Did Brady covered up child abuse?

[pintsofguinness]

Have'nt even bothered to read the last lock of pages, all I know are good Priests.

another one that's out of touch with reality.  What does it matter who's been to mass? When people are protecting paedos and allowing them to rape children it's everyone's business.


One in five women and one in six men abused as children - and it has to be higher than that because not everyone will tell - that's shocking.  I wonder how that compares to other countries.

[Main Street]

The people in Armagh had a chance to send a message today. Of course the sheep flock couldn't take their heads out of their arses long enough to make a stand. Standing at the pulpit of an empty cathedral would have made Brady's mind up about what the right and proper decision was.

In fairness to brady, and applying your logic, maybe they did send their message by showing him support?

There are people will keep going to church even if that lunatic Monsignor Dooley was saying mass and was their bishop. God help their wit. I was impressed with Brady today however... at last he showed some humility and said he was 'ashamed.' Hopefully the court case he is involved in won't be an out of court settlement and the full truth will come out. A lot of priests must be sh*tting themselves at the minute as we probably ain't heard the half of it yet.

Why would you be impressed. Yesterday he was totally innocent, not going to resign and all the w**kers like Dooley where wheeled out to defend him. But the shit storm kept coming so today a different approach. Express a bit of shame, consider your position and maybe people will send a little pity his way and we'll all say "sure the poor cardinal made a mistake". Bullshit! He is spinning the story to get himself out of a hole. He had 30 years to think about what he did and he made his decision to put his beloved corrupt church in front of little childrens welfare. Now he is leading f**king St Patricks day parades, he should be hanging his head low in a dark room somehere. I have nothing but disrespect for the man.

We don't know if Dooley is connected to Brady.
Brady spoke well to a point and nearly pulled it off.
The point was when he came to end, he added this line
"For the sake of survivors, for the sake of all the Catholic faithful as well as the religious and priests of this country, we have to stop the drip, drip, drip of revelations of failure."

Not in my opinion Cardinal. There are sound reasons why information is only coming in drips.
The main responsibility for that belongs to the Church and the other one is that even decades later, many of the abused have great difficulties with even acknowledging their own abuse suffered.
The rights of the abused vastly supercede the right of the Church to stop new information coming to the light.

[orangeman]

Here we go again :But I was expecting this boyo, given his record :




Bishop 'helped cover up abuse' 

Dr Seamus Hegarty's name was included in court papers
The Bishop of Derry has been accused of being involved in a compensation deal to cover up alleged child sex abuse.

Dr Seamus Hegarty was one of three priests named in a civil settlement after an eight-year-old girl was abused over a 10-year period from 1979.


The Belfast Telegraph reported £12,000 was paid to the alleged victim, subject to a confidentiality agreement.

She told the paper the "settlement meant nothing" to her and a note of apology "wasn't sincere".

The civil action was settled out of court in December 2000 and was signed by lawyers on behalf of Dr Hegarty, Bishop Edward Daly and the alleged abuser without admission of liability.

Bishop Daly was named in the court papers, but at the time his duties were being carried out by another bishop due to illness.

There was a handwritten letter asking for "some forgiveness" from the alleged abuser in which he offered the family his "deepest apology for any pain I caused you through inappropriate gesture or mistaken signs of affection".

The Derry diocese told the paper it would not comment immediately because church records would need to be checked.

The girl's father said that they had not gone to the police because "it was not the culture" in Derry at the time to do so.

Ian Elliott, who is chief executive of the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church in Ireland, said that he did not know the details of the specific case but that out of court settlements were "not acceptable".

"If any situation comes to light involving a child then the policy of the church, and the absolute commitment that is given, is that that information will be conveyed to the appropriate state authorities, the PSNI and the social services," he said.

In 2005 Bishop Hegarty disclosed details of the extent of child sex abuse allegations against priests in his diocese, revealing that 26 had been accused in 40 years.

[pintsofguinness]

The girl's father said that they had not gone to the police because "it was not the culture" in Derry at the time to do so.

That's not good enough.

[johnneycool]

So telll me this everyone now who is jumping ship and abandoning the Church.
Where you Church go-ers who actually gave a shit before all this or did you rarely darken the door anyways?

If you were Church go-ers and will no longer go how will you now teach your children in the faith, how will you instruct them in matters of religion, how will you introduce them to Jesus?  Will they receive sacraments?

Answers on a post card......

You probably place a great emphasis on the sacraments and going to church and thats fine, I don't and hence my children (IMO) won't suffer for the lack of them, however I will emphasise to them the difference between right and wrong and hopefully be strong enough individuals to make their own minds up on any moral issues they encounter in life.

They will be going to a maintained school as its a good school but I will make it abundantly clear to the principal and teachers that at no time will my children be left unaccompanied with a priest who may not have the welfare of my child as their main objective.

If that's what you think I really recommend you read this:

The scale of sexual abuse and rape in Irish society is shocking, as revealed in a report by the organisation that undertook the survey of clerical abuse for the Irish Catholic Bishops.

