Can anybody shed some more light on this fella?
I remember him jabbing Paul Ormonde in the head with a hurley years ago.
Then he spent most of the next few years getting kicked off the Antrim panel.
On his day he is good as forward from the big counties, but he seems to have issues.
What are the odds on him putting the head down and doing it consistantly for Antrim?
All I know is he was sublime on Saturday. I was priveleged to witness some of the things he did. Delighted for Loughgiel and Antrim too. Every bit as good "hurling people" as Cyril would put it up there as anywhere in the country.
He's a fantastic hurler, he really is up there with the best and would walk on to any team in the country. He got an All Star nomination a few years ago and I think he nearly would have got one had he not lost his temper a little bit.
He cleaned Cadogan out the other year too. Great hurler when he puts the mind to it. He's only doing there what he has done before in Antrim. Of the whole year I think Graffin from Cushendall did a far better marking job on him than anyone.
Hard to know what impact winning the AI on it and whether he will do it for Antrim. I'd be hopeful he will this year. Him, Shane McNaughton and Eddie McCloskey would make a few good scoring forwards on the team and with Neil McManus, Aaron Graffin and Neil McAuley in there we have a few who would get on a lot of county teams in Ireland. We just need another few too...
This article here might give a good insight.
Forever perched on thin line that divides calm and storm
Liam Watson's talent for trouble is almost as prodigious as his talent for hurling, writes Dermot Crowe
Sunday January 09 2011
In last year's All-Ireland hurling quarter-final between Antrim and Cork, Liam Watson produced the glowing performance that would win him an All-Star nomination and showcase his talents as a hurler of the first rank.
After 50 minutes he had nailed six points from play, not a prosaic score among them, but there was still time for a depressingly sour finale. Lucky not to be red-carded as early as the second minute, another flashpoint five minutes from the end of normal time resulted in him being ordered off the field.
His offence was there for everyone to see and judge. He became entangled with John Gardiner, yanked off the Corkman's helmet and then, when the heat seemed to have subsided, kicked the headgear away in a theatrical fit of pique. The referee had only one option; as an act of folly it was hard to surpass. Earlier, Watson had struck Eoin Cadogan off the ball and been blessed to escape with a yellow card. Despite that reprieve, and the scatter of points that followed, he still could not contain his temper over an hour later.
There have been numerous incidents like this one. In the 2008 Ulster semi-final against Derry, he was warned to keep his composure if they, as Antrim expected, tested his patience. He was sent off within ten minutes, leaving his team with 14 men for most of the match and having to dig themselves out of a hole.
His first Croke Park visit in 2002, while still a teenager, earned him a yellow card for striking Tipperary's Paul Ormonde. Television replays showed the offence in unsympathetic light and yellow was later upgraded to red. There have been various conflicts with management and in 2007 and 2009 he played no hurling for his county, having fallen foul of the management team of Sambo McNaughton and Dominic McKinley.
But he feels he has matured, at 28, and last year, in spite of his troubles, brought him a cherished and hard-earned county medal and national recognition through an All Star nomination. Next month his club, Loughgiel Shamrocks, will face the Leinster champions in the All-Ireland semi-finals. Their long-awaited county win ended a barren stretch that included a scarcely comprehensible six squandered finals in a row. Watson also began his first season in the IFA Premiership with Donegal Celtic, after spending the previous two seasons trying to win promotion. He was voted the supporters' best player and considered among the top three performers in the division.
Joe McGurk, part of the GAA family from Lavey, is on the Loughgiel management team and is cited as being one of the positive influences on Watson's efforts to reform. This is the player's own testimony. McGurk gave him Liam Dunne's autobiography which he has read and that has given him a sense of purpose and a feeling that he is not alone in his predicament. Dunne, too, had a career which mixed sublime hurling with controversy, and ultimately he came through and achieved a sense of peace and triumph.
Jim Nelson, the former Antrim manager and a Loughgiel coach, has also been a calming presence. Watson promised Nelson he would not be sent off in 2010 for Loughgiel. He proved true to his word. There were games, as he says himself, when he was "battered from the first minute to the last minute" but, "I never even said 'boo' to them". That was the difference."
But it is a constant battle. Before Christmas he returned from injury to face Coleraine and was sent off after just 15 seconds.
Dinny Cahill was the first manager to introduce Watson to the Antrim team and he managed to resurrect his career when he returned for the 2010 season. But even Cahill has been frustrated. He imposed a drinking ban leading up to the Leinster Championship match against Offaly which Watson breached by going to a close friend's stag in Liverpool. Then there was a fight in training with one of the Antrim players. He was dropped from the panel, restored, then dropped from the team. Not all of Cahill's management team were happy to see him come on at half-time in the Offaly game, but Cahill believed he needed him and made the call.
