The Future of Dublin Football (according to Colm O'Rourke)

[Dinny Breen]

as long as your OK. The AI, and in particular the Leinster Championship are farcical atm. What was your thoughts whilst watching the Leinster draw these last few years??

Agreed. But Kildare and Meath have to take a some portion of the responsibility. While Dublin have improved hugely in the last decade, they haven't even stood still. And they haven't got the de-population excuses that many counties have. If they were at the Mayo/Kerry level (which they should be), then we would have had decent games in Leinster every year. Cork are similarly gone to sheight for no apparent reason. But that's an aside.

What O'Rourke is of course right in is identifying migration out of rural towns and villages as having a huge impact on the competitiveness of many counties, and that's only going to get worse. But his "solution" (the splitting of Dublin) doesn't in any way address the problem!

It's a bigger issue than the GAA, as he mentioned it's post offices, garda stations, pubs, shops, etc etc all on the decrease. The IDA gives employment grants to companies who set up outside Dublin (X thousand per head). Maybe that should be extended to companies who choose to move jobs from Dublin to country (outside commuter belt). And Charlie McCreevy's decentralisation program should be re-hashed. It would have helped a whole heap had they had the balls to push it through. No doubt it would have pissed off a thousand people or so (for a short time only I suggest - I'm sure it's lovely living down the country in the fresh air, cheaper pints  , less crowded classrooms etc), but it would have a huge positive impact for local economies, and local GAA clubs!

Really not sure how splitting Kilmacud makes any difference. They struggle as it is to find pitches for all their teams.

Ha! It's Kildare and Meath's fault!!!!! 

[passedit]

Well said O'Rourke...

I see it here in Limerick, na. piarsaigh grow into a Kilmavud Crokes while other city clubs flounder and west limerick continues to be depopulated

How do you do resolve that issue? Splitting a County like Dublin is one thing where there are natural demarcation lines but a club is a more grass roots organisation.
I don't know the geography of the Na Piarsigh nor the Dublin club catchment areas but I cannot see how you would split out a club to create a new one bar the traditional row and walk out.

I propose a new steering committee for Dublin headed by Mickey Harte and staffed exclusively by Arles (Killeen/Kilcruise/Killanybodythatmoves) natives. That should do it.

[Hound]

as long as your OK. The AI, and in particular the Leinster Championship are farcical atm. What was your thoughts whilst watching the Leinster draw these last few years??

Agreed. But Kildare and Meath have to take a some portion of the responsibility. While Dublin have improved hugely in the last decade, they haven't even stood still. And they haven't got the de-population excuses that many counties have. If they were at the Mayo/Kerry level (which they should be), then we would have had decent games in Leinster every year. Cork are similarly gone to sheight for no apparent reason. But that's an aside.

What O'Rourke is of course right in is identifying migration out of rural towns and villages as having a huge impact on the competitiveness of many counties, and that's only going to get worse. But his "solution" (the splitting of Dublin) doesn't in any way address the problem!

It's a bigger issue than the GAA, as he mentioned it's post offices, garda stations, pubs, shops, etc etc all on the decrease. The IDA gives employment grants to companies who set up outside Dublin (X thousand per head). Maybe that should be extended to companies who choose to move jobs from Dublin to country (outside commuter belt). And Charlie McCreevy's decentralisation program should be re-hashed. It would have helped a whole heap had they had the balls to push it through. No doubt it would have pissed off a thousand people or so (for a short time only I suggest - I'm sure it's lovely living down the country in the fresh air, cheaper pints  , less crowded classrooms etc), but it would have a huge positive impact for local economies, and local GAA clubs!

Really not sure how splitting Kilmacud makes any difference. They struggle as it is to find pitches for all their teams.

Ha! It's Kildare and Meath's fault!!!!! 

Yep, that's exactly what I said 

Lillyshitebags have been a disgrace to the jersey, etc.

[Captain Obvious]

Wasn't Colm O'Rourke one of those people that said in 2011 Dublin winning the All Ireland would be great for the football championship?

[From the Bunker]

I think we should leave well enough alone. These events happen in cycles. Splitting Dublin in half would be a disaster for Dublin as it would create more of a level playing field and nullify their recent monopoly on Gaelic football. Better to leave it as it is. Sooner or later some Leinster County might fluke a title and think of the euphoria that will bring to that county. There may be a half full stadium to witness it. But it will have been worth the long wait.

Just sit back and enjoy this era for what it is Dublin domination.

[Rossfan]

Or Laythrum might just work harder......

[tonto1888]

Say Dublin was split in two. What would happen then when either Dublin north or Dublin south win the next 6 All Ireland's between them

[mup]

as long as your OK. The AI, and in particular the Leinster Championship are farcical atm. What was your thoughts whilst watching the Leinster draw these last few years??

