Football qualifier route 2019

Started by Blowitupref, May 22, 2019, 01:45:27 PM

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thejuice

It's an awful lot of football to play just to eliminate 4 teams. (Or it's actually a great way to squeeze more money out of us idiots who go to these games).
It won't be the next manager but the one after that Meath will become competitive again - MO'D 2016

APM

Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2019, 10:10:00 AM
The idea of the super 8s is to get the best 8 teams in there. The reality is, due to the lob sided nature of the provinces and randomness of the draws you have a scenario now where some very average teams like Meath and Clare coukd be in the Super 8s. It will have to be looked at again.

Example Cavan will have to beat Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone to get to it. Clare for example beat Waterford (by a point), Leitrim, Westmeath and Meath.

Spot on!! Posted this a few weeks back.  Pretty appropriate now given this draw! However, it seems a bit much to ask of the GAA for fair play these days given that they don't think the obscene funding of Dublin is an issue. 

Quote from: APM on June 04, 2019, 01:32:46 PM
The Championship has been like this since day dot.  Weaker teams have been dumped out routinely by stronger teams.  The quality and competitiveness should improve as the competition progresses.  Unseeded players don't win often in the first round of Wimbledon (some don't even win a game or a set) against the best players.  However, you do get the odd upset and that's what the underdogs live for. 

I would make several changes though to the existing system. Firstly, I would seed the teams based on league performance both in the provincial championship and the qualifiers.  We shouldn't really have a situation where weaker teams (like London in 2013) reach the provincial final due to being on the easy side of the draw, while Roscommon, Mayo and Galway knock eachother out. Same for the qualifiers; it is wrong to have two All-Ireland contenders knocked out in the first round and finding themselves pitted against each other in the first round of the qualifiers, while say Wicklow progresses because they beat London.

In Leinster for example, there shouldn't be an open draw (I know it's not open at the moment, but can see no sense in putting Meath in the preliminary round).  The four highest ranked teams in the league shouldn't enter the competition until the QF stage.  The other six teams can play-off for the right to get through - again the Leinster preliminary round should be seeded with the Top 4 ranked teams in the league playing the bottom four ranked teams (top playing bottom, second playing second last, third playing 3rd last). That would at least mean that the teams coming into to play in quarter finals would at least be there on some kind of merit. 

Secondly, I would change the qualifier system to ensure that the point at which you enter the qualifiers is based not on the stage you reach in your provincial championship, but based on the number of games you have won in your province.

Teams that lose their first game should go into the 1st round of the qualifiers.   
Teams that win one game and lose one game in their province, should go into the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
Teams that win two games and lose one game should go into the 3rd round of the qualifiers

This would mean that Cork, who are now in a Munster Final, by virtue of hammering Limerick, should join the second round of the qualifiers if they lose to Kerry. This would reward a team like Limerick who if they made a Munster Final this year would have done so by beating Tipp and Cork.



RedHand88

Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2019, 10:10:00 AM
The idea of the super 8s is to get the best 8 teams in there. The reality is, due to the lob sided nature of the provinces and randomness of the draws you have a scenario now where some very average teams like Meath and Clare coukd be in the Super 8s. It will have to be looked at again.

Example Cavan will have to beat Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone to get to it. Clare for example beat Waterford (by a point), Leitrim, Westmeath and Meath.

This year's FA cup semi final featured Wolves, Watford and Brighton!

There's nothing you can do to stop smaller teams in a cup stoke competition. It's just the luck of the draw, doesn't mean the system is flawed.

The only way to overcome it is to have a league, which would involve a huge amount of dead rubbers.

RedHand88

Quote from: thejuice on July 01, 2019, 10:21:33 AM
It's an awful lot of football to play just to eliminate 4 teams. (Or it's actually a great way to squeeze more money out of us idiots who go to these games).

Or it provides more entertainment and excitement for fans by having more games. I think it was a big success last year, given the draw. This year might not be as exciting.

Mayo4Sam

Apparently the Hyde isn't fit for this and we'll be sent to Limerick
Tht would probably suit us, bigger pitch
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

seafoid

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 01, 2019, 09:19:45 AM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 01, 2019, 09:15:31 AM
Quote from: Duine Eile on July 01, 2019, 08:57:42 AM
Well what a surprise, Galway Mayo. ::) Will the home away arrangement apply here I wonder?
Probably Hyde Park next Sat evening.  Hard to see us turning over Mayo this time unless there is a major improvement on that pathetic second half display in Salthill.

If there is anything to improve Galway it is the sight of Mayo jerseys!
Not the draw I would have preferred for Mayo, but it will be an interesting week. Both teams missing personnel and neither in great form.
We're due a win against Galway, but again we've been saying that for a while
Is Mayo's drop in form a U or an L ?
The sight of that green and red jersey will motivate Galway anyway .
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

recyclebin

Exciting for who? Kildare and Roscommon were hammered. Go back to straight knockout for quarter finals and scrap the super 8s. We don't have 8 super teams.