Cahill, he knew, would be pleading to him to return to inter-county hurling once he went back to managing Antrim. "I thought, 'Oh my God, I am going to get a call some night and it's going to be an hour long'. It came one Monday night. Och, he just wouldn't take no for an answer. I just told him maybe I didn't have the commitment he wanted, with the football and that. He said he would work round it."
He returned and hurled in the early rounds of the league, then got a straight red card against Laois and was suspended again. The season didn't pass without incident, but he believes he gave the county a lot, culminating in the six-point performance against Cork. For a while he had to balance two careers, with the Irish League running from August to May. During the hurling league in the spring, a balance needed to be struck but Cahill made the necessary accommodation.
"I left Donegal Celtic one Saturday evening (after a game), drove to Kilkenny and went to bed and played Kilkenny the next day and went back up. I was training four or five nights a week and playing two matches at the weekend and it got to the stage where I was not performing. I went to Dinny and said 'Dinny, I am trying to keep everyone happy and I am not performing'."
But even Cahill's patience was tested. He does a shaky impression of a Dinny Cahill accent, enunciating his reaction when told of the impending stag do: "Stag do's is out, weddings is out, funerals is out; everything is out." Watson told some of the players he was going regardless of Cahill's reservations. "It was my mate's stag who I have hung about with for 20 odd years, it was the least I could do."
Cahill phoned Watson while he was in Liverpool and he confessed. They agreed to talk on Monday when he returned. The next day he was texted news of a story in the newspapers saying he had been dropped from the panel. Cahill later overruled that decision and then had to face the training ground bust-up. Watson explains it as follows: "He [another player] hit me a dirty slap at training and he didn't think it was but I did and I turned around and hit him. Dinny talked to me and I told him, 'look, what I done in training I would do it again. It was a dirty slap for a training session'. He's a good fella (the player I hit) and I speak away to him now but I don't regret it, no. I said it to him, if that happened, I would do it again."
He has some regrets. On the Ormonde incident, he is asked if he deserved three months and is unequivocal that he did. "I hold my hand up," he says now, "it shouldn't have happened." But he is less contrite about other flashpoints. The Gardiner incident is one. He is asked why did he do it. "He (Gardiner) got me raised. See, when the ref was getting a hold of me, Gardiner was still poking two or three of our players and that is what annoyed me.
"I have no qualms. I don't like Gardiner and I never will. I don't regret kicking Gardiner's helmet. I would rather kick him up the ass to be honest, I don't like him. He is one I would never shake hands with."
The tussle with Cadogan is also recounted. "We were told what way they were going to come on to us. Before we started, we never shook hands . . . He (Cadogan) said I was in for a hard time. First ball I went for, he fouled me and I fell. I just got up and said 'you don't know who you are dealing with, you'll get it'. So then it went on and on."
You could have been sent off. "No, because it was early on."
So you took a calculated risk? "Aye," he says emphatically. "To put manners into him. Instead of him treating us like shit and I was going out to treat him like shit. End of the day I think it worked, I ended up playing well. To be honest, when I go playing hurling I can't go out and go through the motions, I need to be right up there. If somebody hits me, it's the best thing you can do to get me going."
On Friday, Watson went to a doctor in Ballymena who diagnosed a medial ligament tear in his knee. That would rule him out of Donegal Celtic's Irish League match with Coleraine, a repeat of the tie in November which, in his comeback game after another medial knee ligament tear, Watson received his marching orders. He enjoys playing football, is very happy with Donegal Celtic, and says he would love a crack at playing for Linfield or one of the bigger clubs if the opportunity arose.
But hurling is his game and he makes no bones about it, at one stage only half-jokingly deriding football as a "poof's game". He enjoys the physical nature of hurling and he has taken his fair share of knocks over the years, including a broken jaw in a county semi-final against Dunloy that had him eating through a straw for six weeks. Yet two weeks after getting his jaw wired up he turned out for Loughgiel in the county championship final.
His last medial ligament tear required keyhole surgery and if this requires the same treatment then he will postpone corrective treatment until after next month's All-Ireland club hurling semi-final. When he suffered a similar tear on the other knee last year, he "played through it". He featured in the county final win, the club's first since 1989, and hurled through the Ulster championship that followed by taking a series of painkilling injections.
On Thursday night, he went up to the local GAA grounds to watch the hurlers go through their paces. The bitter cold didn't deter them; they looked determined and eager, but injury to Watson is an untimely blow and his team-mate Eddie McCloskey has suffered a bad hamstring injury. Watson's six-year-old son Eoin is already a hurling fanatic and taking a keen interest in his father's career. His father recalls him watching the Cork game, praising the points his Daddy scored, then "tut-tutting" when he got the line.
