Prison Sentences

[trailer]

Prisons are a way for society to deal with people who break the law. Stop people breaking the law deal with the prison issue. You're all looking at this the wrong way round.

[nrico2006]

Prisons are a way for society to deal with people who break the law. Stop people breaking the law deal with the prison issue. You're all looking at this the wrong way round.

Most people choose to abide by the law. Everyone knows what is lawful and what is not. You will never have a society of law abiding citizens.

[David McKeown]

I read somewhere last week that a fella who raped a wee boy and girl was released after 3 weeks, of a year sentence, as he was too vulnerable. One year is far too lenient but 3 weeks is as bad a punishment as I've heard. As for murder, in the simplest terms you should never be released surely? The punishment should be life and thats still a far better fate than the murder victim got. Too much of the sentences are focused on rehabilitation (no longer a danger to society etc etc), but the main objective of a sentence should be to punish.

The problem with that though is there's no incentive for the offender to engage at all which in turn would make prisons much more dangerous and difficult to manage. As I say it's a balancing exercise and a difficult one at that.

But surely there being no incentive to engage and therefore having prisons that are difficult to manage shouldnt be a reason not to put murderers away until they die. Why even call a sentence a life sentence when its really a lock of years.

Well that's what I mean it depends what you are looking for in a sentence. If it's purely to punish in a humane eye for an eye kind of way then yes whole life tariff sentences are the way to go. There are though drawbacks to those namely costs, unmanageable/unsafe prison. It does little to benefit society and are of little deterrent effect etc.

Personally I feel whole life tariffs are not a great idea but I can understand why people may think they are merited particularly when our tariffs are lower than they are in England/Wales. I though think people should be given an opportunity to change and atone for what they did but at the same time they should be subject to monitoring for sustained periods to ensure that change is genuine. The opportunity only coming after they have been sufficiently punished.

[playwiththewind1st]

Difficult to see how these guys can "atone" for, say, killing someone.  Usually starts off as murder, then we go for manslaughter. Bargain a bit & it's reduced to affray / assault. By the time it gets to court, it was entirely  the deceased's fault & the perpetrators can then walk free.

[nrico2006]

I also cant understand how any murderer should be given another chance. Its the most serious crime and has ended a life. The rest of your life should be in a cell.

[David McKeown]

Difficult to see how these guys can "atone" for, say, killing someone.  Usually starts off as murder, then we go for manslaughter. Bargain a bit & it's reduced to affray / assault. By the time it gets to court, it was entirely  the deceased's fault & the perpetrators can then walk free.

I've never seen that happen in reality. Yes there are media portrails of that kind of thing happening and no doubt there are cases that ultimately proceed as manslaughter when they were clearly murder because murder is so hard to prove but I've yet to come across a clear case of murder from which perpetrators walk free due to bargains or blaming the accused. To suggest it's the usual way these things happen would certainly not be my experience.

[Tover28]

I don't see any deterrent.....bar conjugal rights what does a prisoner not have? They have access to medical/dental treatment, education, gyms, tv, mobile phones, 3 meals a day, no worries about heat....many pensioners/people don't have that. Some deterrent 😡

I know people think that alright but it isnt really as easy as you make out.

I've been in prison and alot of shit goes on. You would have to have a very bad life on the outside (which alot of prisoners do) to think prison was a good place to be.

Looking back I have t say that I deserved the punishment I got. My last sentence was for 2 years. In some ways it was the best thing to happen to me as if I had continued on the way I was I could have ended up in a much worse situation.

I remember thinking after a few weeks what the F*** am I doing with my life to end up back in here. I think it was a mix of growing up, knowing all the crap I had put my family through and dealing with the shit that you see in prison. I wanted to change things but you do need support to do that.

I had done a short sentence before but that diidnt really do me any good. It was only a few months and I was there with  a few lads I knew from home. I dont think short sentences really work. It was when I got 2 years that it hit me.

Pretty much everybody will get out of prison eventually  so you want to "improve" people for when they get out. You can keep people locked up 23 hours a day in filthy overcrowded cells with nothing to do if you want but is that going to do anything  for them?

