Paddy Jackson apology

Started by yellowcard, April 06, 2018, 02:32:16 PM

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gallsman

Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 07:39:57 PM
Is it the case that if the accused had applied for legal aid then they would have nothing to pay towards their legal costs in the event of a not proven verdict?

Legal aid is means tested, so not necessarily.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2018, 08:03:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
The lads are making good money I'd say now, but the ones that aren't with professional teams will be well out of pocket
PJ is playing with Perpignan who are on a long losing run

So he's not being paid?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Milltown Row2

Quote from: hardstation on December 16, 2018, 08:15:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2018, 08:03:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
The lads are making good money I'd say now, but the ones that aren't with professional teams will be well out of pocket
PJ is playing with Perpignan who are on a long losing run

So he's not being paid?
He calls it expenses as well.

Wish I got his expenses
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

David McKeown

Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 07:39:57 PM
Is it the case that if the accused had applied for legal aid then they would have nothing to pay towards their legal costs in the event of a not proven verdict?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Criminal Legal aid has two components.  A means test and a merits test. The means test has no absolute rules as to limits and well generally depend on the charge (and to some extent the judge). The merits test is then based on the Widgery criteria. Interestingly unlike civil legal aid, there is no contribution with criminal legal aid. If you receive it then Legal Aid covers all legal fees and plenty of experts fees without you paying anything. If you don't get then you have to pay for everything.

Also there's no test if you are charged with Murder you are automatically entitled to legal aid.

There's no such thing as not proven in Northern Ireland.
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Main Street

Quote from: David McKeown on December 16, 2018, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 07:39:57 PM
Is it the case that if the accused had applied for legal aid then they would have nothing to pay towards their legal costs in the event of a not proven verdict?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Criminal Legal aid has two components.  A means test and a merits test. The means test has no absolute rules as to limits and well generally depend on the charge (and to some extent the judge). The merits test is then based on the Widgery criteria. Interestingly unlike civil legal aid, there is no contribution with criminal legal aid. If you receive it then Legal Aid covers all legal fees and plenty of experts fees without you paying anything. If you don't get then you have to pay for everything.

Also there's no test if you are charged with Murder you are automatically entitled to legal aid.

There's no such thing as not proven in Northern Ireland.
Unless the prosecution case falls apart totally, it's unlikely that a middle incomed citizen (over the means threshold) would get legal expenses paid for, even in the event of a not guilty verdict? That if the crown believe they have enough to prosecute, there is a minimum penalty, an imposed punishment in the form of a financial penalty that the accused has to  endure unless they prove the prosecution's case to be very weak.
There appears to be an implied % of guilt once the crown decides to prosecute.

seafoid

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2018, 08:03:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
The lads are making good money I'd say now, but the ones that aren't with professional teams will be well out of pocket
PJ is playing with Perpignan who are on a long losing run

So he's not being paid?

Nah. They are not as good as any of the Irish provinces. All the power in France now is with the big city teams. PJ was expelled from the garden of Eden and isn't operating at the same level.

I would say that the IRFU would be happy to have him back after a suitable time has elapsed but that it might have to be under a different name because Mná ná hÉireann haven't forgiven and haven't forgotten and would love an ould Twitter mob .
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

David McKeown

Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 11:11:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 16, 2018, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 07:39:57 PM
Is it the case that if the accused had applied for legal aid then they would have nothing to pay towards their legal costs in the event of a not proven verdict?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Criminal Legal aid has two components.  A means test and a merits test. The means test has no absolute rules as to limits and well generally depend on the charge (and to some extent the judge). The merits test is then based on the Widgery criteria. Interestingly unlike civil legal aid, there is no contribution with criminal legal aid. If you receive it then Legal Aid covers all legal fees and plenty of experts fees without you paying anything. If you don't get then you have to pay for everything.

Also there's no test if you are charged with Murder you are automatically entitled to legal aid.

There's no such thing as not proven in Northern Ireland.
Unless the prosecution case falls apart totally, it's unlikely that a middle incomed citizen (over the means threshold) would get legal expenses paid for, even in the event of a not guilty verdict? That if the crown believe they have enough to prosecute, there is a minimum penalty, an imposed punishment in the form of a financial penalty that the accused has to  endure unless they prove the prosecution's case to be very weak.
There appears to be an implied % of guilt once the crown decides to prosecute.