Liam Watson knows that now, at 28, he should be a leader, carrying lads and showing example. In 2008, he was dropped from the Antrim squad the night before they faced Galway in the All-Ireland qualifiers at Casement Park. The offence was to play a soccer match two nights before in Limavady, part of an annual tournament, of no great consequence except that he did it every year. The same night he was due in Casement Park for training and a press night with the county hurlers. He never informed the management team he would be away and the next day he received a call saying he was being dropped.
He resented not being told face to face, instead hearing the news on his mobile while out shopping. But there are holes in his reasoning, given that he failed to communicate his absence the night before, and ran the obvious risk of injury by playing a relatively meaningless soccer match a couple of days before one of their big matches of the year. Any inter-county management team would have reacted in the same manner.
"I knew if I mentioned soccer there would be uproar, thought it was better saying nothing. Maybe I should have said I am going here. I made a lot of mistakes, you know, I am not saying I am perfect. Aye, I could have handled it better. I could have gone to them and said I am going here to play football and I will contact you right after the match to say everything is alright. Like, it was a mistake of mine. I will hold my hands up when I was wrong and maybe that was one of the times. I should have knocked the tournament on the head."
But did it hurt him enough to miss the Galway game? "You always look forward to playing the big teams," he says, "and put yourself up against the best, but once I got the phone call, I would rather they had met me face to face, I wasn't best pleased with that there. After the phone call, I didn't give a shit to be honest, it was one of those feelings where I said 'f**k it'. I thought at that time it was me and Antrim finished."
His relationship with McNaughton and McKinley, which had already been tested, never recovered. Antrim, after a plucky first half hour, were annihilated by Galway in Belfast. He wouldn't make himself available for the final qualifier match in Walsh Park against Waterford and the county was walloped again. He didn't hurl the following year for Antrim and he hadn't hurled in 2007 either.
McNaughton and McKinley had been in charge of the county minors and were building a new senior side from those reserves. They were anxious that the right example would be set by the more senior players and Watson's reputation contravened those ideals. They wanted him to hurl but he was hard work and more often than not they regarded him as too much of a liability.
He admits there were times when he went missing, even for Loughgiel, where a night out morphed into two and maybe three and the next training session was missed without prior warning. This would lead to words and that would only make him worse. One year he missed a first round championship game for Loughgiel when he went on a lost weekend after a motorbike race. He had to return with the tail between his legs and apologise to his team-mates gathered around him on the field.
If some don't believe he will ever fully reform, it is understandable. But he feels he is making ground. The quality of his hurling has never been in dispute. He jokes that if he were his own manager he would lock himself up and only release himself for training and matches. "Since I have come on the hurling scene, I know I have made a lot of mistakes but in the last two years I have grown up a lot, made a lot of changes. But I've still a lot to change. Long way to go. Last year was very good for me and that was part of my changing."
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/forever-perched-on-thin-line-that-divides-calm-and-storm-2489434.html
He has since said that biggest turn around in his attitude on the field came after a match where he got sent off against St. John's (Belfast). A match his 7 year old son attended. When he came in his front door at home his son hit him in the ribs with a hurl and said "you shouldn't have done that Daddy". It dawned on him that his son now could understand what went on, on the field. That incident at home, the management and team mates, and playing without injury for the first time in over a year have culminated not only in that performance last Saturday but the one in Parnell against Na Piarsaigh as well. A brilliant hurler and actually a good lad.
God knows what Liam is capable of for Loughgiel and Antrim. He's in his prime and is as fit anyone playing the game at the minute. All I know, as a Loughgiel man and supporter, I'd want him playing on my team rather and against me.
Article in the Sunday Time a couple of weeks ago about him also.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 21, 2012, 08:23:46 AM
Article in the Sunday Time a couple of weeks ago about him also.
Posted here by Minder
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=1347.15285 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=1347.15285)
Compared himself to Henry and DJ on Newsline the other night so not lacking in self confidence either ;)
QuoteCompared himself to Henry and DJ on Newsline the other night so not lacking in self confidence either
In all fairness he was completely airlocked!
Never seen it but you'd think someone from lg with a titter of wit would keep cameras away from anyone in that state
Quote from: No1 on March 21, 2012, 09:36:43 AM
QuoteCompared himself to Henry and DJ on Newsline the other night so not lacking in self confidence either
In all fairness he was completely airlocked!
Granted but it was hilarious at the same time
The media will take advantage of anybody who is in a vulnerable state,it makes better copy or will attract more viewers.
Remember the Wogan interview with George Best. Anyone in the public eye is fair game.
Quote from: Buswhacker on March 21, 2012, 12:17:38 PM
The media will take advantage of anybody who is in a vulnerable state,it makes better copy or will attract more viewers.
Remember the Wogan interview with George Best. Anyone in the public eye is fair game.
All the more reason for someone (who's wise enough to know what they're like) to have told them to clear off.