I was in Mountjoy and that has changed over the years. Slopping out is gone and I had a single cell which is so much better as when you are locked up in the evening you can get away from all the other shit that is going on and dont have to keep up your "prison face". The previous time I was there I was sharing a cell and had to slop out so was very different. There is also more work and education than there used to be.

The main thing though I think is what happens after you get released, You have no idea how good it feels walking out those prison gates and back into the free world. I was lucky in that I had my family to go back to, no drugs problem etc but for some lads they end up going straight back to drugs or on the street and end up back in trouble again. I dont know what the answer is to that as they do get offered help in prison but addiction or temptation is too much when they get out.

Things are much better for me now. Ive gone back to college about 10 years after dropping out and am working part time.

[Substandard]

I don't see any deterrent.....bar conjugal rights what does a prisoner not have? They have access to medical/dental treatment, education, gyms, tv, mobile phones, 3 meals a day, no worries about heat....many pensioners/people don't have that. Some deterrent 😡

I know people think that alright but it isnt really as easy as you make out.

I've been in prison and alot of shit goes on. You would have to have a very bad life on the outside (which alot of prisoners do) to think prison was a good place to be.

Looking back I have t say that I deserved the punishment I got. My last sentence was for 2 years. In some ways it was the best thing to happen to me as if I had continued on the way I was I could have ended up in a much worse situation.

I remember thinking after a few weeks what the F*** am I doing with my life to end up back in here. I think it was a mix of growing up, knowing all the crap I had put my family through and dealing with the shit that you see in prison. I wanted to change things but you do need support to do that.

I had done a short sentence before but that diidnt really do me any good. It was only a few months and I was there with  a few lads I knew from home. I dont think short sentences really work. It was when I got 2 years that it hit me.

Pretty much everybody will get out of prison eventually  so you want to "improve" people for when they get out. You can keep people locked up 23 hours a day in filthy overcrowded cells with nothing to do if you want but is that going to do anything  for them?

I was in Mountjoy and that has changed over the years. Slopping out is gone and I had a single cell which is so much better as when you are locked up in the evening you can get away from all the other shit that is going on and dont have to keep up your "prison face". The previous time I was there I was sharing a cell and had to slop out so was very different. There is also more work and education than there used to be.

The main thing though I think is what happens after you get released, You have no idea how good it feels walking out those prison gates and back into the free world. I was lucky in that I had my family to go back to, no drugs problem etc but for some lads they end up going straight back to drugs or on the street and end up back in trouble again. I dont know what the answer is to that as they do get offered help in prison but addiction or temptation is too much when they get out.

Things are much better for me now. Ive gone back to college about 10 years after dropping out and am working part time.

Fair play, and the best of luck to you.  I've seen kids from school end up serving sentences,  usually drugs-related.  Only one or two were what I would have considered bad eggs, but mostly they were naive or easily led- basically decent kids that fell in with a bad crowd.
Environment has a huge impact- many times I've seen kids in first year who are bright, intelligent and ambitious or competitive in class gradually fall by the wayside.  You hear stories a couple of years after they leave school, and think what might have been.

It's a very complex concept.  I grew up in a stable, relatively comfortable home environment where there was a heavy emphasis on right and wrong, and I was for a long time along the lines of do the crime, do the time, and that that punishment should be harsh and a deterrent.
Gradually I've come to realize it's not so black and white.  I don't know a whole pile about the law, sentencing and prison. I think for a lot of people, the view of prison life and prisoners ranges from a sympathetic notion of the nobility of Andy Dufrense and Red in the Shawshank Redemption to outrage over sensationalist exposes in the Sunday World.

Again I wish you the very best.  I'm not making assumptions about what you are studying or your plans in life, but I do think that someone with your experience would have a huge role to play in helping young offenders, potential young offenders or people already in prison. 
As Red said: 'Rehabilitated? Well now, let me see. You know, I don't have any idea what that means...'

[brokencrossbar1]

I don't see any deterrent.....bar conjugal rights what does a prisoner not have? They have access to medical/dental treatment, education, gyms, tv, mobile phones, 3 meals a day, no worries about heat....many pensioners/people don't have that. Some deterrent 😡

I know people think that alright but it isnt really as easy as you make out.

I've been in prison and alot of shit goes on. You would have to have a very bad life on the outside (which alot of prisoners do) to think prison was a good place to be.