Agreed. But Kildare and Meath have to take a some portion of the responsibility. While Dublin have improved hugely in the last decade, they haven't even stood still. And they haven't got the de-population excuses that many counties have. If they were at the Mayo/Kerry level (which they should be), then we would have had decent games in Leinster every year. Cork are similarly gone to sheight for no apparent reason. But that's an aside.

What O'Rourke is of course right in is identifying migration out of rural towns and villages as having a huge impact on the competitiveness of many counties, and that's only going to get worse. But his "solution" (the splitting of Dublin) doesn't in any way address the problem!

It's a bigger issue than the GAA, as he mentioned it's post offices, garda stations, pubs, shops, etc etc all on the decrease. The IDA gives employment grants to companies who set up outside Dublin (X thousand per head). Maybe that should be extended to companies who choose to move jobs from Dublin to country (outside commuter belt). And Charlie McCreevy's decentralisation program should be re-hashed. It would have helped a whole heap had they had the balls to push it through. No doubt it would have pissed off a thousand people or so (for a short time only I suggest - I'm sure it's lovely living down the country in the fresh air, cheaper pints  , less crowded classrooms etc), but it would have a huge positive impact for local economies, and local GAA clubs!

Really not sure how splitting Kilmacud makes any difference. They struggle as it is to find pitches for all their teams.

Ha! It's Kildare and Meath's fault!!!!! 

You couldn't make it up.

Despite the fact that Kildare have won their first AI title since 1965 he reckons they 'haven't even stood still'.

There are none as blind as those who cannot see.

[Hound]

Despite the fact that Kildare have won their first AI title since 1965 he reckons they 'haven't even stood still'.
There are none as blind as those who cannot see.

So in this period of Dublin domination (2011 to 2018), you are disputing that Kildare "haven't even stood still"?  Indeed "there are none as blind as those who cannot see".

In 2011, Dublin beat Kildare by 1 point in Leinster. (A single solitary point!). Kildare brushed aside Ulster runners up Derry in the qualifiers and played a great game against Donegal in the quarter-finals.  It was a very even game, could have gone either way, level after 70 mins, and took a once-in-a-lifetime score by a Donegal half back to win it with virtually the last kick of the game at the end of extra time.

In 2012, after losing to Meath in Leinster, Kildare re-grouped and won 3 games in the qualifiers (nice enough draws in fairness) to get back to the quarter-finals. To win the All Ireland, Kildare would have needed to beat Cork, Donegal and Mayo. Donegal, who were at pretty much the exact same level as Kildare just one year previously, beat both Cork and Mayo to win the All Ireland. Whereas Kildare got well beaten by Cork and the dream died. The regression had begun and not even a sign of those big bully Dubs.

The regression of course continued in the subsequent years. Losing to Westmeath, Meath and humiliated by Carlow in Leinster. Surrenderings against Dublin (16 pts, 19 pts and 9 pts), Kerry (27 pts) (jeez, good job you're not in Munster lads and have to play Kerry every year!) and Mayo (9 pts). White flag, take my short pants down and slap me on the arse, surrenderings. 

Finally we've seen some progression post the Carlow humiliation last year. Still not to the level of the 2011 team, but at least promise that things are going in the right direction.
In all those years, Kildare teams at underage have never feared the Dubs, and hopefully some of them will come through to get some backbone back into the white jersey. Because splitting Dublin will not improve Kildare! Kildare needs to improve Kildare.

[TheGreatest]

I agree with a lot about what he says and some good points made above about large towns, I.E one team in Portlaose of 15k etc.

But this:

The very obvious thing to do is to divide Dublin up into several different teams. That suggestion causes palpitations among the Dublin hierarchy who just want to let the good times roll. That recommendation was made more than 15 years ago by a committee of top brains in Croke Park but has been ignored by all those at central level since, and of course Dublin swept it under the carpet as fast as possible. There it remains, depriving hundreds of young Dublin footballers of playing underage for some Dublin team and ensuring great adult footballers are frozen out.

Would Dublin supporters warm to these divisions and turn out in numbers in Croke Park? Would there be more at Dublin Fingal versus Dublin South than Dublin against Wicklow or Wexford? Even Jim Gavin can't make that look exciting. The present Leinster Championship is a dead duck. It is not retrievable. Hoping that something will turn up is not a policy.

1. Over my dead body and the body of all Dublin supporters.
2. If it did happen I would never support a divisional Dublin team, I know others wouldnt either.

as long as your OK. The AI, and in particular the Leinster Championship are farcical atm. What was your thoughts whilst watching the Leinster draw these last few years??

Being honest, in the noughties getting embarrassed out the door in Croke Park and some absolutely devastating defeats, since then I have preached that the only thing that matters is the AI quarter final onwards. Straight knockout. I take the league more seriously than Leinster and not really bothered by it. The league is great competition and a pity it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

I am in the 2 tier revamp boat, I go as far to get rid of provisional or play them separately early season to Champions league format 4 x 4.

