
What a f**king waste of everyones time. Louth do well to keep this under 15 points.
They can't even keep the ball kicked out
Over in 20 minutes another poor spectacle. Referee was a joke giving a throw ball from that Louth kick out, he was not inside the D or close .
Bad enough watching Dublin battering teams in Croke Park without referees awarding them every hand free and decision possible
Louth actually brought a very good crowd to this match for once it seems, very disappointing that it's the same old story in Leinster
Half time Dublin 1-12 Louth 0-6. Marty Morrissey trying to keep viewers tuned by claiming Louth are still in the game.
Dublin scored that goal from a turnover but when did turnover become a concept in Gaelic football ?
2nd Dublin goal at a time Louth were having a decent spell, very poor defending. 45 mins played Dublin 2-13 Louth 0-9
Bugler with a good goal 3-18 to 0-10. 56 mins gone.
Full time Dublin 5-21 Louth 0-15. Bookies reckoned before the game Dublin would win by 10 it was double that.
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2023, 02:27:18 PM
Dublin scored that goal from a turnover but when did turnover become a concept in Gaelic football ?
The game is about counter attacking, turning the ball over sets up the style we have now.
Embarrassing for the GAA and Leinster council.
Tiers are the answer here.
Sure after all there is a full place between Dublin and Louth in the league
Quote from: trailer on May 14, 2023, 03:28:35 PM
Embarrassing for the GAA and Leinster council.
They dug their own graves
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0622/1056894-gaa-see-dublin-as-blueprint-for-future-not-the-problem/
GAA see Dublin as blueprint for future, not the present problem
Updated / Sunday, 23 Jun 2019 13:20
GAA executives admit Dublin's unprecedented dominance of Leinster could not have been predicted when they began to invest heavily in the capital, but there are no plans to split the county or pull the plug on their investment.
Jim Gavin's side this afternoon go in search of their 15th Leinster SFC title in 16 years when they take on Meath in Croke Park - a monument to the success of the GAA's 2002 Strategic Review, which put in place the plan to resurrect Gaelic games in Dublin after decades of under-investment.
That the Dubs are this summer seeking the first five in a row in the history of senior All-Irelands is proof that the strategic plan worked, perhaps better than anyone expected.
"In all honesty, the authors of the report at the time wouldn't have envisaged that there would be such a period of pre-eminence at senior football level in particular for Dublin," GAA director general Tom Ryan told Marty Morrissey, as part of a special report to be broadcast on today's Sunday Game live programme at 1pm.
"The thinking at the time was Dublin faced particular challenges in terms of where they stood in the scheme of things, GAA wise," added Ryan.
"It is very important for us at national level that the capital city and capital county is in a good place from a GAA point of view. That was the thinking at the time."
Dublin received almost €18million in game development grants between 2007 and 2018. Cork was the county that received the second largest amount, with €1.4m.
"That money is ringfenced solely for coaching and games development in Dublin," Dublin county board chief executive John Costello told RTÉ GAA correspondent Morrissey.
"We have 54 games promotion officers, we have three regional development officers, we have a hurling development officer and a football development officer.
"Last year Dublin spent €3.6m on coaching and games development. Of that, €1.2m from central headquarters, the clubs paid 50% of the games promotion officers and the balance of the funding comes from the county board funds, through sponsorship and gate receipts."
Dublin, with 10 intercounty sponsors on board, earned €1.46m in commercial revenue in 2017 - more than twice that of their closest rival in the financial stakes, Cork.
However, Costello rejects the suggestion Dublin no longer need financial support from Croke Park.
"We have huge challenges in Dublin. We have developing areas that we have no presence in: there are areas like Cherrywood, Hollystown and Adamstown."
The Dublin county board has ambitions to develop up to four centres of excellence around the county, but Costello cites the price of land in the capital.
"We paid €9.2m for Spawell, which works out as €275,000 an acre and it will probably cost us a similar sum to develop this land," he said.
"We have the population, the rest of the country has the land. The population is no good unless you have the facilities and the land to play our games on."
Dublin's dominance within Leinster has seen winning margins skyrocket as final attendances have halved in a decade, but Leinster Council CEO Michael Reynolds does not entertain the idea that the provincial championships are a lost cause.
"The Leinster Championship is quite vibrant outside the Dublin scenario. During the summer, you have some very good matches - the same in the other provinces," said Reynolds.