Looking back I have t say that I deserved the punishment I got. My last sentence was for 2 years. In some ways it was the best thing to happen to me as if I had continued on the way I was I could have ended up in a much worse situation.

I remember thinking after a few weeks what the F*** am I doing with my life to end up back in here. I think it was a mix of growing up, knowing all the crap I had put my family through and dealing with the shit that you see in prison. I wanted to change things but you do need support to do that.

I had done a short sentence before but that diidnt really do me any good. It was only a few months and I was there with  a few lads I knew from home. I dont think short sentences really work. It was when I got 2 years that it hit me.

Pretty much everybody will get out of prison eventually  so you want to "improve" people for when they get out. You can keep people locked up 23 hours a day in filthy overcrowded cells with nothing to do if you want but is that going to do anything  for them?

I was in Mountjoy and that has changed over the years. Slopping out is gone and I had a single cell which is so much better as when you are locked up in the evening you can get away from all the other shit that is going on and dont have to keep up your "prison face". The previous time I was there I was sharing a cell and had to slop out so was very different. There is also more work and education than there used to be.

The main thing though I think is what happens after you get released, You have no idea how good it feels walking out those prison gates and back into the free world. I was lucky in that I had my family to go back to, no drugs problem etc but for some lads they end up going straight back to drugs or on the street and end up back in trouble again. I dont know what the answer is to that as they do get offered help in prison but addiction or temptation is too much when they get out.

Things are much better for me now. Ive gone back to college about 10 years after dropping out and am working part time.

Fair play to you lad. I know how shitty it is in some of those places and the whole slopping out. business that went in was degrading to say the least. I am taking a number of cases against the prison authorities in respect of some of the stuff that has happened and continues to happen in the prisons. The big thing is that there is no real effort to rehabilitate. The Penal reform groups that have been banging on about this for years are not getting any real hearing. There has been incremental change but it is very slow and the IPS do not want to give ground on anything. Prison is needed but there needs to be an overhaul of how it is done.

[Insane Bolt]

I don't see any deterrent.....bar conjugal rights what does a prisoner not have? They have access to medical/dental treatment, education, gyms, tv, mobile phones, 3 meals a day, no worries about heat....many pensioners/people don't have that. Some deterrent 😡

I know people think that alright but it isnt really as easy as you make out.

I've been in prison and alot of shit goes on. You would have to have a very bad life on the outside (which alot of prisoners do) to think prison was a good place to be.

Looking back I have t say that I deserved the punishment I got. My last sentence was for 2 years. In some ways it was the best thing to happen to me as if I had continued on the way I was I could have ended up in a much worse situation.

I remember thinking after a few weeks what the F*** am I doing with my life to end up back in here. I think it was a mix of growing up, knowing all the crap I had put my family through and dealing with the shit that you see in prison. I wanted to change things but you do need support to do that.

I had done a short sentence before but that diidnt really do me any good. It was only a few months and I was there with  a few lads I knew from home. I dont think short sentences really work. It was when I got 2 years that it hit me.

Pretty much everybody will get out of prison eventually  so you want to "improve" people for when they get out. You can keep people locked up 23 hours a day in filthy overcrowded cells with nothing to do if you want but is that going to do anything  for them?

I was in Mountjoy and that has changed over the years. Slopping out is gone and I had a single cell which is so much better as when you are locked up in the evening you can get away from all the other shit that is going on and dont have to keep up your "prison face". The previous time I was there I was sharing a cell and had to slop out so was very different. There is also more work and education than there used to be.

The main thing though I think is what happens after you get released, You have no idea how good it feels walking out those prison gates and back into the free world. I was lucky in that I had my family to go back to, no drugs problem etc but for some lads they end up going straight back to drugs or on the street and end up back in trouble again. I dont know what the answer is to that as they do get offered help in prison but addiction or temptation is too much when they get out.

Things are much better for me now. Ive gone back to college about 10 years after dropping out and am working part time.

Prison isn't supposed to be easy....it's supposed to be a deterrent. By your own admission it took you 2 prison terms before you decided to change....good that you have changed things around, but the choices you have made now in relation to college were available before. Life is about choices.....and the subsequent consequences.

