Messages

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/briefing-by-srsg-svc-ms-pramila-patten-to-the-security-council-findings-of-visit-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-11-march-2024/

It really doesn't make good reading lads.

There wasn't armed resistance by Palestinians over the last 75 years? Really?

I've edited the post to be clearer.

There was armed resistance for most of the 75 years would be closer to the mark. As is their right as a country under occupation.

There wasn't armed resistance by Palestinians over the last 75 years? Really?

Let's all live in a world where we don't consider any possibility of intelligence agencies infiltrating opposition groups. 

Who are you addressing that to?

MR
Read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm

Dyou know that Netenyahu funded Hamas so as to divide Palestinian allegiance in Gaza and the west bank? The PA were moving towards peace at that time and Israel didn't want it. They've never wanted a "partner for peace"

Can we not all agree that Zionism is the  problem. Heartless and evil cnuts

Israel funding Hamas is well known and if anything it proves MRs point. Hamas violence suits Israel's agenda.

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

International law justifies it, I support that armed resistence is allowed. resistence against occupation is heroic. palestinans are a heroic people who for 75 has resisted their occupier armed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

you made this comment -

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide

, should I read into that that every single Israeli is a criminal and committing genocide... if I did it would be bad faith as more than likely you mean those who actively or passively support there actions, not all Israelis or all actions... bad faith

Israel - the state of Israel as represented by their government

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

International law justifies it, I support that armed resistence is allowed. resistence against occupation is heroic. palestinans are a heroic people who for 75 has resisted their occupier armed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

you made this comment -

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide

, should I read into that that every single Israeli is a criminal and committing genocide... if I did it would be bad faith as more than likely you mean those who actively or passively support there actions, not all Israelis or all actions... bad faith

Yet more waffle as you try..and fail, to twist and turn your way back out of what you said. Heroic actions, on Oct 7th.

so I made the comment, know what I meant by the comments, explained in more detail at the time what I meant, have explained on at least one other occasion what I meant, explained again today what I meant but you think you know better... catch yourself on (think that was directed at whitey early but fitting here too.)

It's clear as day. You made the comment of 'heroic action' on the day of the massacre and attempted to justify it later.

I'm sure you must have felt heroic yourself being Uber pro-Palestinian when all the quislings and closet Zionists were asking questions about the morality of murdering unarmed men women and children.

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

International law justifies it, I support that armed resistence is allowed. resistence against occupation is heroic. palestinans are a heroic people who for 75 has resisted their occupier armed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

you made this comment -

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide

, should I read into that that every single Israeli is a criminal and committing genocide... if I did it would be bad faith as more than likely you mean those who actively or passively support there actions, not all Israelis or all actions... bad faith

Yet more waffle as you try..and fail, to twist and turn your way back out of what you said. Heroic actions, on Oct 7th.

I've always felt that armed resistence was heroic and unfortunately necessary and why it is enshrined in int law..... bad faith

You called the Hamas attack of Oct 7th a heroic action and attempted to justify it when pressed.....extremely bad faith.

Can you say the IRA during the war of independence were heroic while not supporting the murder of innocent Protestants? Is it not fairly similar?

If you came out on the day the IRA gunned down hundreds of unarmed men, women and children civilian Protestants and called their actions 'heroic' then people might have a question or two for you.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

the Warsaw ghetto uprising was considered the greatest act of resistence against the Nazis.

I am not comparing wars/conflicts as to do so creates ambiguity and there are no perfect direct comparisons.

but acts of resistence (generally speaking) against occupation have and are been considered heroic and great etc.  Only bad faith zionists or those who who rather only support Palestinians while they remain caged and occupied would take that as some sort of blind support for inidividiual acts within that resistence that led to the murdering of non combatants (which includes children women, men, elderly etc.)

You described Hamas actions, that is, gunning down unarmed men, women and children on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. All the waffle above doesn't change that.

Now you're attempting to pigeonhole me as either a bad faith Zionist or someone who only supports Palestinians if they remain caged for calling you out on it. I'm neither.

Lots of bad faith in this debate and none of it coming from me that's for sure.

There were posters here also posting on Oct 7th who were clearly pro-Palestine and were questioning Hamas' actions. You chose the words 'heroic actions.'

yes bad faith, as I have explained to you what I meant (the person who wrote the comments) and if you read on you will see I clarified it at that time for others also.

I described the act of resistence by Palestinians as heroic, so if I want to think I support murdering children go right ahead it is in perfect keeping with your bad faith.

The actions of Hamas on that day. That is, a massacre of unarmed civilian men, women and children. You chose the word 'heroic' to describe it. You can't change that.

Yeah I took up your invitation to read on, you were called out by plenty of posters. What followed was basically an attempt to justify murder.

In my opinion, you're not that much different from the British  zionists I hear on radio shows trying to justify genocide. If it's your team doing the murdering, there's always an excuse.

Plenty of pro-Palestinians on this board were disgusted by Hamas actions and said so straight away.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

the Warsaw ghetto uprising was considered the greatest act of resistence against the Nazis.

I am not comparing wars/conflicts as to do so creates ambiguity and there are no perfect direct comparisons.

but acts of resistence (generally speaking) against occupation have and are been considered heroic and great etc.  Only bad faith zionists or those who who rather only support Palestinians while they remain caged and occupied would take that as some sort of blind support for inidividiual acts within that resistence that led to the murdering of non combatants (which includes children women, men, elderly etc.)

You described Hamas actions, that is, gunning down unarmed men, women and children on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. All the waffle above doesn't change that.

Now you're attempting to pigeonhole me as either a bad faith Zionist or someone who only supports Palestinians if they remain caged for calling you out on it. I'm neither.

Lots of bad faith in this debate and none of it coming from me that's for sure.

There were posters here also posting on Oct 7th who were clearly pro-Palestine and were questioning Hamas' actions. You chose the words 'heroic actions.'

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

as I said bad faith...  all my posts are there so read on.

I support peace, there has been none for palestinans since the nakba. I support the right to resist an occupation through all means in line with International law. Peaceful efforts have failed due to Israel and the west. Hamas (the military side) are a resistence group and I support them in line with International law, I don't support any war crimes or act outside of that.

Yes that's all very nice but you described their actions on Oct 7th as 'heroic'. Nice bit of attempted backtracking.

Despite posting that yourself you can't see any blind support for Hamas and accused me of 'bad faith' for even suggesting it.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

From your good self - page 4.

'Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israel's actions and their pathetic response to yesterdays HEROIC ACTIONS by Palestinians'.

Oh dear.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."

Page 2 - 'A desperate people resorting to desperate measures'.

That's directly excusing murder of innocent non combatant civilians.

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

This is from page 1 Oct 7th - do I need to go through the whole thread? No bad faith here but your eyes are wide shut.

"
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them."