"I have no doubt the gap will close. It is not up to Dublin to come back, it's up to the rest of us to lift."
Ryan echoes this sentiment - putting the responsibility on the GAA and the chasing pack to learn from Dublin and close the gap.
"It is a question of learning what has been successful in Dublin and trying to apply that elsewhere, rather than taking a scalpel to something that has worked."
Neither Ryan or Costello entertain the idea of splitting the county to level the playing field, with Ryan insisting that suggestion would have to come from Dublin themselves.
Costello is unlikely to bring that to Congress: "I have never met anyone yet who wanted to play for a subsection of the county."
The Dublin county board CEO believes people need to stop judging the flow of money in terms of All-Irelands and think about participation rates.
"You look at it through the lense of the intercounty scene. What we look at are the club and participation rates. We have grown participation rates in football in the last 10 years by 58%, in hurling it is 98%.
"In terms of games provision, last year we provided 11,500 fixtures for children between 8 and 12 age group. This is what we are doing. What we are concerned about is growing participation."
These are huge numbers but are unlikely to offer much succour to fans of Meath, or Kildare, or Longford. However Costello believes, despite this massive investment and growth, that Gavin's team are exceptional, and not the new normal for Dublin.
"Now we have a phenomenal bunch of players, we are winning, but it won't always be like that."
Those Dublin goals reminded me of the Donegal players streaming through the exposed Dublin defense in the 2014 semi.
Leinster football in a nutshell.
Hope the Gaa are proud.
Dublin celebrating is like Celtic celebrating. They look like imbeciles.
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Did they get their dressing room of choice today? And I presume they wamed up at Hill 16 end.
Quote from: mup on May 14, 2023, 05:56:55 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Did they get their dressing room of choice today? And I presume they wamed up at Hill 16 end.
They did. It made all the difference.
Although disappointed to hear Louth also got a Hogan Stand dressing room, which is identical in all respects to the one the Dubs had. The Cusack Stand ones are a little bit smaller, but Louth didn't have to suffer that.
At least it'll be Kildare with all these crucial advantages in the round robin. Maybe you'll comment on the game, but given you never go to any of the games, I'd say that's unlikely and you'll be your usual bitter self. Still no positive comment about the U20s. You didn't even watch the game.
Quote from: Hound on May 14, 2023, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: mup on May 14, 2023, 05:56:55 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Did they get their dressing room of choice today? And I presume they wamed up at Hill 16 end.
They did. It made all the difference.
Although disappointed to hear Louth also got a Hogan Stand dressing room, which is identical in all respects to the one the Dubs had. The Cusack Stand ones are a little bit smaller, but Louth didn't have to suffer that.
At least it'll be Kildare with all these crucial advantages in the round robin. Maybe you'll comment on the game, but given you never go to any of the games, I'd say that's unlikely and you'll be your usual bitter self. Still no positive comment about the U20s. You didn't even watch the game.
And here's me thinking the dressing rooms were allocated alphabetically.
Leinster football is in a mess. Since Ross Munnelly retired no current player who isn't a Dub has won a Leinster senior medal.
20 years ago Laois and Westmeath won Leinster. Meath's last all ireland was 1999. Dublin have won 18 of the last 19 Leinster finals.
7 of the counties are in the Tailteann including Meath .
Meath
Offaly
Laois
Wicklow
Longford
Carlow
Wexford
Of the Sam Maguire teams, Westmeath couldn't get out of D3 and Kildare were in the bottom half of D2. Louth make the most of their resources but they can't compete at the top table.
Quote from: mup on May 14, 2023, 06:10:30 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 14, 2023, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: mup on May 14, 2023, 05:56:55 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Did they get their dressing room of choice today? And I presume they wamed up at Hill 16 end.
They did. It made all the difference.
Although disappointed to hear Louth also got a Hogan Stand dressing room, which is identical in all respects to the one the Dubs had. The Cusack Stand ones are a little bit smaller, but Louth didn't have to suffer that.
At least it'll be Kildare with all these crucial advantages in the round robin. Maybe you'll comment on the game, but given you never go to any of the games, I'd say that's unlikely and you'll be your usual bitter self. Still no positive comment about the U20s. You didn't even watch the game.
And here's me thinking the dressing rooms were allocated alphabetically.
