Northern Ireland The Centenary of OWC

[Franko]

When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.

For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).

When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).

And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).

And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.

But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." 

For three candidates that attract so few votes, they speak on numerous media platforms, Nolan's TV and radio shows, Talkback etc. There's a big listenership of those shows, so you'd be forgiven for thinking that those bin lids were the three biggest representatives of PUL voters.

The bile they spew does filter down to the general PUL population, even to those who don't vote for them, particularly around bonfire/marching season.

So you have a choice.

One may take ones lead/draw ones information from people showing their true priorities in a forum which counts for something (i.e. elections), whether by voting in them or even by declining to do so.

Or one may do so by signing up to the media's need for (literally) unrepresentative, self-promoting gobshites to encourage other random gobshites to listen to their craphead's radio show, or click on their scuzzy website, or buy their lowlife rag etc.

And by your own admission you choose the latter.

There can only be two explanations for this.

The first is a basic lack of intelligence and discernment.

And the other is a compelling need to have your preconceptions and prejudices confirmed.

Whichever it is, I hope you're happy in your little world and the Exam Board was kind to you earlier today.   

These three commentators seem (seemed, in the case of our dearly departed friend Mr Frazer) to be able to whip the unionist community into a frenzy at any time necessary.  The looneys shouted and the unionists responded, oft times violently and in great numbers.

Given that, would you say that the unionist community display

(a) "a basic lack of intelligence and discernment"

or

(b) "a compelling need to have your preconceptions and prejudices confirmed"?

Answers on a postcard.

[johnnycool]

When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.

For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).

When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).

And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).

And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.

But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." 

Barring wee Wullie (who's departed us) the other two are regularly wheeled out on the "biggest show in the country" ( @Marty, not my country
    ) as the voice of unionism so it's no wonder usuns believe that's how themmuns think..

You are right in the point you make, but what is it with unionism that any form of moderate thinking is quickly shot down as sell outs or lundys?

[armaghniac]

You are right in the point you make, but what is it with unionism that any form of moderate thinking is quickly shot down as sell outs or lundys?

Classic groupthink. If the position you hold is not strong enough to withstand logical analysis then its only basis is sticking together and gatekeepers ensure that people do not step out of line.

[Evil Genius]

Don't patronise me.

Firstly, I was merely...      ... stating that things that those three say...       ... ultimately can decide voting patterns.

If they were capable of "deciding voting patterns" then how come they couldn't even get any votes for themselves?

And why won't any of the parties recruit them? (Jim "Mr. 2.5%" Allister had to form his own Party ffs!)

The point is that no Unionist Party which wants to be taken serously would touch people like that with a bargepole.

Yet you seem to take them seriously on the basis that they're never out of the media 

I guess you get your take on World Events from Kim Kardashian?

I was not implying that they influence my thinking. I know the game they play, and I don't participate in it.

Maybe it says something about you and your "preconceptions and prejudices" that you assumed I form my opinions from what loyalist figures have to say.

I wasn't saying that they influence your thinking.

I was suggesting that you have a pre-formed opinion of Unionists as basically being all bigots, gobshites and fruitcakes etc

And then having formed that opinion, you look around for "evidence" to prove it, in your case pointing to the likes of (literally) unrepresentative individuals like Frazer, Allister and Bryson.

At the risk of patronising you further, I would suggest you should look at the evidence first, then form your conclusion.

And stop listening to Nolan.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

You are right in the point you make, but what is it with unionism that any form of moderate thinking is quickly shot down as sell outs or lundys?

Well we have posters here telling us that you cannot be nationalist/republican if you use the term "Northern Ireland". 

This to an outsider looking in cuts out a fair swathe of middle ground.   It demonstrates a belligerent bind to the past as much as an extreme unionist like McAllister.    I write this because it implies:

1) The failures of the past mean that "Northern Ireland" cannot today or in the future exist in any acceptable way.   

2) The famous spirit of the GFA (evoke so often in Brexit discussions) surely is that Northern Ireland of today can work as all identities are accomondated.

3) 50% of those charged with no. 2 actually don't believe it can work.  They are sorely there waiting for the place to be dissolved.

I would the questions:

is it not possible to be uncomfortable with the formation of the state(let), the previous running of the state(let) but be satisfied enough with today's arrangement ?  Enough even to be able to utter the name of the place? Enough to accept that some will celebrate it and maybe turn some it to some kind of celebration of Northern Ireland as it is today?

<edit> otherwise for 50% of the current government their sole interest is waiting for the place to disappear?

/Jim.

[Applesisapples]

A few things. Firstly NI/Northern Ireland is not a country, it is currently administratively a region of the UK. It is also a fact that the majority in the region brought us to where we are now by not being magnanimous in their victory. Every opportunity was taken to wave a flag and keep the croppies on there knees. It is not so long a go that every Friday in July the lambs were beat outside the chapel in my parish. There was no recognition of the then 30%'s origin or right to live in the state. Unionism missed the boat of inclusivity at every turn. The fleg waving continues today and puts off most catholics and an increasing number of protestants. If unionism runs true to form then the celebration will be another layer of fleg waving rubbing nationalist nose in the dirt. It will be counter productive and I for one will as I have done every July for years ignore it and head to Donegal.