[east down gael]

There are only 6 competitions really worth winning at the start of the year.national league,four provincials and obviously the all ireland.you are advocating getting rid of four of them.the only thing keeping county football alive in some counties is the chance of winning an Ulster or a Connaught.counties in Leinster don't even have that small hope to cling on to.
   County football is in terminal decline not just because of the entertainment on offer,but also because many counties are playing without a full hand.some of the most talented players are opting out as there is no chance of winning anything.and for the commitment level required these days,you have to at least have a slim chance of winning.
   If Dublin were split in two,say north and south,both would automatically be in the top 3 or 4 favourites to win Sam.it would revitalise the championship I think.i can understand Dublin supporters being against it,but honestly if something isn't done soon the all ireland won't really be worth winning.the decline of county football isn't something that might happen,we are already far down the road i would suggest in at least 20 if not more counties.

[TheGreatest]

There are only 6 competitions really worth winning at the start of the year.national league,four provincials and obviously the all ireland.you are advocating getting rid of four of them.the only thing keeping county football alive in some counties is the chance of winning an Ulster or a Connaught.counties in Leinster don't even have that small hope to cling on to.
   County football is in terminal decline not just because of the entertainment on offer,but also because many counties are playing without a full hand.some of the most talented players are opting out as there is no chance of winning anything.and for the commitment level required these days,you have to at least have a slim chance of winning.
   If Dublin were split in two,say north and south,both would automatically be in the top 3 or 4 favourites to win Sam.it would revitalise the championship I think.i can understand Dublin supporters being against it,but honestly if something isn't done soon the all ireland won't really be worth winning.the decline of county football isn't something that might happen,we are already far down the road i would suggest in at least 20 if not more counties.

That is a fair point, however outside of Ulster and until recently Connaught, its a dead duck.

When did football start to decline, 2011 was it?

Or only in the last 4 years or was it in 2002 !

[east down gael]

Not sure if football has declined so much as interest in it has. And it's not all down to Dublin's dominance. To play now requires a lifestyle change,and some are choosing not to go down that path. Even Dublin have had this happen with o'carroll.
   There's not much point in continuously saying Kildare/Meath/cork etc should get up to Dublin's level.the point is they can't,and won't in the future either. No one is at their level.the odd time a mayo or a Kerry or a Tyrone might challenge them,maybe even beat them.but it will be a blip.this will lead to even the stronger counties possibly going the way Meath,down,Derry etc have already went.

[mup]

Despite the fact that Kildare have won their first AI title since 1965 he reckons they 'haven't even stood still'.
There are none as blind as those who cannot see.

So in this period of Dublin domination (2011 to 2018), you are disputing that Kildare "haven't even stood still"?  Indeed "there are none as blind as those who cannot see".

In 2011, Dublin beat Kildare by 1 point in Leinster. (A single solitary point!). Kildare brushed aside Ulster runners up Derry in the qualifiers and played a great game against Donegal in the quarter-finals.  It was a very even game, could have gone either way, level after 70 mins, and took a once-in-a-lifetime score by a Donegal half back to win it with virtually the last kick of the game at the end of extra time.

In 2012, after losing to Meath in Leinster, Kildare re-grouped and won 3 games in the qualifiers (nice enough draws in fairness) to get back to the quarter-finals. To win the All Ireland, Kildare would have needed to beat Cork, Donegal and Mayo. Donegal, who were at pretty much the exact same level as Kildare just one year previously, beat both Cork and Mayo to win the All Ireland. Whereas Kildare got well beaten by Cork and the dream died. The regression had begun and not even a sign of those big bully Dubs.

The regression of course continued in the subsequent years. Losing to Westmeath, Meath and humiliated by Carlow in Leinster. Surrenderings against Dublin (16 pts, 19 pts and 9 pts), Kerry (27 pts) (jeez, good job you're not in Munster lads and have to play Kerry every year!) and Mayo (9 pts). White flag, take my short pants down and slap me on the arse, surrenderings. 

Finally we've seen some progression post the Carlow humiliation last year. Still not to the level of the 2011 team, but at least promise that things are going in the right direction.
In all those years, Kildare teams at underage have never feared the Dubs, and hopefully some of them will come through to get some backbone back into the white jersey. Because splitting Dublin will not improve Kildare! Kildare needs to improve Kildare.

So in one post you are hoping they will come through to put some backbone into the white jersey. Only a couple of posts earlier you call them 'lilyshitebags'.

It's posts like that never would endear me to the typical jump on the bandwagon type Dublin supporter that are all too prevalent nowadays. Because I know the more honest and genuine Dublin support would never make a comment like that.

No surprise you haven't mentioned the Mayo game last year. Although in fairness you Dubs too tend to forget certain times in GAA history. Just in case you are wondering the GAA had a history before 2011 when your bandwagon was being built.

Since you quoted me could you also point out where I said splitting Dublin would be a good idea? I don't expect ever to get an answer to that one.

[manfromdelmonte]

Where did this idea come from that Kildare is a serious football county?

All evidence points to the opposite