That's a good idea to think before you post. You should try and do that more often.
Yep, they are.
Hogan Stand 1 and 2 are identical. The Cusack Stand ones are also identical to each other but slightly smaller than the Hogan Stand ones. When there is just one game on, both teams get the Hogan Stand dressing rooms. When there are two games on, the teams playing in the first game get the Cusack Stand dressing rooms.
Between 1891 and 2002 Dublin won 42 Leinster titles
Between 2005 and now Dublin won 18.
The difference is competition.
Nobody's beating Dublin in Croker playing like that, only maybe Kerry.
You need them out in provincial grounds without the home comforts, and fair refereeing. Then we might get a competitive match....maybe!
Quote from: Hound on May 14, 2023, 06:44:05 PM
Quote from: mup on May 14, 2023, 06:10:30 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 14, 2023, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: mup on May 14, 2023, 05:56:55 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Did they get their dressing room of choice today? And I presume they wamed up at Hill 16 end.
They did. It made all the difference.
Although disappointed to hear Louth also got a Hogan Stand dressing room, which is identical in all respects to the one the Dubs had. The Cusack Stand ones are a little bit smaller, but Louth didn't have to suffer that.
At least it'll be Kildare with all these crucial advantages in the round robin. Maybe you'll comment on the game, but given you never go to any of the games, I'd say that's unlikely and you'll be your usual bitter self. Still no positive comment about the U20s. You didn't even watch the game.
And here's me thinking the dressing rooms were allocated alphabetically.
That's a good idea to think before you post. You should try and do that more often.
Yep, they are.
Hogan Stand 1 and 2 are identical. The Cusack Stand ones are also identical to each other but slightly smaller than the Hogan Stand ones. When there is just one game on, both teams get the Hogan Stand dressing rooms. When there are two games on, the teams playing in the first game get the Cusack Stand dressing rooms.
Then how did Dublin get same dressing room today?
do dublin and kerry even do speeches anymore when winning provincial titles
As some Kerry player once said "Put me down as saying whatever I said last year"
Awesome display by the Dubs today. It was a pleasure to watch them. Once they broke Louth's early grip on the game the Dubs were devastating throughout the field. Louth were totally outclassed, but in fairness they battled to the end. One sour note was the insistent booing by the Louth supporters of the Dublin free-takers - although I don't think that it caused frees to be missed.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on May 14, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Awesome display by the Dubs today. It was a pleasure to watch them. Once they broke Louth's early grip on the game the Dubs were devastating throughout the field. Louth were totally outclassed, but in fairness they battled to the end. One sour note was the insistent booing by the Louth supporters of the Dublin free-takers - although I don't think that it caused frees to be missed.
Well you're one of the few that are enthusiastic about it - there weren't too many Dubs that could muster up the enthusiasm to wander down to watch it.
Quote from: Tubberman on May 14, 2023, 09:32:24 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on May 14, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Awesome display by the Dubs today. It was a pleasure to watch them. Once they broke Louth's early grip on the game the Dubs were devastating throughout the field. Louth were totally outclassed, but in fairness they battled to the end. One sour note was the insistent booing by the Louth supporters of the Dublin free-takers - although I don't think that it caused frees to be missed.
Well you're one of the few that are enthusiastic about it - there weren't too many Dubs that could muster up the enthusiasm to wander down to watch it.
There was a crowd of 40,000 at the game with about half that number from Dublin. Not bad really.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on May 14, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Awesome display by the Dubs today. It was a pleasure to watch them. Once they broke Louth's early grip on the game the Dubs were devastating throughout the field. Louth were totally outclassed, but in fairness they battled to the end. One sour note was the insistent booing by the Louth supporters of the Dublin free-takers - although I don't think that it caused frees to be missed.
Never heard the hill or any Dublin support ever enforce soccer antics in fairness to them, they wouldnt stoop to that level of booing
There is a more 'luckier' changing room in the Hogan stand, as you go in from the pitch the one on the left is the one that's had the most wins apparently
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2023, 06:48:46 PM
Between 1891 and 2002 Dublin won 42 Leinster titles
Between 2005 and now Dublin won 18.
The difference is competition.
Some day we hope to overtake Kerry's 82 Munster titles. Be a while coming though.