Quote from: Buswhacker on March 21, 2012, 12:17:38 PM
The media will take advantage of anybody who is in a vulnerable state,it makes better copy or will attract more viewers.
Remember the Wogan interview with George Best. Anyone in the public eye is fair game.
Bushwhacker catch a grip, he should have enough about himself to say to Sidebottom no Mark ive been on the drink all day I dont want to do the interview, failing that someone like his manager should have said to him Liam sit this on out you've had a bit too much.
Blaming the media is stretching it a bit too far and actually for all that it was, less that 2 minutes.
As I said,anybody in the public eye is fair game to the media especially if they are in a vulnerable state.
On saying that surely someone should be available to prevent this happening. Anyway Liam was sober next day but the reporter was still ugly.............. (and pissed himself later in the day I hear ).
No harm in it, no one died and fair fucks to Loughgiel, I doubt there was any player half sober at that point who would have came on and said something/anything which would resembled some sense.
Everyone was a bit tipsy, to say the least, including the reporter. No one was offended by anything he said. He didn't swear or anything like that. Powerful bit of nit-picking, again.
I'm sure he or anyone else in Loughgiel don't give a flying fk what anyone thinks about his performance on tv, not after his performance last Saturday in Croke park.
It wasn't that bad, he just stumbled over his words a bit at one point...no big deal.
The thing about it is, if he was playing for Kilkenny he would be every bit as good as the players he compared himself to.
Side point: There have been Antrim players going back years who would haved graced any of the top teams of their time
Quote from: theskull1 on March 22, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
Side point: There have been Antrim players going back years who would haved graced any of the top teams of their time
Very true, but you would agree Winker is a bit special
I think everyone would agree with you shawshank, especially after seeing his last two performances in the Loughgiel shirt.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on March 21, 2012, 07:38:55 PM
It wasn't that bad, he just stumbled over his words a bit at one point...no big deal.
You'd have thought Dan the man Gillan should have been put in front of the camera's, no better Loughgeil man than Dan.
Quote from: shawshank on March 22, 2012, 01:26:04 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 22, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
Side point: There have been Antrim players going back years who would haved graced any of the top teams of their time
Very true, but you would agree Winker is a bit special
I'll agree with you that he's a mecurial talent who on his day is an outstandingly good stickman so in that regard he is "special" as you say. He has though required too much special attention by mentors wrecking their heads dealing with him over the years for me to really hold him in any high esteem though. Give me the steady eddies every time for without them he'd be no where. These are meerly personal opinions which I know will make no sense in loughgiel now they have tommy moore.
Thats fair enough comment, thou your steady eddies don't win All Irelands. If Dunloy for example had a winker they would have had their All Ireland, maybe and probably more.
Quote from: shawshank on March 22, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
Thats fair enough comment, thou your steady eddies don't win All Irelands. If Dunloy for example had a winker they would have had their All Ireland, maybe and probably more.
I take it you have never seen Dunloy play then Shawshank?
Quote from: shawshank on March 22, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
Thats fair enough comment, thou your steady eddies don't win All Irelands. If Dunloy for example had a winker they would have had their All Ireland, maybe and probably more.
Dunloy had some of the best forwards Antrim have produced, they were not lacking in that regard. They were very unlucky and met brilliant opposition at the height of their powers.
Quote from: shawshank on March 22, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
Thats fair enough comment, thou your steady eddies don't win All Irelands. If Dunloy for example had a winker they would have had their All Ireland, maybe and probably more.
Ahem....Kilkenney springs to mind shawshank. Surely youre not suggesting that every team needs needs a 'george best' type player to win things
Quote from: theskull1 on March 22, 2012, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: shawshank on March 22, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
Thats fair enough comment, thou your steady eddies don't win All Irelands. If Dunloy for example had a winker they would have had their All Ireland, maybe and probably more.
Ahem....Kilkenney springs to mind shawshank. Surely youre not suggesting that every team needs needs a 'george best' type player to win things
Yeah, Dj and Henry are "steady eddies". ;)
Dunloy and the dall had their fair share of "George Best" characters when they were the kingpins of Ulster Skull, in that regard the shams are far from unique.
Nearly all the so called "greats" of hurling have played in club finals. None achieved in scoring terms what Liam did last week, or for that matter what he did in the semi-final. It's this that makes him the outstanding player today.
Joe Canning? Ben O'Connor, and thon auld lad that played for Buffers Alley Tony, christ, he scored a right few against Rossa. And of course not forgetting King Henry playing for Ballyhale.
The highest scorer ever in the club final MR2 and also the highest scorer in this years championship.
In both of those games what did he score from open play? Some achievement
I think he scored 0-7 in the semi and 2-02 in the final from open play.