Only a tiny fraction of abusers are members of the clergy and only a miniscule proportion of these sexual crimes are reported to the gardai or, indeed, to anyone else. It is an epidemic of enormous proportions, one largely ignored or diminished by the state, politicians and commentators.

The startling facts of abuse are:

* One in five women (20.4 per cent) reported experiencing contact sexual abuse in childhood and a further one in ten reporting non-contact sexual abuse. (That is 30 per cent of all women being sexually abused as children.)

*  More than one in 20 women (5.6 per cent), over 110,000 in all,were raped as children.

*  One in five women reported experiencing contact sexual assault as adults with 6.1 per cent of women experiencing unwanted penetrative sex (ie rape). That is over 76,000 women raped during their adulthood.

*  One in six men (16.2 per cent) reported experiencing sexual abuse in childhood, with a further one in 14 reporting non-contact abuse.

*  2.7 per cent of all men were subjected to penetrative sex (anal or oral sex) in childhood. That is around 12,000 men raped as children.

*  One in ten men (9.7 per cent) experienced contact sexual assault as adults and 0.9 per cent of men were subjected to unwanted penetrative sex as adults.

*  Most of the perpetrators of child sexual abuse were men (89 per cent) acting alone.

*  In the case of those who abused girls, a quarter were family members, half were nonfa m ily but known to the abused girl and a quarter were strangers.

*  In the case of the abuse of boys, only one in seven (14 per cent) was a family member, two-thirds were non-family but known to the abused boy and only one in five were strangers.

*  Only a small fraction of child sex abusers (3.7 per cent) were members of the clergy and a smaller fraction (2.5 per cent) were fathers.

*  In the case of sexual violence against adult women, one-quarter of the perpetrators were partners or ex-partners.

These startling revelations are in a report, Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland (SAVI), undertaken by the Health Services Research Centre at the Department of Psychology, Royal College of Surgeons, the body that conducted the recently published report on clerical abuse.

The report was commissioned by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre. Over 3,000 people, randomly selected, were interviewed anonymously by telephone.

This information was published a year ago, but caused little fuss. Remarkably, only 47 per cent of those who disclosed information to the interviewers for this survey said they had reported the abuse to anybody else. The remainder had never previously disclosed it.

A tiny fraction (1 per cent) of men who had been abused as an adult, and only 7.8 per cent of women had reported their experiences to the gardai. In the case of child sex abuse, only about 10 per cent of victims reported their abuse to the gardai.

The phenomenon of sexual crime is by far the most startling of all criminality in the state andyetalmostno attention is focused on it, apart from clerical sex abuse, which is a minor, almost incidental, part of the problem, although, obviously neither minor nor incidental for the victims of clerical abuse.

For those of us who have ranted for ages about clerical abuse, perhaps a more balanced assessment of the phenomenon is overdue.


http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/12/07/story315403517.asp

I'm not arguing with that, the point I am trying to make is that the Cathoilic church would knowingly send an offending priest to our parish in an attempt to hide their deeds they've committed in other parishes. It's not solely about the individual priest because there are good and decent ones, its about the organisation I now do not trust to have the best interests of my child as its main aim.
If I thought for one moment the GAA or whatever organisation i chose to send my child to had unwritten procedures for hiding paedophiles and ensuring that they were not prosecuted then I'd hold the same requirements.

You might use the arguement that all this happened 20 odd years ago, but until a sitting Bishop lifts the phone and without prior approval from on high, rings the guards or PSNI to inform them that they've just been informed of an accusation of inappropriate behaviour by one of his clery and could they investigate with the full support of the church then and only then will I cut the organisation some slack no matter what Fr John McManus, a man I know well enough says on TV.

[longrunsthefox]

The girl's father said that they had not gone to the police because "it was not the culture" in Derry at the time to do so.

That's not good enough.

Incredible to think they would probably have gone to the police if their house had been burglared in order to be able to claim the insurance. But protecting children doesn't seem to be as important as money.

[pintsofguinness]

The girl's father said that they had not gone to the police because "it was not the culture" in Derry at the time to do so.

That's not good enough.

Incredible to think they would probably have gone to the police if their house had been burglared in order to be able to claim the insurance. But protecting children doesn't seem to be as important as money.

Or protecting the church, even when their own child is involved.

[Hardy]

... until a sitting Bishop lifts the phone and without prior approval from on high, rings the guards or PSNI to inform them that they've just been informed of an accusation of inappropriate behaviour by one of his clery and could they investigate with the full support of the church then and only then will I cut the organisation some slack ...

I have no doubt that any and all of them would do that today, because they have rules in place (that they were dragged, kicking and screaming into adopting) and none of them would dare chance a cover-up now.

The real question is when will any or all of them visit their local garda/PSNI stations with the full list of cases, documented and undocumented, for as far back as they exist, that they know of, participated in, facilitated, recorded or even heard rumours of. If Brady wants to stop the "drip-drip", that's how to do it and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in assuming that's what he meant in his statement.

Of course, given what Murphy revealed, we have no guarantee that the guards would do anything, though we can probably assume that my first sentence above applies to them too. But I, for one, am a little perplexed at how little comment this aspect of the scandal has received and how we seem to have been distracted by the concentration on the church cover-up from pursuing the state for its criminal abdication of its duty to its citizens.

