Penalty for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity

[Hound]

Agree with J70 that an automatic penalty for something like we saw at the weekend is warranted.   Soccer has, or used to have, something like this, didn't it?  It wasn't unmanageabley difficult to oversee, was it?

Red card in soccer. No penalty kick if foul occurs outside the box, just a normal free same as GAA.

[Laois Rising]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.     

[Milltown Row2]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.   

So I'll ask the question again, has any of the changes made, been an improvement on the game? O r do players and managers just adopt to the rules and then we are asking for new changes?

[dublin7]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.   

So I'll ask the question again, has any of the changes made, been an improvement on the game? O r do players and managers just adopt to the rules and then we are asking for new changes?

I think the black card has worked in football. Would Eoin Murchan have been allowed run through and score his goal against Kerry if a player could have pulled him down with just a yellow card for punishment. It's led to more goals in general in football as players are far less willing to take down a player knowing a black card was coming and that would be the end of the game for them.

It really stand out in hurling now the difference not having a black card. Almost any time a CB gets turned these days he pulls down the forward for a yellow card to stop him scoring a yellow card. The Galway CB did take it to a new level by grabbing the Kilkenny player's hurl to stop him going in for a goal last weekend.   

[johnnycool]

Foul play shouldn't pay.
Unfortunately in Gaelic football it does pay and even more so in Hurley stuff.

Agreed.

[johnnycool]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.   

So I'll ask the question again, has any of the changes made, been an improvement on the game? O r do players and managers just adopt to the rules and then we are asking for new changes?

I think the black card has worked in football. Would Eoin Murchan have been allowed run through and score his goal against Kerry if a player could have pulled him down with just a yellow card for punishment. It's led to more goals in general in football as players are far less willing to take down a player knowing a black card was coming and that would be the end of the game for them.

It really stand out in hurling now the difference not having a black card. Almost any time a CB gets turned these days he pulls down the forward for a yellow card to stop him scoring a yellow card. The Galway CB did take it to a new level by grabbing the Kilkenny player's hurl to stop him going in for a goal last weekend.

The other way round. Huw Lawlor (KK) was beat all ends up by Niall Burke (GW) and just held onto his hurl for dear life.

Unacceptable.

[Angelo]

Players are through on goals a lot, how many are scored? Missed or pointed or keeper pulls off save?

Pull down in box penalty, anywhere else black card. Simple

Why is it that football always looking changes, can use Cnuts just not be fair minded Gaels like the hurlers?

Black cards player off, then black card player off for ten minutes, kick out mark, now forward mark. Changed square ball rule, 5 subs .. yellow cards rescinded for extra time, black cards remain.....

So many rule changes. You want Refs now to give a penalty and red card for someone, Alleged 'clean through' who'd probably miss ffs! Can you imagine that in a club championship game? Refs would be strung up on some tree outside the club house!

There's no punishment for what McLaughlin did too.

Would he have done it if he knew he'd miss an All Ireland semi final do you think?

Maybe, maybe not.

If he didn't do it, there's a fair chance they'd have lost the game.

A red card for him should mean missing the All-Ireland semi-final, but at least his team would be there.

He did it because "I loves me County", even if it cost his own appearance in the semi-final (or final if in a later game).

What would the appropriate sanction for doing it in the All-Ireland final, preserving the win?  Miss 3 league games, or next two provincial games?  Take that punishment gladly and party on in Castlebar or Omagh or Killarney or wherever with Sam for the winter, with the aggressor now a hero.

There's also a fair chance Kelly would have missed and Mayo would have won.

The fact is there was no real deterrent there for that foul, if it had been a red card and suspension - he would a genuinely difficult choice to that would have some cost to him for doing so. As it was he had an easy choice to make, take the black card and the win, he'll be available for the semi-final anyway.

The other option I suggested is that from the 60th minute onward, if the foul takes place inside the 45 yard line then its a red card and automatic penalty. So that's the motivation for a player to not commit a professional foul.

It has to be about punishing cynical play rather than making it an easy decision for a player. The game at the top level is all about winning, if committing a foul brings more reward than only trying to play the ball fairly then for any player for a serious team it's an easy decision.

[Milltown Row2]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.   

So I'll ask the question again, has any of the changes made, been an improvement on the game? O r do players and managers just adopt to the rules and then we are asking for new changes?

I think the black card has worked in football. Would Eoin Murchan have been allowed run through and score his goal against Kerry if a player could have pulled him down with just a yellow card for punishment. It's led to more goals in general in football as players are far less willing to take down a player knowing a black card was coming and that would be the end of the game for them.

It really stand out in hurling now the difference not having a black card. Almost any time a CB gets turned these days he pulls down the forward for a yellow card to stop him scoring a yellow card. The Galway CB did take it to a new level by grabbing the Kilkenny player's hurl to stop him going in for a goal last weekend.

The other way round. Huw Lawlor (KK) was beat all ends up by Niall Burke (GW) and just held onto his hurl for dear life.

Unacceptable.

Players hold hurls in every game, that would be a serious amount of black cards.. I'll try it out some time in your neck of the woods lol

[dublin7]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.   

So I'll ask the question again, has any of the changes made, been an improvement on the game? O r do players and managers just adopt to the rules and then we are asking for new changes?

I think the black card has worked in football. Would Eoin Murchan have been allowed run through and score his goal against Kerry if a player could have pulled him down with just a yellow card for punishment. It's led to more goals in general in football as players are far less willing to take down a player knowing a black card was coming and that would be the end of the game for them.