Rossfan

Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 01, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
The likely super 8 groups after that round 4 draw.

Donegal
Kerry
Mayo
Meath

Dublin
Tyrone
Roscommon
Cork

Likely All Ireland semi finals

Donegal v Tyrone
Mayo v Dublin
I recall a lot of chaps and pundits predicting a Galway v Mayowestros Conbacht Final ;D
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Laois Rising

The appeal of a Cup competition is the draws its throws up and opportunities it can some time afford teams to go on a run in provincial championship or qualifiers. I don't get people giving out about the unfairness of the qualifiers-counties who don't make the Super 8 have lost two championship games. They had their chance and didn't make it. Simple as. Good luck to counties like Clare and Laois if they do make a Super 8. They had the luck of the draw and took full advantage of it.

APM

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 01, 2019, 10:22:18 AM
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2019, 10:10:00 AM
The idea of the super 8s is to get the best 8 teams in there. The reality is, due to the lob sided nature of the provinces and randomness of the draws you have a scenario now where some very average teams like Meath and Clare coukd be in the Super 8s. It will have to be looked at again.

Example Cavan will have to beat Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone to get to it. Clare for example beat Waterford (by a point), Leitrim, Westmeath and Meath.

This year's FA cup semi final featured Wolves, Watford and Brighton!

There's nothing you can do to stop smaller teams in a cup stoke competition. It's just the luck of the draw, doesn't mean the system is flawed.

The only way to overcome it is to have a league, which would involve a huge amount of dead rubbers.

The FA Cup is a sideshow - not the primary competition.

The Championship is the primary competition in the GAA and it makes no sense to have teams fluking their way to quarter finals as a result of a handy draw. If Laois make the qualifiers, they will have beaten three teams that will be playing Division 3 football next year.   Mayo have two division 1 teams in a row plus a Division 3 team in the qualifiers.  Had Armagh been in the draw instead of Mayo, that would have been three Division 1 teams in a row in the qualifier draw.

Stronger teams are knocking each other out and as a result we have one Division 3 team (next year's league) who will make the Super 8s.  We will definitely have 1 Division 2 team in the Super 8s.  Let's see how they get on against Dublin. 

I'm not for one sided games and if they have to happen, let's have them in the early rounds of the championship and not in the shop window. 

Farrandeelin

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on July 01, 2019, 10:30:17 AM
Apparently the Hyde isn't fit for this and we'll be sent to Limerick
Tht would probably suit us, bigger pitch
Ridiculous if true.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

Redhand Santa

There was some good competitive and interesting super 8 games last year. Monaghan Kerry, Monaghan Galway, Galway Kildare, Tyrone Dublin, Tyrone Donegal were all good important games. In previous years you where lucky if you got 2 decent quarter final games and the other 2 hammerings. As a fan you want to see the top teams playing each other at this time of year.

I would be worried though that due to two poor draws in a row the super 8s wont fulfil their potential this year. Though there will still be 3 or 4 good and very important games. In the first week Roscommon at home to Tyrone/Cavan will be a huge game. That's another advantage of the super 8s giving Roscommon a home game as champions.

The other group will have Kerry at home to Galway/Mayo first up and again that'll be a really important match. That group is much closer to what you want and if Meath get there I'm not sure they'll lie down the way some on here think.

laoislad

Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2019, 10:10:00 AM
The idea of the super 8s is to get the best 8 teams in there. The reality is, due to the lob sided nature of the provinces and randomness of the draws you have a scenario now where some very average teams like Meath and Clare coukd be in the Super 8s. It will have to be looked at again.

Example Cavan will have to beat Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone to get to it. Clare for example beat Waterford (by a point), Leitrim, Westmeath and Meath.
No it isn't. No team has a divine right to be in the Super 8s.
What you are suggesting is doing away with qualifying games altogether and just picking the best 8 teams every year and putting them into 2 groups of 4 to play for the ALL Ireland. That's not how Cup competitions work.
Who ever makes this years Super 8s will be there on merit, some got the luck of the draw and some didn't. Tough.
When you think you're fucked you're only about 40% fucked.

recyclebin

Hard to know what level Meath, Claire, Laois and Cork are at. Meath barely beat Offaly, were close against Laois for about 45 mins before evetually winning easily then hammered by Dublin. Cork only really played Kerry.

Maroon Manc

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on July 01, 2019, 10:30:17 AM
Apparently the Hyde isn't fit for this and we'll be sent to Limerick
Tht would probably suit us, bigger pitch

You do realise the Gaelic Grounds has a smaller pitch than the Hyde?