Michael Lyster sorts out the championship

[slow corner back]

From RTE.ie

"There is a trend emerging this summer in Gaelic Games which the GAA are going to have to make some big calls on in the very near future.

And no, I'm not talking about discipline, suspensions, appeals or anything of that nature. I'm talking about the growing lack of appetite amongst players for back door systems, second chance saloons and consolation competitions for small fry prizes.

Send us your comments here.

It is clear that there are so many demands and pressures on amateur players these days that there is an understandable dip in enthusiasm once the prospect of a big prize has gone. 

Make no mistake about it, provincial titles are still big prizes, not just because they put silverware on the sideboard and medals in the pocket but also, obviously, because it means that you're winning and still on Route One for the big one, the All-Ireland title itself.

Once you've suffered a defeat in the province you've already dramatically cut any prospect of being rewarded for your trojan efforts and most are left with a summer facing ultimate failure no matter how heroic the effort.

Limerick hurlers will tell you exactly how that scenario pans out. Last year they were involved in some of the most exciting matches of the summer. We admired them and at times we secretly urged them on.

But when the dust had settled Kilkenny had taken the All-Ireland title, Waterford had won out in both Munster and the National League and Limerick ended up with the same amount silverware as Leitrim - none.

I imagine it will require a massive commitment from the Limerick players again this summer to push themselves through the next few weeks fully aware that, once again, there just might not be anything to show for it.

I can see this realisation growing on a lot of players this year and it's telling that we see a number of managers either appealing to teams to make a bit of an effort or, worse,  stepping down because they simply have not been able to persuade players to turn up for training.

Local media and phone-in shows that allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to come on and lambaste you in the harshest terms have also added to a feeling amongst many players and managers that they really don't need all the hassle.

The thing about the old knockout system was; okay, your season could be over in May and there was a clear desire to give players more matches. But those matches and competitions have to be meaningful.

Not much point in breaking your backside all the way into August only to have confirmed something that was perhaps obvious three months earlier, and that is that you weren't good enough to win the All-Ireland in the first case.

At least under the old system, once you were beaten you could plan your holidays or take a summer job abroad.

Hardly any wonder then that this year we have seen a growing number of players announcing that they're off once the first setback to the Championship dream has occurred.

So, these are the problems but what is the solution? There are changes this year to the Hurling Championship structure and there will be changes in football for next year's Championship.

The GAA continue to try and find a better balance, but in my view we're still a good bit off the mark.

Here's something which myself and Marty Morrissey have come up with during one of those rare idle moments we have in RTÉ!

In hurling, you take a designated 12 top counties and you divide them into four groups of three. Allocate two groups to Munster and two to Leinster with Galway going into one province (possibly Munster) and Antrim into the other.

Play off a round robin system leaving you with a bottom team in each group who are then eliminated.

This leaves you with eight teams, four in each province who would then play straight knock-out semi-finals and finals to decide the two provincial winners.

Let's just take one province, say Munster, to show you what I mean. 

We have an open draw for the two groups (we conducted one here in the office and this is how it worked out):

Group One: Tipp, Cork and Waterford. Group Two: Clare, Limerick and Galway. 

After the round robin let's just say that order was the finishing order - in other words Waterford and Galway finishing bottom. It would then be Tipp versus Cork in one semi-final and Clare versus Limerick in the other. 

In the All-Ireland semi-finals, the provincial winners would play the losing finalists in the other.

To be honest, I would actually favour a complete open draw from the 12 teams to make it a much more balanced and interesting Championship. An open draw system would also give you straight quarter-finals and semi-finals.

However, we all know that such a system would be an impossible sell to the GAA at the moment because it eliminates the provincial Championships. Therefore, the first proposal is the one to go for if you want to retain Munster and Leinster.

I have a similar idea for the football and I'll pan out a mock Championship draw here on the site next week for that.

In the meantime, any takers for the hurling idea? We'd love to know what you think. "

Given some of the poor hurling on show this year so far and some that is still to come it is pretty clear that something needs a shake up. I do not like all the tinkering with the championship but at least this proposal gives each county the same chance unlike the current system. I also believe promtion and relegation from the christy ring should be reintroduced, either based on league or championship performance.

[orangeman]

Lyster is right - there is a shake up needed - maybe we should go to a league basis for the championship with the best 8 teams in it ?

[G@@]

Jaysus lads, why scrap the provincial champos? I have said it may times on here that these competitions should be ran as a seperate entity to the All Ireland.

June Bank Holiday weekend should be the final days.

Start the All Ireland series as an open draw/champions league style from the last week of June with "PERHAPS" a bonus point for the provincial champions in the All Ireland series.