[BennyCake]

Don't patronise me.

Firstly, I was merely...      ... stating that things that those three say...       ... ultimately can decide voting patterns.

If they were capable of "deciding voting patterns" then how come they couldn't even get any votes for themselves?

And why won't any of the parties recruit them? (Jim "Mr. 2.5%" Allister had to form his own Party ffs!)

The point is that no Unionist Party which wants to be taken serously would touch people like that with a bargepole.

Yet you seem to take them seriously on the basis that they're never out of the media 

I guess you get your take on World Events from Kim Kardashian?

I was not implying that they influence my thinking. I know the game they play, and I don't participate in it.

Maybe it says something about you and your "preconceptions and prejudices" that you assumed I form my opinions from what loyalist figures have to say.

I wasn't saying that they influence your thinking.

I was suggesting that you have a pre-formed opinion of Unionists as basically being all bigots, gobshites and fruitcakes etc

And then having formed that opinion, you look around for "evidence" to prove it, in your case pointing to the likes of (literally) unrepresentative individuals like Frazer, Allister and Bryson.

At the risk of patronising you further, I would suggest you should look at the evidence first, then form your conclusion.

And stop listening to Nolan.

I refer to your original point about their low votes, and why they seem to get more media attention than they should.

And I don't take them seriously. But, low votes or not, they still have the capacity to stoke up tensions, and that can be dangerous. One arse hanging onto their every word is enough to get a house petrol bombed, an unlucky person to get beaten up, or worse. They also know that when it comes to bonfires, marching etc, they will get support from the PUL community. Even those who don't vote for them.

Where did I say all unionists were bigots, gobshites and fruitcakes? You seem to have formed your own opinion about me by things I haven't said.

Are there bigots within unionism? Yes. Are there bigots within republicanism? Yes.  If someone is behaving like a bigot or gobshites, I'll call them out. I have done with unionist parties/politicians, and I have likewise with Republican parties/politicians.

[Pub Bore]

Herself is the epitome of a middle class, middle of the road, very small 'n' nationalist.  SDLP voter all her life, calls this place NI, happy enough with the status quo (up until 23 June 2016, at least), clapped the NHS on Thursdays etc.  She burst out laughing in my face when I asked her would she be interested in any events to commemorate/celebrate 100 years of the existence of NI.  Her exact words were "What is there to celebrate?".  I suspect this will be the reaction of the vast majority of non-unionists.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

On the Jamie Bryson front didn't members of the DUP feel he was relevant enough to let him have a sneaky look at the Haas proposals before any agreement which amazingly enough they then started to back peddle on when  'grassroots' rejected it. The DUP were also happy enough to turn a blind eye to the daft poster campaign in North Down and North Belfast which of course spectacularly backfired.

[Rossfan]

Unionists dont really need to vote for Loons like JB or Allister.
The DUPUDA supply plenty of 17th Century half baked eejits for them.

[Eamonnca1]

Will Evil G be celebrating the 101st anniversary of the establishment* of whatever you want to call the place?

* Established in the British Government of Ireland Act 1920.

Define "celebrating".

If you mean marching somewhere, buying a big f**k-off flag, or dressing up in some sort of fancy costume etc, then no I won't. Just like eg the Jubilee, Twelfth or VE Day etc.

But if you mean taking some quiet satisfaction at being a citizen of a country which is older than the great majority of other countries, then yes, since it is important to me. And who knows, I might even stretch to sharing a bottle of something white, wet and fizzy with my dinner, rather than something white, wet and still, as is my wont.

Now my nation's international football team, that's very different, a cause for celebration or commiseration every single time!

[Hurler on the Bitch]

Well, lads! It's almost here - what are ye all doing for the big 100? With the Covid situation, my celebrations will have to be a bit more inventive and symbolic, so here's the list. Firstly, the dog - who I can hardly tolerate - will be banished from the house to the back yard so as I can look down on him throughout the year (with the hope that he takes the hint and emigrates to the next street). Secondly, I will ignore all neighbours from 25 June to 14 July inclusive. Thirdly, I will wallow with absolute pride when we are referred to as a Devolved "Nation". Fourthly, I will rename Derryvolgie Avenue off the Lisburn/Malone Road as Londonderryvolgie Avenue - indeed, any reference will be expunged - Edenderry will become EdenLondonderry etc. Also, I will lobby that any name that derives from Irish is changed to Ulster-Scots - Shankill to become "Shuckditch Road" and Belfast will become "Ringy thing goes quickly". Lastly, I will campaign for a statue of Jamie Bryson to be erected at Larne to welcome visitors to our wee semi-province as a sign of the evolving NI.

[Rossfan]

No stone at Stormont

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html

[Milltown Row2]

No stone at Stormont

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html

The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...

With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments

[johnnycool]

No stone at Stormont

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html

The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...

With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments

Not one brass farthing of public money should be spent on these "celebrations".

As we've been told bi-lingual signage, the ILA and the likes are a waste of public money which instead should be spent on health and education.

What's good for the goose...