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A lot of talk about Armagh not having the best players in the county on the pitch.  Would anyone care to name an alternative Armagh 15 that either didn't start on Saturday or are not on the panel.
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Just from players who have actually played senior inter county for Armagh

Morrison
Morgan  Lappin Murray
Hughes McKenna Heffron
Oneill Lavery
O'Hanlon White Rafferty
Clarke Campbell Forker

That is only players I can remember of the top of my head. I would say only Lavery Caolan Rafferty Clarke and Stefan Forker are unlikely be asked / available next year.
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When you look at that list of players and add in long term injured players like Kevin Dyas and players not on the panel for whatever reason like Eugene McVerry and Stephen Harrold, there is a massive drop off in talent in many positions. Of that 15 named above I think you could easily pick eight of them that could have started in Sunday's game and made us better in theory. After last year's relatively successful Championship campaign, I think most of us were excited going into this season, but then we had a number of key players drop off the panel for whatever reason and all of a sudden we are looking at the same situation we've found ourselves in for the last few years. McGeeney has been trying to build a strong panel but it's nay on impossible to do when each year you get some players back and then lose other key ones. However, the players that played in the league did very well and we fans thought that the loses could be managed to some extent.

On Sunday I think we saw a mix of things that keep hurting us and over the last number of years. The drop off in players quality really hit us and it's only really in the Championship that you notice it compared to the League, where teams are trying things out and getting fit. We glided through the league and a number of players did very well, but were poor beyond belief on Sunday.

The team looked like they'd been over coached, with players playing out of position and things just being over complicated by McGeeney. The opposition had better tactics than we did and were able to follow their game plan. There have to be major question marks over him at this stage. The turnover in players doesn't help him, as I don't think that at any point he's had his best squad of players to chose from - but that can be said for a lot of counties so that can't be an excuse, especially against Fermanagh and their player resources. This is the fourth year in a row where we've been so bad in the opening round and lost, that it's difficult to make excuses for him anymore. I don't a lot of the players played anywhere near to their ability against Fermanagh and this is another theme that keeps popping up. The basics of the football are forgotten in big games in Ulster.

I do believe that some progress has been made and that some good players have been discovered that wouldn't have gotten near the team had everyone been fit and available. The qualifiers will be seriously tough and should we draw someone like Mayo or Tyrone our season could be over like that and I don't know where we go from there.

Stuck his forearm into a Fermanagh man's face. Had to walk.

Congratulations to Fermanagh, they were the better side and thoroughly deserved their victory. They were the team that really learned the most from the two league encounters and in Rory Gallagher they have a manager who can get them going and get the most out of them. Well done.

As for Armagh, where do even begin with this car crash? It was like watching the Down performance from last year all over again. We came into this game off a good league campaign and despite having some injuries, all seemed set up for a strong performance and a really good chance of winning. But yet again, we just did not show up in the Ulster Championship and couldn't unlock a packed defence. We hit wide after wide, committed more fouls than I could count and turned the ball over constantly. When we watch Tyrone or Monaghan play them in a few weeks I'm certain we'll see them tear them apart (like they would have done to us if we'd won). They have the tactical nous and players to be able combat it. We don't. We had a great run through the Qualifiers last season, which made up for the dire performance against Down. But it certainly hasn't repaired it.

Last season we had our strongest panel in years available to us, which allowed us to get a good run in the Championship. This year we didn't, but league form suggested that we had unearthed some players who mightn't replace those not there, but would certainly bring some quality to the team. Tonight showed the vast difference between League and Championship. In the league, when teams are experimenting with players and systems and results don't ultimately matter to some teams, we looked great. Like last year against Down and years before, when we come up against defensive teams in the heat of Championship, we just don't have it. Would having Stefan Campbell, Oisin O'Neill, James Morgan and Jamie Clarke available in this game made a difference tonight? Probably, but not necessarily enough to help us win. I'm not mentioning those players to make excuses, but more to highlight the fact that we knew these players who could make a difference wouldn't be available and still couldn't work out a way from preseason to now and in training camps in Portugal to counteract and unlock what we knew would be a defensive Fermanagh set up. Absolutely shocking.

Who does Conor Macken play for? Can't say I've heard of him before and can't recall seeing his name on a match day panel.

I was trying to think what likely starters were missing? Paul Hughes & Mark Shields, anyone else??

Those would be the most likely and McParland in my opinion. At the moment I'd say that our Championship team would look something like:

Blaine Hughes

Patrick Burn, Aaron McKay, Paul Hughes

Mark Shields, Brendan Donaghy, Gregory McCabe

Stephen Sheridan, Charlie Vernon

Ben Crealey, Aidan Forker, Nially Grimley

Ethan Rafferty, Andrew Murnin, Rory Grugan

Ryan McShane won't have done his chances any harm either and having Kevin Dyas back could be a great option off the bench, as we are lacking creativity. We don't have many scoring forwards after the departure of Stefan Campbell and Jamie Clarke at the start of the season and this is one area of concern for me. Elsewhere, I think we look strong in a number of positions and have good options. The league has allowed a number of young players to come into the team, get some good game time and perform well. Championship is a whole other level, but we're still developing a squad, which is needed with so many high profile departures, it's difficult to get any continuity in our team. Great to win Division Three. Playing higher calibre teams next season will be great for this group of players.