EXAMPLE FOR 2009:

MAY 3RD:
LEINSTER SHC - Laois 1-16 V 1-14 Westmeath
MUNSTER SHC - Cork 1-15 V 2-11 Limerick
ULSTER SHC - Armagh 2-13 V 1-11 Donegal

MAY 10TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Dublin 2-18 V 3-14 Offaly
MUNSTER SHC - Clare 1-17 V 1-19 Tipperary
ULSTER SHC - Derry 1-15 V 2-18 Down
CONNAGHT SHC - Mayo 1-12 V 1-16 Roscommon

MAY 17TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Laois 1-15 V 1-14 Wexford
MUNSTER SHC - Waterford 2-19 V 3-15 Cork
ULSTER SHC - Armagh 1-11 V 2-13 Antrim

MAY 24TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Dublin 2-13 V 0-20 Kilkenny

MAY 31ST BANK HOLIDAY SUNDAY FINALS AT THURLES:
CONNAGHT SHC FINAL: Galway 2-17 V 1-13 Roscommon
MUNSTER SHC FINAL: Tipperary 2-19 V 3-19 Waterford

JUNE 1ST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY FINALS AT TULLAMORE:
ULSTER SHC FINAL: Antrim 0-18 V 1-13 Down
LEINSTER SHC FINAL: Killenny 0-21 V 2-12 Laois


ALL IRELAND OPEN DRAW 2009:

GROUP 1
Galway
Cork
Tipperary
Offaly

GROUP 2
Waterford
Kilkenny
Wexford
Dublin

GROUP 3
Antrim
Laois
Clare
Limerick

Top team in each group qualifies for All Ireland Semi Final. A play off between the best two second placed teams to determine last semi-final place.
No more than two provincial champions allowed in a group IF bonus point is given to provincial champions.
Each team plays each team once with the home/away agreements in place continuing.


What would your thoughts be on this lads???

[Rossfan]

I've heard worse.
Anyway the Munster Championship ( the greatest competition in the world one would be led to believe !!!) has 4 games in it so could easily be played in May as could the other Provincial competitions.
I would suggest 3 week gaps between the All Ireland Group games to allow for club championships to progress and to allow County players some time with their clubs. Say 15 June/6 July/27 July.Qtr Final 10 Aug, both Semis weekend 23/24 Aug -1 Saturday,1 Sunday - and the Final 14 Sept.
The NHL would have to go back to 6 team groups and only a Final to save some weekends.

[blasmere]

Jaysus lads, why scrap the provincial champos? I have said it may times on here that these competitions should be ran as a seperate entity to the All Ireland.

June Bank Holiday weekend should be the final days.

Start the All Ireland series as an open draw/champions league style from the last week of June with "PERHAPS" a bonus point for the provincial champions in the All Ireland series.

EXAMPLE FOR 2009:

MAY 3RD:
LEINSTER SHC - Laois 1-16 V 1-14 Westmeath
MUNSTER SHC - Cork 1-15 V 2-11 Limerick
ULSTER SHC - Armagh 2-13 V 1-11 Donegal

MAY 10TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Dublin 2-18 V 3-14 Offaly
MUNSTER SHC - Clare 1-17 V 1-19 Tipperary
ULSTER SHC - Derry 1-15 V 2-18 Down
CONNAGHT SHC - Mayo 1-12 V 1-16 Roscommon

MAY 17TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Laois 1-15 V 1-14 Wexford  Wexford by at least 8
MUNSTER SHC - Waterford 2-19 V 3-15 Cork
ULSTER SHC - Armagh 1-11 V 2-13 Antrim  Antrim by at least 25

MAY 24TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Dublin 2-13 V 0-20 Kilkenny Kilkenny by at least 15

MAY 31ST BANK HOLIDAY SUNDAY FINALS AT THURLES:
CONNAGHT SHC FINAL: Galway 2-17 V 1-13 Roscommon  Galway by at least 50
MUNSTER SHC FINAL: Tipperary 2-19 V 3-19 Waterford

JUNE 1ST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY FINALS AT TULLAMORE:
ULSTER SHC FINAL: Antrim 0-18 V 1-13 Down
LEINSTER SHC FINAL: Killenny 0-21 V 2-12 Laois Kilkenny by at least 30


ALL IRELAND OPEN DRAW 2009:

GROUP 1
Galway
Cork
Tipperary
Offaly

GROUP 2
Waterford
Kilkenny
Wexford
Dublin

GROUP 3
Antrim
Laois
Clare
Limerick

Top team in each group qualifies for All Ireland Semi Final. A play off between the best two second placed teams to determine last semi-final place.
No more than two provincial champions allowed in a group IF bonus point is given to provincial champions.
Each team plays each team once with the home/away agreements in place continuing.


What would your thoughts be on this lads???

Good job it's just an example 

Anyway, on a more serious note, the Munster Council won't allow this to happen, they won't forsake their sacred cow.

[Gnevin]

If your getting rid of the Provincial championships then we continue to group the teams by province?