To an extent that's true. I think there's a balancing exercise to be had between protecting against that and ensuring the PPS aren't put off the idea of prosecuting by costs implications. I'd love to see the statistics for private paying cases in NI and how many of them result in acquittal before making a decision how well that balance is struck. They certainly wouldn't be unheard of but legally aided cases are the overwhelming majority of cases in NI.
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Main Street

Quote from: David McKeown on December 17, 2018, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 11:11:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 16, 2018, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2018, 07:39:57 PM
Is it the case that if the accused had applied for legal aid then they would have nothing to pay towards their legal costs in the event of a not proven verdict?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Criminal Legal aid has two components.  A means test and a merits test. The means test has no absolute rules as to limits and well generally depend on the charge (and to some extent the judge). The merits test is then based on the Widgery criteria. Interestingly unlike civil legal aid, there is no contribution with criminal legal aid. If you receive it then Legal Aid covers all legal fees and plenty of experts fees without you paying anything. If you don't get then you have to pay for everything.

Also there's no test if you are charged with Murder you are automatically entitled to legal aid.

There's no such thing as not proven in Northern Ireland.
Unless the prosecution case falls apart totally, it's unlikely that a middle incomed citizen (over the means threshold) would get legal expenses paid for, even in the event of a not guilty verdict? That if the crown believe they have enough to prosecute, there is a minimum penalty, an imposed punishment in the form of a financial penalty that the accused has to  endure unless they prove the prosecution's case to be very weak.
There appears to be an implied % of guilt once the crown decides to prosecute.

To an extent that's true. I think there's a balancing exercise to be had between protecting against that and ensuring the PPS aren't put off the idea of prosecuting by costs implications. I'd love to see the statistics for private paying cases in NI and how many of them result in acquittal before making a decision how well that balance is struck. They certainly wouldn't be unheard of but legally aided cases are the overwhelming majority of cases in NI.
Thanks for the explanations.

seafoid

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/se%C3%A1n-o-brien-s-big-money-move-to-london-irish-confirmed-1.3789952

O'Brien will link up with a couple of familiar faces at London Irish in former Ireland coach and now director of rugby with the Exiles Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss while Paddy Jackson is also expected to move from Perpignan in the summer.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:59:37 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/se%C3%A1n-o-brien-s-big-money-move-to-london-irish-confirmed-1.3789952

O'Brien will link up with a couple of familiar faces at London Irish in former Ireland coach and now director of rugby with the Exiles Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss while Paddy Jackson is also expected to move from Perpignan in the summer.

Getting closer to a return to Ulster.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2019, 09:21:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:59:37 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/se%C3%A1n-o-brien-s-big-money-move-to-london-irish-confirmed-1.3789952

O'Brien will link up with a couple of familiar faces at London Irish in former Ireland coach and now director of rugby with the Exiles Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss while Paddy Jackson is also expected to move from Perpignan in the summer.

Getting closer to a return to Ulster.

The new head guy at Ulster has said that it won't be happening
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Tony Baloney

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2019, 12:51:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2019, 09:21:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2019, 08:59:37 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/se%C3%A1n-o-brien-s-big-money-move-to-london-irish-confirmed-1.3789952

O'Brien will link up with a couple of familiar faces at London Irish in former Ireland coach and now director of rugby with the Exiles Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss while Paddy Jackson is also expected to move from Perpignan in the summer.

Getting closer to a return to Ulster.

The new head guy at Ulster has said that it won't be happening
Won't happen. There would be more demos around Ravenhill etc.

I thought his move to London Irish was close to a done deal. Is it not happening?

GetOverTheBar

If he's still in form, if there is a need for him, if enough time passes (not this year certainly) he'll be back.

Will take enough things to align but being slightly involved in this through an indirect link the door is not closed. Alot of the 'major' players would take him and Olding back (you only have to look at who likes the social media posts).

That said, Connacht is much, much more likely (Jackson, Olding is more than happy away).

screenexile

I think London Irish would be a good move for him! If he plays well enough there then maybe the door would be ajar for a return to Ireland but it's 2/3 seasons away.

magpie seanie

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2019, 01:30:47 PM
If he's still in form, if there is a need for him, if enough time passes (not this year certainly) he'll be back.

Will take enough things to align but being slightly involved in this through an indirect link the door is not closed. Alot of the 'major' players would take him and Olding back (you only have to look at who likes the social media posts).

That said, Connacht is much, much more likely (Jackson, Olding is more than happy away).

Not a hope I'd imagine.