Armagh players not playing today:

Morgan McKay Hughes
Shields Higgins McElroy
O'Neill
Campbell Rafferty ohanlon
Clarke O'Neill

Others - heffron / caolan Rafferty

A good achievement for the current squad to gain promotion with a game to spare.

Add in Stephen Harrold, Eugene McVerry, Kevin Dyas and Michael Murray as long term absentees, but players who would make us better and you have some team there! It's actually quite frustrating, when you think of what's missing and the players who've done so well and we've unearthed, we'd have some squad of players to pick from!

Not convinced the Grimley incident is as clear cut as you suggest. The referee had given him a free and Quigley continued to pull and drag him. Grimley threw the arm back to break free. Don't think it was a straight red but probably should have been a second yellow. But was in last seconds of game. On a similar note if Grugan had have fallen as theatrically as Quigley when the Fermanagh man 'pushed him with his head there could have been another red.
Speaking of Quigley he was hardly recognisable he has lost so much weight.

This has been a good league for Armagh. Given the quality of players who left the panel at the start of the year I thought we would do well to stay in the division. Add the incredible injury list going in to the game today I could not see us getting anything from the match. In the end we probably should have won. Hopefully fitness and quality of play will improve as the ground hardens.

I see your point. But whether or not he was being dragged it's a dangerous thing to do IMO. If he'd have connected it would have been red. As for Grugan's penalty incident, I thought it was one. The defender clearly pulled him back. I was thinking the same about Quigley, then I saw the one I thought it was, Sean, sitting in front of me and going to warm up and then checked the programme again and saw that it was Seamus, his brother who was playing!

It's been a good league. As you point out, we've faired better than expected. Losing O'Hanlon, Clarke, Campbell, O'Neill and Morgan at the start of the season was very hard to take. But players like Rafferty and Grugan have really driven this team on. Add in the list of injuries to key players who would definitely start like McKay, McParland, Donaghy and Hughes to name some, we've had to play players who in all likely hood wouldn't have gotten a game and most of them have performed very well. To compete and do well in the Championship and Division Two, we'll need a lot of these guys fit and available.

That was a terrible game of football today between Fermanagh and Armagh, in bitterly cold windy conditions, on a heavy pitch, that contributed to the poor show. While I'm delighted that Armagh have achieved promotion, I wasn't pleased with how they played. Fermanagh bought a great amount of intensity to the game in the first half and really suffocated Armagh. Their tackling and turnovers were excellent. They got some good scores from play and Armagh indiscipline handed them a number of simple frees. The youth, inexperience and lack of quality the deeper we've had to go into our panel showed in the first half.

Second half we played a lot better, won a lot of ball in the middle, tightened up defensively and looked more threatening going forward. But like the first half our shot execution and free taking was abysmal. Fermanagh didn't seem to be able to bring the same level of intensity to the game in the second half. I didn't see what the first red card was for, but the ref was right in front of it over on the other side of the field. The second player could have no complaints about his second yellow either. I didn't see what Forker did, only the aftermath. He does have form and for years has been doing stupid macho things, which gets him and the team in trouble. His discipline has really improved this season but I wouldn't be surprised if he did something he shouldn't have. One player for me who definitely should have walked was Niall Grimley. He swung at elbow at Seamus Quigley and while it didn't connect and Quigley faked injury, the intent was there and should have been a red.

Today's performance will stand to some of the younger, less experienced members of the team, while others didn't really take their chance, in what were in fairness tough conditions. Playing Fermanagh in the League final as another warm up to the Championship clash could see the animosity that clearly exists between the teams go up another level.

Armagh 15 for Sunday, looks like Ethan Rafferty fit?

1   Blaine Hughes   Carraig an Chrupáin
2   Patrick Burns   Foirceall
3   Oisin Lappin   An Machaire
4   Jamie Cosgrove   Cill Shleibhe
5   Niall Rowland   Baile Mhic Cholla
6   Gregory McCabe   Seán Ó Néill
7   Ryan Kennedy   Baile Mhic an Aba
8   Stephen Sheridan   Foirceal
9   Charlie Vernon   Cláirsigh Ard Mhacha
10   Ben Crealey   An Machaire
11   Aidan Forker   An Machaire
12   Niall Grimley   Na Madáin
13   Rory Grugan ( C )   Baile Mhic an Aba
14   Andrew Murnin   Naomh Pól
15   Ethan Rafferty   An Ghráinseach

Our entire defence is so young and inexperienced that this could be a problem on Sunday. Fermanagh are seasoned, well drilled and dogged. Their experience and power up front could cause our young defence some real problems. I think McCabe is the only one who started in the Championship last season. I'd be shocked if Rafferty played. His injury last week sounded quite serious and less it wasn't as bad as first feared and actually isn't that bad, then they shouldn't risk him. I see Fermanagh winning this one.