[brokencrossbar1]

I don't see any deterrent.....bar conjugal rights what does a prisoner not have? They have access to medical/dental treatment, education, gyms, tv, mobile phones, 3 meals a day, no worries about heat....many pensioners/people don't have that. Some deterrent 😡

I know people think that alright but it isnt really as easy as you make out.

I've been in prison and alot of shit goes on. You would have to have a very bad life on the outside (which alot of prisoners do) to think prison was a good place to be.

Looking back I have t say that I deserved the punishment I got. My last sentence was for 2 years. In some ways it was the best thing to happen to me as if I had continued on the way I was I could have ended up in a much worse situation.

I remember thinking after a few weeks what the F*** am I doing with my life to end up back in here. I think it was a mix of growing up, knowing all the crap I had put my family through and dealing with the shit that you see in prison. I wanted to change things but you do need support to do that.

I had done a short sentence before but that diidnt really do me any good. It was only a few months and I was there with  a few lads I knew from home. I dont think short sentences really work. It was when I got 2 years that it hit me.

Pretty much everybody will get out of prison eventually  so you want to "improve" people for when they get out. You can keep people locked up 23 hours a day in filthy overcrowded cells with nothing to do if you want but is that going to do anything  for them?

I was in Mountjoy and that has changed over the years. Slopping out is gone and I had a single cell which is so much better as when you are locked up in the evening you can get away from all the other shit that is going on and dont have to keep up your "prison face". The previous time I was there I was sharing a cell and had to slop out so was very different. There is also more work and education than there used to be.

The main thing though I think is what happens after you get released, You have no idea how good it feels walking out those prison gates and back into the free world. I was lucky in that I had my family to go back to, no drugs problem etc but for some lads they end up going straight back to drugs or on the street and end up back in trouble again. I dont know what the answer is to that as they do get offered help in prison but addiction or temptation is too much when they get out.

Things are much better for me now. Ive gone back to college about 10 years after dropping out and am working part time.

Prison isn't supposed to be easy....it's supposed to be a deterrent. By your own admission it took you 2 prison terms before you decided to change....good that you have changed things around, but the choices you have made now in relation to college were available before. Life is about choices.....and the subsequent consequences.

Life is about choices but what if you are born into a set of circumstances where your choices are effectively pre-determined for you?  I'm not saying it's the case with this poster but if you're born into a set of social and economic circumstances that you have no control over then by the time you are 11-12 you know nothing apart from poverty, abuse and cimimnal behaviour....what is your choice?  Crime is a completely inter-generational thing and if you stand round the district courts you see the same beaten down faces from family to family and they have no way out. Prison is inevitable and by the time most are 15-16 they are hardened to the world and will not change.  This is the said reality of the society we live in and I don't see it changing soon

[Milltown Row2]

The question was asked before (I think) what's the best deterrent for prison or breaking the law?

Few factors:

Poor upbringing including, dysfunctional family, lack of leadership, bad decision making, no moral compass, generations of unemployment and lack of support with their kids on schooling..

You are then left with poor mental health care support, or a better understanding of people suffering with mental issues which can prove dangerous to others..

Drug/drink/gambling addition have an impact with crime also

Creating environments that will reduce the above would be a start. There are many more, too many to recount

Better education, supporting families, better paid jobs, successful  addiction programs, improved support for mental issues.. fixing the problem at the source would be far better than sticking them in a cell 23 hours a day!

[Insane Bolt]

I would prefer that those sent to prison are 'employed'  in something constructive rather than locked in a cell for 23 hours.....but again I say as it stands prison is no deterrent.

[brokencrossbar1]

I would prefer that those sent to prison are 'employed'  in something constructive rather than locked in a cell for 23 hours.....but again I say as it stands prison is no deterrent.

In some cases they are. There are open prison systems for certain offences where the inmates work on a daily basis in a job and are not kept in the cells. That can't be done with every type of offence but is adopted.

[David McKeown]

I would prefer that those sent to prison are 'employed'  in something constructive rather than locked in a cell for 23 hours.....but again I say as it stands prison is no deterrent.

No you are quite right however criminologists will tell you that no prison system in the world is a particularly good deterrent.