[turk]

There's two ways to stop a tap from dripping - one is to open it and let it run until the tank is empty. The other is to close the tap tighter until it is shut off and the drip stops.

Which one does the church want in this case? I remain to be convinced.

[Main Street]

 

If Brady wants to stop the "drip-drip", that's how to do it and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in assuming that's what he meant in his statement.

That assumption for your benefit of doubt is not supported by the history, right up to the time of that homily. The benefit of doubt has to be earned before being given a value.
Imo the drip drip that he talks about is more about his annoyance at the ordeal, how the allegation from these lowly subjects are still coming out of the sewer, affecting the high and mighty leaders like himself, that they cant keep the lid on and move away.
His last words were  "pray for me". In context I find that incredibly egotistic.

[ludermor]

There's two ways to stop a tap from dripping - one is to open it and let it run until the tank is empty. The other is to close the tap tighter until it is shut off and the drip stops.

Which one does the church want in this case? I remain to be convinced.

Not much point fixing the tap if the water is contaminated

[mylestheslasher]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revealed-the-oath-brady-smyth-and-the-children-swore-2102869.html

What sort of bastard would ask a child to sign something like this?


Revealed: the oath Brady, Smyth and the children sworeThursday March 18 2010

"I will never directly or indirectly, by means of a nod, or of a word, by writing, or in any other way, and under whatever type of pretext, even for the most urgent and most serious cause (even) for the purpose of a greater good, commit anything against this fidelity to the secret, unless a...dispensation has been expressly given to me by the Supreme Pontiff."

THIS is the oath of secrecy the child victims of paedophile priest Brendan Smyth were told to sign during their meetings with Cardinal Sean Brady 35 years ago.

Crimen Solicitationis, the Latin for 'Crime of Solicitation', is a secret 1962 Vatican document which only came to light in recent years. It instructed bishops how to handle allegations of sex abuse against priests in their diocese and set out an oath of secrecy.

All those involved in the 1975 investigation into Smyth, Cardinal Brady -- then a 36-year-old priest -- the children who had been abused and Smyth himself, were required to sign the oath. To break the vow would lead to excommunication from the Catholic Church. The document was written by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, then prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, previously known as the Inquisition.

It was only to be circulated among bishops and it demanded that all parties to an investigation keep a "perpetual silence".

Scripted in dense legal language, the document sets out the steps to be taken for investigating crimes of solicitation against priests.

Once the tribunal has reached its conclusion, it lays out a number of different courses. If there is no foundation to the allegations, all documents relating to the accusation must be destroyed.

If it is not possible to determine if a crime has occurred, the documents should be stored in the diocesan archives to be re-opened if another allegation is made in the future.

Morals

Should the tribunal find there are "indications of a crime serious enough but not yet sufficient to institute an accusatorial process", a check should be kept on the "morals" of the priest.

In the event where it is certain the priest has offended, he is tried under canon law.

Since its unearthing in 2003, opinion has been split on whether the document provides the "smoking gun" to prove there was a conspiracy by the Vatican to cover-up the problem of paedophile priests.

The Irish Bishops' Conference last week said the document had been consistently misrepresented in the media and that it was never the intention of the oath to prevent victims from reporting crimes to the civil authorities.

One canon lawyer has said an oath of secrecy is not unusual in church investigations and is not specific to sex abuse cases. And although those taking part in the investigation are required to remain silent while it is being carried out, they can report the abuse to police before this.

However Paddy Doyle, author of 'The God Squad' and a survivor of institutional abuse, last night described the oath of secrecy as "chilling".

"It's tough enough to read it as an adult because of the language that is used, never mind putting that to a terrified child. How are they supposed to understand that?

"My first reaction is absolute disgust, it has to be some sort of criminal offence. In effect, what you are doing is... the bishops and priests are dragging children into becoming criminals by making them collude," he told the Irish Independent.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

GDA, should you not be over in the 'Drunk Again' thread

Sad, usual shite from anyone who disagree's, thought more of you.

You will, when you sober up.

One rider though,
if you had no alcohol consumed when you joined the thread, then I can understand your ill humour.

No work early today, I'm not the Donegal county squad contrary to some "experts" on this board!

[johnneycool]

If Brady wants to stop the "drip-drip", that's how to do it and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in assuming that's what he meant in his statement.

That assumption for your benefit of doubt is not supported by the history, right up to the time of that homily. The benefit of doubt has to be earned before being given a value.
Imo the drip drip that he talks about is more about his annoyance at the ordeal, how the allegation from these lowly subjects are still coming out of the sewer, affecting the high and mighty leaders like himself, that they cant keep the lid on and move away.
His last words were  "pray for me". In context I find that incredibly egotistic.

I think he does need our prayers to help him find the moral fibre to do the right thing for the children who have been abused in the past and may be abused today and in the future.

I certianly hope and pray that he lifts the lid on this sordid mess.

[Main Street]

When I heard him speak his homily on the radio and tv, I certainly got the audible and visible  impressions of a man who had the opinion that the lid be shut to stop the drip drip effect.