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Whatever about AI series games (and I agree with you that Dublin's ones should be outside of Dublin), the Leinster Council is the body that decides where Dublin's games will be held. And its near unanimous decision is Croke Park.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 15, 2023, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Dublin Croke Park advantage needs addressing, not that it would stop them much.
Surely they aren't going to get 2 home matches in Sam Maguire groups? Even Leinster semi final has no business in Croker.
I would not have QFs in Croker either if they are
Whatever about AI series games (and I agree with you that Dublin's ones should be outside of Dublin), the Leinster Council is the body that decides where Dublin's games will be held. And its near unanimous decision is Croke Park.
If Dublin had have played Louth on Mickey Harte's front lawn they would still have won by 20 points or whatever it was.
Dublin get nothing out of steamrolling Leinster. Get them into the Ulster Championship. The Leinster Championship would probably be deadly if Dublin weren't in it.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 15, 2023, 12:41:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2023, 06:48:46 PM
Between 1891 and 2002 Dublin won 42 Leinster titles
Between 2005 and now Dublin won 18.
The difference is competition.
Some day we hope to overtake Kerry's 82 Munster titles. Be a while coming though.
Thats like comparing Apples and Oranges. Munster is a hurling province. Kerry only really have Cork to worry about. The majority of Cork people don't have a hoot about football aside from West Cork.
(https://i.ibb.co/MV1Q6fP/Screenshot-20230515-042215-2.png) (https://ibb.co/DCMTpYw)
:-[ Jesus that makes for some grim reading. Watching the Sunday Game a few years back, and one of the hacks said about Laois "they just need to get better".
This is from 2019. The whole thing is very sad. The deserted football competition
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/dublin-are-so-far-ahead-that-leinster-is-beyond-repair-1.3920177
Dublin are so far ahead that Leinster is beyond repair
Tipping Point: Fans know how it will end – no wonder they don't bother their barney to go
Malachy Clerkin
On the walk into Croke Park on Sunday, just down at the corner where the Hogan Stand meets Hill 16, two metallers stood gawping at the edifice in front of them. That's right, metallers. One bald, one hirsute, both in cargo shorts, black T-shirts, Slayer, Megadeth, the whole bit. If you were to guess they had been to Slane on Saturday for Metallica, they could not have been offended by your presumption.
They were German, but one of them had been here before and he was explaining to his mate that this huge stadium was going to be filled today for the Dublin football team. Croke Park never looks bigger than it does at that corner, where you can peer in through the gate and see the seven floors of seats rise up around the bowl, with the sheer terrace of the Hill off to your left. In the imagination, before the stiles open on a matchday, it's a wondrous place.
Had they chanced it and looked about popping inside for the afternoon, we all know their wonder would have taken a fair battering. But they were only passing through and had no notion of going to the games, so it would have been pointless to interrupt them with the truth. What would you say, anyway?
"Well actually chaps, the place will only be about a third full. Time was, you'd get seventy-odd thousand in here for a Leinster semi-final double-header, but Dublin have only lost one game in the competition in 15 years so nobody bothers their barney anymore. Hope they rocked the gaff for ye down in Slane because this place will be like a Monday afternoon cinema visit."
Which it was. As the Meath and Laois teams warmed up on the pitch 15 minutes before the first game, the Cusack Stand had fewer than 1,000 people in it. That's no vague estimate – they were easily counted. Not alone could you hear the teams going through their warm-ups, you could all but hear the grass grow underneath them. You'd feel a greater sense of occasion paying your car tax.
Blue Billywig Video PlayerPerfectly harmless
Meath and Laois played out a perfectly harmless semi-final. At times, when Donal Keogan or Bryan Menton or Cillian O'Sullivan would plant a flag for Meath, you allowed your mind to go crazy and imagined the place rocking with hard-chaws from Navan and Skryne and Ashbourne a fortnight from now. But then you remembered that it was the Leinster Championship we're talking about here, and sure Ashbourne is full of Dubs now anyway.
And then Dublin came out and did what Dublin do to everyone in the province and have done for pretty much the whole decade. It was 15 points yesterday; it will be the same again or something like it in the final. The Leinster Championship is a non-competition.