It really stand out in hurling now the difference not having a black card. Almost any time a CB gets turned these days he pulls down the forward for a yellow card to stop him scoring a yellow card. The Galway CB did take it to a new level by grabbing the Kilkenny player's hurl to stop him going in for a goal last weekend.

The other way round. Huw Lawlor (KK) was beat all ends up by Niall Burke (GW) and just held onto his hurl for dear life.

Unacceptable.

Players hold hurls in every game, that would be a serious amount of black cards.. I'll try it out some time in your neck of the woods lol

99% of the time they hold they own hurls though not their opponents. Donal Og was on punditry duty for the game and he was calling for the black card to be introduced to hurling to deal with cynical fouls like that.

[Rossfan]

Asking hurley refs to enforce rules
Ah here..... them lads don't want any oul football practices coming into their pure saintly game.

[johnnycool]

To the posters saying you should stop tinkering with the rules of football you have to remember that football is now being played very differently to what it was. Therefore, rules need to adapt to meet the demands on the modern game. You adapt or you die- personally I would like to an end to players being high fived, praised and rewarded for rugby tackling their opponents to stop goal scoring changes accruing. It's such a simple change to implement and at least trial during the national league for example. We have had some crazy rule changes trialed e.g. number of handpasses in a row, three players on the line for a penalty taken outside the 21. This is a logical rule change to meet an obvious blight on our game. Why not trial it to see if it eradicates this blight. With the competitive nature of the national league and high number of close games we probably won't have to wait too long to see if the rule change is a success or not.   

So I'll ask the question again, has any of the changes made, been an improvement on the game? O r do players and managers just adopt to the rules and then we are asking for new changes?

I think the black card has worked in football. Would Eoin Murchan have been allowed run through and score his goal against Kerry if a player could have pulled him down with just a yellow card for punishment. It's led to more goals in general in football as players are far less willing to take down a player knowing a black card was coming and that would be the end of the game for them.

It really stand out in hurling now the difference not having a black card. Almost any time a CB gets turned these days he pulls down the forward for a yellow card to stop him scoring a yellow card. The Galway CB did take it to a new level by grabbing the Kilkenny player's hurl to stop him going in for a goal last weekend.

The other way round. Huw Lawlor (KK) was beat all ends up by Niall Burke (GW) and just held onto his hurl for dear life.

Unacceptable.

Players hold hurls in every game, that would be a serious amount of black cards.. I'll try it out some time in your neck of the woods lol

ha ha.   

Next time you can give big Magic the odd free when there's two or three lads hanging out of him, that would be a good start.

Hated hurl holders, the only cure was to pull the hurl out of their hands and drive it into their ribs.

[J70]

Foul play shouldn't pay.
Unfortunately in Gaelic football it does pay and even more so in Hurley stuff.

Agreed.

I was listening to the Irish Indo's Throw-In podcast on the weekend's games.

Michael Verney was effusively praising McLoughlin for hacking down the Galway player, saying it showed his maturity and football intelligence, even though he's a young lad.

That's where we at on this issue.

Its not blatant, unsportsman-like cheating. Its clear thinking under pressure, a sign of a good player, well able for intercounty.

"Sure they're all at it. So what if its cheating? If they don't do it, the other team will"

[Milltown Row2]

Look let me go over some stuff, cynical play is always dealt with, yellow or red card in hurling, black card in football. If a player is in the 45 and player takes him out, are we now asking for a red card followed by a penalty?

That's now in hurling and football?

Some calls are very difficult to call, so when a player use opponents arm to look as if he'd been dragged down, ref not in a better position that the 12 cameras at the game, calls it, player sent off, penalty,  and it's the wrong decision?

And now we are putting in holding hurls in that bracket?

[dublin7]

Look let me go over some stuff, cynical play is always dealt with, yellow or red card in hurling, black card in football. If a player is in the 45 and player takes him out, are we now asking for a red card followed by a penalty?

That's now in hurling and football?

Some calls are very difficult to call, so when a player use opponents arm to look as if he'd been dragged down, ref not in a better position that the 12 cameras at the game, calls it, player sent off, penalty,  and it's the wrong decision?

And now we are putting in holding hurls in that bracket?

If you'd seen how blatant it was on Saturday, then yes you would. Denied the player a clear goal scoring chance just the same as if he'd rugby tackled him to the ground.

Basketball, Soccer, rugby have rules for clear and cynical foul play. Even baseball which is almost a non contact sport has rules as well for cynical foul play.

[Milltown Row2]

Look let me go over some stuff, cynical play is always dealt with, yellow or red card in hurling, black card in football. If a player is in the 45 and player takes him out, are we now asking for a red card followed by a penalty?

That's now in hurling and football?

Some calls are very difficult to call, so when a player use opponents arm to look as if he'd been dragged down, ref not in a better position that the 12 cameras at the game, calls it, player sent off, penalty,  and it's the wrong decision?

And now we are putting in holding hurls in that bracket?

If you'd seen how blatant it was on Saturday, then yes you would. Denied the player a clear goal scoring chance just the same as if he'd rugby tackled him to the ground.

Basketball, Soccer, rugby have rules for clear and cynical foul play. Even baseball which is almost a non contact sport has rules as well for cynical foul play.

I watched all the games at the weekend, I didn't come away thinking that we need to start giving penalties and red cards from the 45 yard line as it might, might be a goal opportunity.

You'll be giving red card for pulling jerseys next, as hold a hurl is no different