On a side note, does any Armagh fan know what the deal with Kevin Dyas is? Has he packed in the football? After all the rehab work he was doing last season, he was always with the team at games as part of the squad, he hasn't been at the games this season.

Dublin's performance yesterday was frightening and showed how far this young, talented but experienced Kerry side have to go before being able to beat them. For the first 15 or 20 minutes, Kerry did very well and looked lively up front. Against Dublin, you have to take your chances. You can't afford not to. They are too good. Those two goal chances would really have made a difference, but they weren't taken and Dublin put Kerry to the sword there after. The pace and athleticism of the Dublin team is unreal, added into the fact that they are all great ball players. It will take some performance to beat them.

That was a great win for Armagh on Saturday night against a game Derry side. At this stage of the league, it's just about winning games and securing promotion. The depth of our panel is really being tested and guys who were on the periphery on the team are having to step up, which they did the other night. It's great to see McGeeney putting his faith in young players and them responding. It's taken a couple of years and a lot of frustration, but I think we are starting to see the results of McGeeney's persistence. Losing Ethan Rafferty is a real worry. He's got the main bulk of our scores to date, with Grugan and Murnin supporting him. Having lost Stefan Campbell and Jamie Clarke at the start of the season, we were always going to be light on scoring forwards and Rafferty had really stepped up to the plate to replace them. Without him in the team, other players will need to step forward and fill the void. It's vital that he's back for Championship.

Next weekend's game against Fermanagh could be a real gutting match. Win that and I think we will have secured promotion. With Fermanagh losing this weekend and with Armagh travelling to Enniskillen for their Championship encounter, they will want to lay down a marker. They are a good side and matches between the two sides over the last few years have been heated enough and I imagine the next one will be no different.

[The extra week off following the bad weather may well see some of the key Slaughneil players coming back in for Derry, which should make a difference to them]

Armagh v Derry could be a really good game. The extra week off following the bad weather may well see some of the key Slaughneil players coming back in for Derry, which should make a difference to them. From what I've heard, Derry haven't been great so far and have a big rebuild job on their hands. Armagh should look forward to a stern test against a fellow Ulster team. We've done well so far and the last win against Longford was a huge one. We played terribly and won a game we didn't deserve to. I expect another tough encounter here. Derry always play well against us, no matter what their form is. I'd expect the same on Saturday night. If we can get back to playing to how we were before Longford, then I think we should have too much for them. Another win should really tighten our grip on promotion.

Not according to our manager. Armagh should beat us handily enough at the minute.

I thought that if the game had gone ahead last weekend they wouldn't have played. Not that I wanting them to play this weekend!

Armagh v Derry could be a really good game. The extra week off following the bad weather may well see some of the key Slaughneil players coming back in for Derry, which should make a difference to them. From what I've heard, Derry haven't been great so far and have a big rebuild job on their hands. Armagh should look forward to a stern test against a fellow Ulster team. We've done well so far and the last win against Longford was a huge one. We played terribly and won a game we didn't deserve to. I expect another tough encounter here. Derry always play well against us, no matter what their form is. I'd expect the same on Saturday night. If we can get back to playing to how we were before Longford, then I think we should have too much for them. Another win should really tighten our grip on promotion.

Armagh were awful today and somehow won a game we scarcely deserved to get a point from. I thought that Longford were the better team for the most part and will be massively disappointed not to have gotten at least a draw. Had they not had a man sent off, I think they would have won. Despite having two impressive wins so far, Armagh are still Division 3 team which means they can't be relied on to be consistent. Our play today was ridden with errors, inaccuracy and bad decision making. Some of the wides we hit from frees were absolutely awful and could have cost us. Ethan Rafferty was our stand out player today and there wasn't really anyone else who made much of an impression. I thought that today we really missed our best forwards that aren't available. We needed to have that bit of skill and craft to open them up and we didn't have it. Ethan Rafferty is a monster and can barge his way over a lot of players, but that isn't a tactic that will work against the best teams, which is one worry I have for later in the year. But we won, remain unbeaten, are still top and look like we're going to get promoted, so that's a positive. That type of performance may also be useful as reminder to the team that they can't take anything for granted and we have to perform in each game. It doesn't just happen, you have to work hard for it. Hopefully we will see a better performance against Offaly.

After last weeks impressive performance against a inexperienced Sligo side I think a lot of Armagh fans were unsure whether we could repeat this performance against a good Westmeath side who had a great win against Derry. To win like this again is very pleasing and shows that we are indeed in with a good chance of promotion. We should be in Division 2 now but for throwing away wins to last second goals against Sligo and Tipp last season. The team look like they have a ruthless streak in them to ensure this doesn't happen again. It's been well publicised that we are missing a couple of key men and my worry was that we wouldn't be able to compensate for them. So far I'm being proven wrong.