Quote from: Seamroga in exile on March 22, 2012, 08:16:49 PM
I think he scored 0-7 in the semi and 2-02 in the final from open play.
It makes ya wonder why he only scored 3 the year before against Gaels, 2 of which were frees. But made up for in spades this year, 4-30 in total
Lets hope he turns that on for Antrim this year, half that would be great.
He would have to do it for a sustained period, at inter county level to be mentioned in the same company as the likes of Shefflin.
Quote from: Minder on March 22, 2012, 08:46:49 PM
He would have to do it for a sustained period, at inter county level to be mentioned in the same company as the likes of Shefflin.
In fairness it's hard for him to do it playing with the other Antrim players, and against better defenders I'd imagine
Sure it wouldn't matter if he scored 3-7 every day he went on pitch, always would be someone on here snipping!! He done it for us when it counted! Goes down for me as one of the best to ever hold a hurl, sorry if it sounds like am his lover ;D. But he is THAT good!! Plus it doesn't matter what he does for Antrim, he won't get an all star anyway, he done it for the shamrocks on the 17Th march 2012, rest is history
No one is snipping, havent heard a bad word said about his hurling ability yet!!
Boy, ya's are wild protective when there's no need.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2012, 08:07:50 PM
Joe Canning? Ben O'Connor, and thon auld lad that played for Buffers Alley Tony, christ, he scored a right few against Rossa. And of course not forgetting King Henry playing for Ballyhale.
Tony Doran. I think he was 43 then.
Quote from: Seamroga in exile on March 22, 2012, 07:46:25 PM
Yeah, Dj and Henry are "steady eddies". ;)
Dunloy and the dall had their fair share of "George Best" characters when they were the kingpins of Ulster Skull, in that regard the shams are far from unique.
Nearly all the so called "greats" of hurling have played in club finals. None achieved in scoring terms what Liam did last week, or for that matter what he did in the semi-final. It's this that makes him the outstanding player today.
I'm sure we could agree on a few SIE but they'd be in a much lower league altogether. I suppose he was that talented loughgiel kept pandering to him because they seen him as their salvation from all those years in the wilderness and that has eventually worked out in regards to winning this past couple of years. I'm sure if I was a sham I could just about swallow the way he carried on for years now he's delivered on the biggest stage of all. Have a hunch though that some shams on principle would have liked to have seen them win their first championship without him.....you'll not get many to admit it now though :)
I hope in the above post sleeping giant can find the appreciation of the mans talents amongst the critisicims that the man would probably admit to himself. I think thats a fairly balanced perspective rather than a snipe
Unlike most people skull he has already admitted publicly to making many mistakes on and off the field. As I have said many times before I'd have him on the field no matter what because of what we seen him do recently. We've seen him do it before as loughgiel supporters right through from he was cub. The talent has always been there.
He has been taking measures to improve himself. It seems to be working. Long may it continue.
am not saying the mans an angel. but cant do nothing but it be dragged up, we in our own wee parish :D did see what Liam was capable of, couple of championships and a few ulsters, now this, where does a team go from here??
Quote from: Sleeping giant on March 22, 2012, 10:01:53 PM
am not saying the mans an angel. but cant do nothing but it be dragged up, we in our own wee parish :D did see what Liam was capable of, couple of championships and a few ulsters, now this, where does a team go from here??
That's the problem, the only way is down after this, even the big teams find it hard to sustain the heights, always teams out there plotting the fall of the champions. I hope it's us ;D
if we are to fail in the drive for 3 in a row MR2, id rather it was use aswel;0)
Yeah, rather than your North Antrim friends lol
Personally all I'm trying to do bring some balance to the eulogising. No one is saying anything that wasn't brought up in the press. Hard for one not to be talked about without the other with winker. Time to move on
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2012, 10:14:44 PM
Yeah, rather than your North Antrim friends lol
dont ya know mr2, we aint got no friends ;D thats the way we like it!! :D i made a big shout b4 shamrocks won AI, honestly fancy the town to get to a final, draw didnt help my claim much, but still think they will be there :o
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2012, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 22, 2012, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2012, 08:07:50 PM
Joe Canning? Ben O'Connor, and thon auld lad that played for Buffers Alley Tony, christ, he scored a right few against Rossa. And of course not forgetting King Henry playing for Ballyhale.
Tony Doran. I think he was 43 then.
Dee Murray is a better full back today than the head the ball that lined out at 3 for Coolderry on Saturday.
+1
Had to laugh when he pushed up for offside before he conceded the free for the goal, all it was missing was the arm in the air ala Tony Adams ;D
Why am I thinking of a wheelie bin when Dee Murray comes to mind :)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: shawshank on March 22, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
Thats fair enough comment, thou your steady eddies don't win All Irelands. If Dunloy for example had a winker they would have had their All Ireland, maybe and probably more.