Meath's Donal Keogan and Robert Pigott of Laois during their Leinster Championship semi-final match at Croke Park, Dublin, on Sunday. Photograph: Ryan Byrne/Inpho
As the Meath and Laois teams warmed up before the first game, the Cusack Stand had fewer than 1,000 people in it
This thing is broken. It really is. You can get smothered under the avalanche of numbers when it comes to how far Dublin are ahead of everyone, and yet the beauty of sport is that everything is measurable. These are hunches or swings in the dark. Sport tells you what the story is and it tells you right between the eyes.
Yesterday was Dublin's 20th Leinster Championship game since Jim Gavin took the reins at the start of 2013. They have, of course, won all 20. No great leap forward there – they won 22 of the 23 they played before he took over, going all the way back to the start of 2005.
But the margins have ballooned beyond all proportion to what went before. Of those 20 wins under Gavin, 18 have been by 10 points or more. The other two were by seven and nine: the Leinster finals of 2013 and 2017. For comparison, in those beano years between 2005 and 2012 when Dublin won seven titles out of eight in the province, they only put up five double-digit wins altogether. Essentially, they've gone from handing out double-digit beatings 22 per cent of the time to doing it 90 per cent of the time.
Regenerate
Thing is, nobody can see a way for it to be any different anytime soon. Dublin's ability to refresh and regenerate their playing squad is apparently set in train for generations at this stage. They took the field on Sunday with Dean Rock and Jonny Cooper not on the panel through injury, and with Eoin Murchan and Philly McMahon on the bench. Darren Gavin is this year's new addition; Paddy Small came on to snipe a point. Dublin will have footballers as long as there is football.
The numbers for this semi-final double-header have been steadily dwindling across the decade
Will anyone in Leinster still care, though? When they announced the attendance at half-time in the second game here, the figure of 36,126 was met with a few nodding heads and raised eyebrows. Not because it was so low, more because it was generally expected to be lower still. There had been talk beforehand of them struggling to get 30,000 through the gates.
That will happen in time, surely. The numbers for this semi-final double-header have been steadily dwindling across the decade, from 58,000 in 2011 to 51,000 in 2015 to 36,000 this year. Where does this end? Where does it go?
With supremely odd timing, the GAA put out a press release at 4.50pm on Sunday afternoon, just as the second half was getting under way in the Dublin game. It was to announce the names and aims of the taskforce set up to take a wholesale look at fixtures in the GAA and try to find a workable calendar, with everything on the table and up for grabs. And you can only bid them godspeed, not an easy task ahead of them, etc, etc.
The Leinster Championship is a bolted horse, though. Whatever they come up with, there's no fixing what it has become.
Sad is indeed an apt word. I used to love the excitement of the Leinster Championship. Where the likes of Laois, Kildare, Meath and Westmeath could beat Dublin. Not it's only a pipedream.
Then you have people asking why the likes of Meath and Kildare with their populations cannot match the likes of Kerry, Mayo or Donegal. When you have a team which has had millions pumped into them so far ahead of the rest why would you bother. The likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal can win provincial honours. Meath and Kildare don't even have that to look forward too.
It really was a scandalous act by the GAA.
Sporting vandalism
Kildare could and maybe should be capable of making their mark at some point. Meath too, hopefully, will bounce back. You'd have very little still if you put the rest of us together. It just doesn't work and there's no way nowadays of achieving sustained parity. I don't know why it's acceptable that Wicklow have never won a Leinster Championship or that the rest of us should soldier on. It's not even sport in all honesty
I don't know why the other counties don't follow Kilkenny and boycott the competition.
We might not have actually boycotted, but in many ways we signed out years ago. From a Laois point of view, we seem to exist only to get our CB officers further up the ladder. We're punch drunk at this stage. The batterings don't even hurt
It's not just a Leinster problem. It also severely damages competition levels in the Sam Maguire. You can't take 2 big counties out and expect the system to work as normal.
The GAA also damaged its main competition.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/17/sean-moran-there-are-simply-too-many-teams-in-the-all-ireland-round-robin/
Last year the quarter-finals returned but the margins were still averaging more than 0-8 and that included the Galway-Armagh tie that went to penalties. Without it the other three averaged 0-11.
So the last eight contenders for Sam Maguire were producing matches that were generally uncompetitive. This year the big chance being taken is that the round-robin field is being doubled from eight to 16.
If there was an abiding anxiety about this within the GAA it was concerning dead rubbers – matches that would mean nothing in the greater scheme of things and on all known evidence discourage crowds from attending.
