Farming.

[lawnseed]

Just reading some of the reports on the beef meeting in the kings hall last week. The guy from tescos began his speech with the statement that beef was losing popularity with shoppers who were favouring chicken and pork. So it follows that in order to compete the price of beef should come down.. It has! But only at the farmgate tesco increased the price of beef in 2014 by 7% in their stores. Every little helps.  Or as shoppers are discovering every lidl helps

[orangeman]

Farmers getting the silage equipment ready. Not be long now. 

[moysider]

Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.

Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.

Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.

I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.

[trileacman]

Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.

Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.

Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.

I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.

Could you not just have asked her to pull it?

[moysider]

Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.

Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.

Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.

I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.

Could you not just have asked her to pull it?

No. Absolutely not. She d have walked away - and in hindsight that might not have been a bad thing.
When you call a vet out they are the pros and they decide.

[trileacman]

Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.

Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.

Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.

I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.

Could you not just have asked her to pull it?

No. Absolutely not. She d have walked away - and in hindsight that might not have been a bad thing.
When you call a vet out they are the pros and they decide.

If you're gonna concede that they're the pros, they decide and they're in charge then what are you complaining about? What your explaining to me is that you were unable to calve the cow yourself, called the vet and she delivered you a live calf and cow and your still pissed. What your saying is "I didn't have the knowledge to calve the cow meself but the person who I called to calve the cow and managed it is wrong and I know better than them".

[moysider]

This presentation is rare enough, maybe one in 500 births and its several years since I came across last one and I concede I erred on the side of caution and called vets for insurance. If you go to dentist with a small cavity you don't expect to end up with an extraction or end up with an amputation if you break your leg.
Once the calf was righted it could have been a straight forward pull and I m sure that is what the other vets in the practice would have done.
Anyway I ll know better next time.

[macdanger2]

Bollix trileac, yes he called a professional but it sounds like she's too fond of going for the knife, esp in the light of the incident when another vet attended. If you're paying for a service, you have a right to question the quality of it.

I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.

[trileacman]

I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.

So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?

[trileacman]

This presentation is rare enough, maybe one in 500 births and its several years since I came across last one and I concede I erred on the side of caution and called vets for insurance. If you go to dentist with a small cavity you don't expect to end up with an extraction or end up with an amputation if you break your leg.
Once the calf was righted it could have been a straight forward pull and I m sure that is what the other vets in the practice would have done.
Anyway I ll know better next time.

That's not a comparable analogy. A comparable analogy is taking your wife to the hospital and they decide to preform a section but despite their experience and training you think it's needless butchery.

[moysider]

I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.

So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?

I was on my own at the time (bro at a wedding and maybe because it was his cow I was more inclined to get help because I didn t want anything to go wrong), and this presentation is impossible for one person to do. One person needs to keep traction on a foot rope while the other twists the calf over with the other leg. That s in a standing cow. If the animal is down its a different story. My location is not full of people who could help and my wife and kids are no farmers. At 11 o clock at night calling the vet seemed the sensible thing to do because I could not proceed alone.
Now I realise for the vet, time is money and another call could come at any time. When the calf was righted it became a normal birth but I realise the cow would need to be left to get on with it by herself for some time so that her cervix would get a chance to open up properly. The calf was strong and there was no great urgency. Besides a section takes some time as there is a lot of prep involved.
I ve seen every calving difficulty in the book - including Siamese twins - and it is the first time I ve had cause to doubt a veterinary decision.

I had some explaining to do next day when brother sobered up! An average calf and its mother cut up.

[omaghjoe]

I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.

So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?

Steady on Trillick, they paid for services to get the best possible solution, they have seen numerous calvings and have a good knowledge on the subject and its their property so they are entitled to an opinion on what the best solution might be. But also for the above reason I think you should have let your opinion be known to the vet moysider...

[macdanger2]

I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.

So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?

Fairly simple really, he's called out dozens of vets over the years in similar circumstances and has never seen one behave like this fella did.

[Farrandeelin]

That's the worst thing when it's not your own moy. You have to be extra careful. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Farrandeelin]

I said YES an hour ago when we got the silage in for the year.