I take it you have never seen Dunloy play then Shawshank?
loads of times, and they were really great teams, and as good as some of their forwards were, none were Watsons, and I do take skulls point about the bother he has been etc, but when he's at himself and fully focused, such as he has been the past while, he is without doubt a class apart, the best forward Antrim has produce since the vintage of 89.
But to draw aparallel to Messi, he has done it at club level, but Argentina are still waiting for him to produce the same performances for them at world cups, in the same way Watson has to step up and produce it for Antrim now when he is now in his prime.
I don't think Winker was as good as Ally Elliott or Conor McCambridge in their prime.
I disagree. Two brilliant hurlers, no doubt about it, but I would rate winker every bit as good as them if not better. But then, this is a pointless path to go down as people like yourself won't throw off whichever coloured glasses it is you're looking through.
The rest of Ireland saw for themselves last week what winker can do. Big man for the big stage and all that. Can the same be truly said of Ally or Conor?
Elliot and McCambridge were good consistent players that could be depended on to not let the side down,but they didn't have that touch of genius that Watson is blessed with despite any other failings he might have.
As a complete neutral I would say Liam Watson is up there with the best ever hurlers to ever come out of ulster, I know that is a bold statement. But i've thought that long before the events of last Saturday. I don't know if you'll remember this SIE but I came on here a good while back and enquired about Watson as i hadn't seen him about for a while and was asking about whether he was injured etc and the comments that came after that post showed what a divisive character he was. But after last Saturdays performance and his performance in the semi, i think people now realise what a talent he is. Antrim are capable of going on a good run and hopefully Ulster hurling will see a bit of a boost with both Derry and Armagh seeming to be making good progress at the minute.
I'm sure people after reading the first line of my post will come back and say "nonsense, what about such and such they were the best hurler to come out of ulster."
I was fortunate to be down at Croker last Saturday but i'd be the first to admit i don't get to watch as much hurling as i'd like to but I really believe that Watson is up there with the best hurlers to have ever come out of Ulster.
In my eyes he is up there with two other hurlers:
Henry Downey - Unfortunately I didn't see an awful lot of Henry Downey hurling but people around Derry would often talk about how he really was exceptional and the fact that he made the Fitzgibbon team of the century should be testament enough to that.
Gerard McGrattan - I was only a kid when i watched that Down team of the early 90s but I'll always remember McGrattan. On his day the Portaferry man seemed unmarkable, he was unreal.
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 23, 2012, 01:41:19 PM
In my eyes he is up there with two other hurlers:
Henry Downey - Unfortunately I didn't see an awful lot of Henry Downey hurling but people around Derry would often talk about how he really was exceptional and the fact that he made the Fitzgibbon team of the century should be testament enough to that.
Gerard McGrattan - I was only a kid when i watched that Down team of the early 90s but I'll always remember McGrattan. On his day the Portaferry man seemed unmarkable, he was unreal.
No offence AF but you must have read more about ulster hurling in the Irish News than watched it. Both good hurlers (Downey moreso than McGrattan) but you'll not get many backing you up IMO.
None taken - would have watched a good bit of hurling as a kid but not so much at all now.
Fire out some names there that you would rate as Ulster's best.
Like i say i was a kid when i watched McGrattan and back then the world is black and white ... he got an all star so as a kid i probably felt that if he got an all star, he deserved an all star and that cemented him as up there with the greats. But i do remember being impressed any time i watched him.
Quote from: Seamroga in exile on March 23, 2012, 12:42:25 PM
I disagree. Two brilliant hurlers, no doubt about it, but I would rate winker every bit as good as them if not better. But then, this is a pointless path to go down as people like yourself won't throw off whichever coloured glasses it is you're looking through.
The rest of Ireland saw for themselves last week what winker can do. Big man for the big stage and all that. Can the same be truly said of Ally or Conor?
I'll say what everyone else is thinking before you boys get the carried away (I think that horse has already bolted though!). Loughgiel got the rub of the green this year with the best of Munster and Leinster being cleaned out earlier the competition.
When Dunloy and the Dall were playing All-Ireland semi-finals the teams were the likes of Birr, Portumna, Ballyhale, Athenry etc. Any of those teams would have had that Loughgiel team destroyed by half-time. But as I said at the time, you can only beat what is put in front of you. Luckily what was put in front of Loughgiel was a team with a poor full-back line. ;)
I didn't expect anything else from you, your previous posts are full of bile and anti loughgiel shit. Worthless contribution.
Quote from: Seamroga in exile on March 23, 2012, 04:14:04 PM
I didn't expect anything else from you, your previous posts are full of bile and anti loughgiel shit. Worthless contribution.
I can confirm Tony was cheering on the Shamrocks in Croke Park last week, there are other opinions outside Loughgiel Seamroga, and it doesn't mean it's "anti Loughgiel bile".