If the Sam Maguire is viewed as simply a prioritising competition the continued hard-wiring of the provincial championships into the All-Ireland makes little sense. If, however, the concept of getting a shot at the big time is still important the current system is an ingenious way of offering a glimpse of motivation to counties outside the top half of the league.
Where it takes them isn't immediately obvious and the suspicion remains that there are too many teams in the round-robin series.
Honestly couldn't give a monkeys about the Sam Maguire. That's pie in the sky stuff for most counties. Our own province is completely out of reach to us. There is no plan for the like of us so let the big boys go on about their business instead of using us for a rollover
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1340326486474186753
Quote from: High Fielder on May 16, 2023, 07:02:45 PM
Kildare could and maybe should be capable of making their mark at some point. Meath too, hopefully, will bounce back. You'd have very little still if you put the rest of us together. It just doesn't work and there's no way nowadays of achieving sustained parity. I don't know why it's acceptable that Wicklow have never won a Leinster Championship or that the rest of us should soldier on. It's not even sport in all honesty
How is that different to most Munster teams and Leitrim in Connacht?
Antrim in Ulster also have almost no chance of winning Ulster
Meath and Kildare have been a disgrace the last 20 years. No other word for it
Quote from: Hound on May 17, 2023, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 16, 2023, 07:02:45 PM
Kildare could and maybe should be capable of making their mark at some point. Meath too, hopefully, will bounce back. You'd have very little still if you put the rest of us together. It just doesn't work and there's no way nowadays of achieving sustained parity. I don't know why it's acceptable that Wicklow have never won a Leinster Championship or that the rest of us should soldier on. It's not even sport in all honesty
How is that different to most Munster teams and Leitrim in Connacht?
Antrim in Ulster also have almost no chance of winning Ulster
Meath and Kildare have been a disgrace the last 20 years. No other word for it
There is another word. Shafted.
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 17, 2023, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 16, 2023, 07:02:45 PM
Kildare could and maybe should be capable of making their mark at some point. Meath too, hopefully, will bounce back. You'd have very little still if you put the rest of us together. It just doesn't work and there's no way nowadays of achieving sustained parity. I don't know why it's acceptable that Wicklow have never won a Leinster Championship or that the rest of us should soldier on. It's not even sport in all honesty
How is that different to most Munster teams and Leitrim in Connacht?
Antrim in Ulster also have almost no chance of winning Ulster
Meath and Kildare have been a disgrace the last 20 years. No other word for it
There is another word. Shafted.
Exactly. See millions pumped into your neighbours while you get some spare change. They are so high up on the throne they cant even see it.
Since 2010 11 counties in the 3 other provinces have won titles. Only 1 in Leinster has .
Derry Galway Tipperary
Donegal Roscommon Cork
Tyrone Mayo Kerry
Monaghan
Cavan
Listen to the recent Pat Gilroy interview on the Joe Brolly/Dion Fanning podcast if you want to get a flavour re how Dublin went from underachievers at a similar level to Kildare and Meath to being among the best, and then the best of the best. But I guarantee 100% that mup and seafoid will not as they love their illusion. Let them continue to think it's young lads/lasses going into primary schools to give PE lessons to children that's made the difference. 😆😆
It was money. It certainly wasn't sport.
Quote from: sensini on May 29, 2023, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: mup on May 17, 2023, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 17, 2023, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 16, 2023, 07:02:45 PM
Kildare could and maybe should be capable of making their mark at some point. Meath too, hopefully, will bounce back. You'd have very little still if you put the rest of us together. It just doesn't work and there's no way nowadays of achieving sustained parity. I don't know why it's acceptable that Wicklow have never won a Leinster Championship or that the rest of us should soldier on. It's not even sport in all honesty
How is that different to most Munster teams and Leitrim in Connacht?
Antrim in Ulster also have almost no chance of winning Ulster
Meath and Kildare have been a disgrace the last 20 years. No other word for it
There is another word. Shafted.
Exactly. See millions pumped into your neighbours while you get some spare change. They are so high up on the throne they cant even see it.
Kildare weren't shy in spending either. Sean Johnson investment was a wise one considering the up surge in kildare hurley in recent years.
Enlighten me. How much did the Seanie Johnston (not Johnson) investment cost?