Tony Baloney that's nonsense.
Cushendall had Loughrea one year and La Salle another year. Both of these teams should have been very beatable.
Dunloy had some hard draws but it generally didn't stop them getting to the final.
All you have to do is take a look through his previous posts to see where I'm coming from minder.
Quote from: Seamroga in exile on March 23, 2012, 04:14:04 PM
I didn't expect anything else from you, your previous posts are full of bile and anti loughgiel shit. Worthless contribution.
Was down supporting them last Saturday so please link me to any posts that were anti-Loughgiel bile.
You need to lay off the drink.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
Tony Baloney that's nonsense.
Cushendall had Loughrea one year and La Salle another year. Both of these teams should have been very beatable.
Dunloy had some hard draws but it generally didn't stop them getting to the final.
Dunloy had a couple of pretty stunning semi victories - thinking of Glemore in 1995 and Mount Sion in 2003 - and and at least one heartbreaker (Sarsfields in 1998). Was a real shame that, for whatever reason (bad luck / good opposition) they never managed to go all the way.
Are you still partying hard in The Pound, SIE?
Haven't had a drink since Sunday. Some of us have to work. I'll put links up later if you really want me too.
I knew when this thread was started the usual suspects would turn up with as Bushwhacker calls it "aye but". Get over it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
Tony Baloney that's nonsense.
Cushendall had Loughrea one year and La Salle another year. Both of these teams should have been very beatable.
Dunloy had some hard draws but it generally didn't stop them getting to the final.
. +1. Na P or coolderry IMO are as good if not better than either of the teams named above!! To be truthful about the thing, I couldnt give to flying fcuks what outsiders think, 83/2012. Catch up!!!! ;)
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
Tony Baloney that's nonsense.
Cushendall had Loughrea one year and La Salle another year. Both of these teams should have been very beatable.
Dunloy had some hard draws but it generally didn't stop them getting to the final.
Yes they should have been beatable and a couple of years ago they were close to getting over the line against De La Salle where they would have met Portumna in the final. Don't get me wrong I am as glad to see Loughgiel winning as I was to see that sideline cut going over against the Dall but there are some individuals here that think this Loughgiel side are the best ever.
SIE if you have time you can post up those links later to keep yourself occupied. I won't have time to look at them though. :)
Tony Baloney........S..t stirring again. Or is nostalgia getting the better of you again.Birr, Athenry,Ballyhale,Portumna.....their cumbersome style of hurling doesn't hack it in the new modern age.New kids on the block mate,Cooldeery would have beaten those Dunloy or Dall teams by a bagful. Those old teams are no longer in the mix,they don't count any more.They come from a time when speed an fitness was of secondary importance, that's why they get thrashed by the new top teams.This Loughgiel team would destroy any team that ever got to a club final.......as I say,put nostalgia away this is 2012 not 1994.......new kids on the block.
Quote from: Buswhacker on March 23, 2012, 04:48:34 PM
Tony Baloney........S..t stirring again. Or is nostalgia getting the better of you again.Birr, Athenry,Ballyhale,Portumna.....their cumbersome style of hurling doesn't hack it in the new modern age.New kids on the block mate,Cooldeery would have beaten those Dunloy or Dall teams by a bagful. Those old teams are no longer in the mix,they don't count any more.They come from a time when speed an fitness was of secondary importance, that's why they get thrashed by the new top teams.This Loughgiel team would destroy any team that ever got to a club final.......as I say,put nostalgia away this is 2012 not 1994.......new kids on the block.
;D and you say I'm shit-stirring. Anyway, well done Loughgiel, winning the All-Ireland final more than makes up for choking in 6 county finals. The best in Ireland til St. Patrick's Day 2013.
I was just about to post before SG that has it ever occurred to you that the opposition that these teams (you all place upon a pedestal) were playing weren't up to much. Just a thought.
Tony Baloney's an "aye but"..........heard plenty this week from Dunloy and further afield.........."glad to see Loughgiel winning,aye but thon Birr team of 1994, or Sarsfields team of the year nobody can remember,aye but aye but,aye but...etc etc etc."
Learn to live with Shams are the only team with the bottle to win All-Irelands.........END OF STORY.
I'm sure the southern people are reading this thinking wtf? I'm also sure the respective supporters of Coolderry, Na Piarsaigh and Gort aren't that enamoured with the belittling of their respective achievements this season by you lot either.
As the boy once said, "you can only beat what's put in front of you".
Because we never beat Cross there are snipes at us, our lads at the time couldn't give a monkeys at the time, but a few years later I think that's their only target. Currently we are about 6 points worse off. The snipes wont go until we/if ever beat Cross.
Quote from: Buswhacker on March 23, 2012, 04:48:34 PM
Tony Baloney........S..t stirring again. Or is nostalgia getting the better of you again.Birr, Athenry,Ballyhale,Portumna.....their cumbersome style of hurling doesn't hack it in the new modern age.New kids on the block mate,Cooldeery would have beaten those Dunloy or Dall teams by a bagful. Those old teams are no longer in the mix,they don't count any more.They come from a time when speed an fitness was of secondary importance, that's why they get thrashed by the new top teams.This Loughgiel team would destroy any team that ever got to a club final.......as I say,put nostalgia away this is 2012 not 1994.......new kids on the block.
wow man your know your hurling, coolderry better than birr(nine all stars on that team and a county goalie 'Brian mullans' not some youngster complete out of his depth and didn't even take his coat off.
better than portuma, probably the best ever club team ever to lift hurls(altough just 3 all stars on that team)
better than ballyhale(shefflin,cha etc)
fair fcuks to loughgeil, ten out of ten for timing no big heavy hitters out at the moment tony baloney spot on here.
time for the sour grapes and 'aye but' replies instead of some serious facts. no need to say you don't care what we think 'thou dost protest to much'
I thought this thread was about Liam Watson, i thought he was magnificent last week, as good as you will see but he still has a bit to do at county level before he can be mentioned in the same breath as Whelahan(birr) canning brothers(portumna) or shefflin(ballyhale). I hope he kicks on and does it. lets hope his shots are more accurate than you ramblings
The same thing was said in '83 NAH, even though St. Rynagh's had 2 all-stars on their team. Might I suggest that if we've got anything more to say about the mighty Loughgiel Shamrocks' tremendous all-Ireland victory(ies) we keep it to the Antrim hurling thread. :)
This is the first time in 2 years that winker has been injury free. In fact it's the first time since getting "injured" against Dunloy in Ballycastle in the championship 2 years ago. He's in his prime and it would seem raring to go. I also hope that he brings that form to the saffrons, but a lot will depend on how the "steady Eddies" play along side him. Eddie McCloskey ran winker close for MOTM in both the semi and final and is also hurling out of his tree atm. Both need to be playing for things to improve for Antrim.
North Antrim Hound............The only way you can get back at Loughgiel and Liam Watson for being winners is by harping back to former winners and players.Birr et. al. were brilliant teams in their day,as they proved when they hammered Antrim teams time after time.But they're not there any more.You've joined the ever growing band of "aye buts" who never expected Antrim to produce champions again,and from your posts you are obviously sorry it was Loughgiel that came up with the goods.
You try to damn the Shamrocks with faint praise before launching in to tiresome stories about All-Stars and teams of the past.
Loughgiel beat all Ulster,Leinster and Munster had to offer,sorry there were no Ballyhales or Birrs,they were stuffed earlier in the competition.Get over it and try to hide you're unhealthy bias against a bloody good team who don't give a toss what you think.
Quote from: Buswhacker on March 25, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
North Antrim Hound............The only way you can get back at Loughgiel and Liam Watson for being winners is by harping back to former winners and players.Birr et. al. were brilliant teams in their day,as they proved when they hammered Antrim teams time after time.But they're not there any more.You've joined the ever growing band of "aye buts" who never expected Antrim to produce champions again,and from your posts you are obviously sorry it was Loughgiel that came up with the goods.
You try to damn the Shamrocks with faint praise before launching in to tiresome stories about All-Stars and teams of the past.
Loughgiel beat all Ulster,Leinster and Munster had to offer,sorry there were no Ballyhales or Birrs,they were stuffed earlier in the competition.Get over it and try to hide you're unhealthy bias against a bloody good team who don't give a toss what you think.
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dont be sorry there where no ballyhales or birr teams be glad.
hwos getting back at liam watson did you read my post. thats the problem with posting in these things, some clown doesnt read it right and then repsonds with something completely different.
SIE sorry if i caused any offence, shamrocks have the cup thats all that matters. no need to defend you fellow clubmen when there on here commenting on other club teams that where better than coolderry. your right this a is a liam watson thread so tell bushwanker
N.A H.........I know what it is "Aye but".You were indirectly casting aspersions on L.W's credentials as a hurler.
I quote a Southern paper to-day...." In bringing the Tommy Moore cup back to the Glens for a second time, the Shamrocks did their community and Ulster hurling proud. Hurling is without doubt the real gaelic game.
And man of the match Liam Watson - who scored 3-7- served up a hurling exhibition which was second to none.
Here's to Loughgiel Shamrocks - the Pride of the Glens - and also the Pride of Ireland
I'm just glad I was there".
Maybe you and you're nostalgia nit pickers should get you're head out of the Birr and Ballyhale sand,and come to realise what the rest of Ireland knows,and be "glad you were there" which I doubt very much.