Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
It's always a good time to be a farmer.
There is no such thing as a poor farmer,though they will all try their damnedest to convince you they are poor.
Quote from: laoislad on September 13, 2012, 10:13:15 PM
It's always a good time to be a farmer.
There is no such thing as a poor farmer,though they will all try their damnedest to convince you they are poor.
Thats what i was thinking,they cry poverty yet they all drive about in new crew cabs and pick ups
Earlier on in the year the cattle prices were sky high as exports and haulage seemed to want them. The prices have dropped a fair bit over the past month however. Saying that, it's gone on and there's always jobs to be done. And it didn't crash like the building boom.
Nobody poor mouths quite like a farmer. Single farm payment, grants from every Tom, Dick and Harry, driving about on the red, VAT reclaims, full child tax credits... There isn't a stroke farmers don't know.
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
I don't think ye can 'get into' farming mucker!!!!!!!! I think its one of those things thats in the blood and family.......... and if ye don't know the front or back end of a cow..................what about a sheep............ You see where i'm going here!!
Leave the farming to the farmers; I reckon it is more tricky than meets the eye!!
Quote from: theticklemister on September 14, 2012, 12:36:27 AM
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
I don't think ye can 'get into' farming mucker!!!!!!!! I think its one of those things thats in the blood and family.......... and if ye don't know the front or back end of a cow..................what about a sheep............ You see where i'm going here!!
Leave the farming to the farmers; I reckon it is more tricky than meets the eye!!
Leave the sheep out of this.
on the fish-out-of-water angle.... does ireland have upper middle class types who'd like nothing as much as a wee plot of land to grow a few pigs, some organic veggies, a la hugh fearnley-whittingstall? i can't see it myself.
How do you grow pigs? Is there special seeds you can get?
Quote from: cadence on September 14, 2012, 08:38:56 AM
on the fish-out-of-water angle.... does ireland have upper middle class types who'd like nothing as much as a wee plot of land to grow a few pigs, some organic veggies, a la hugh fearnley-whittingstall? i can't see it myself.
I think its not as easy as all that now. I think due to farm quality regulations a farmer can't sell you livestock unless you've got your own herd book and they're issued by the department of agriculture (or whatever they're called now), traceability and all that.
Quote from: Jonah on September 14, 2012, 08:45:12 AM
How do you grow pigs? Is there special seeds you can get?
;D i have obviously no idea, although i do think this sheep needs someone to talk to...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIaFtAKnqBU&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: johnneycool on September 14, 2012, 08:54:06 AM
Quote from: cadence on September 14, 2012, 08:38:56 AM
on the fish-out-of-water angle.... does ireland have upper middle class types who'd like nothing as much as a wee plot of land to grow a few pigs, some organic veggies, a la hugh fearnley-whittingstall? i can't see it myself.
I think its not as easy as all that now. I think due to farm quality regulations a farmer can't sell you livestock unless you've got your own herd book and they're issued by the department of agriculture (or whatever they're called now), traceability and all that.
escaping to the country, but not from the bureaucracy. aside from these challenges, it's the know-how to grow pigs etc that a beginner might find they would need brushing up on?
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg (http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg)
Contact these boys I reckon and you get a ready made pig-farm!!!
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 14, 2012, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg (http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg)
Contact these boys I reckon and you get a ready made pig-farm!!!
i will not! animals are too cute and they get grown and sent away to be killed. def not the message that babe, or babe:
pig in the city was about.
Quote from: cadence on September 14, 2012, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 14, 2012, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg (http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg)
Contact these boys I reckon and you get a ready made pig-farm!!!
i will not! animals are too cute and they get grown and sent away to be killed. def not the message that babe, or babe: pig in the city was about.
I think if you watch Babe again, you will find that's exactly what the message was! Only that Babe was such an exceptional pig he was spared the butchers knife.
That'll do pig, that'll do ;)
Idiots - tell you what being a civil servant and posting on this is ten times easier than farming - sure I'll rock in at a quarter to ten get a sausage roll, have a smoke break, 11am - time for break. Back in office - check gaaboard - smoke break, theres dinner time - grub and the bookies. Back in do half an hour - smoke break - Jaysus nearly half three - hometime - wasters
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 14, 2012, 12:14:52 AM
Nobody poor mouths quite like a farmer. Single farm payment, grants from every Tom, Dick and Harry, driving about on the red, VAT reclaims, full child tax credits... There isn't a stroke farmers don't know.
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: laoislad on September 13, 2012, 10:13:15 PM
It's always a good time to be a farmer.
There is no such thing as a poor farmer,though they will all try their damnedest to convince you they are poor.
Thats what i was thinking,they cry poverty yet they all drive about in new crew cabs and pick ups
Quote from: laoislad on September 13, 2012, 10:13:15 PM
It's always a good time to be a farmer.
There is no such thing as a poor farmer,though they will all try their damnedest to convince you they are poor.
If farming is such a ride in the park then how come smart lads such as yourself haven't packed in the nine to five, 5 days a week lark and gone off and started into it? Could you state your own occupation before slating off some other one?
Quote from: NAG1 on September 14, 2012, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: cadence on September 14, 2012, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 14, 2012, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: Family guy on September 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Is there any farmersr on this???Was chatting to a fella the day and he was telling me to get in2 farming now as it is a good time to get in as theres bad prices for cows.I wouldnt know the front end to the back end of a cow,but is there much till the old farming??
http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg (http://www.dalehead.co.uk/about-us/farms/pigs/opportunities/?gclid=CKqg7dPQtLICFeTHtAodeT0Ajg)
Contact these boys I reckon and you get a ready made pig-farm!!!
i will not! animals are too cute and they get grown and sent away to be killed. def not the message that babe, or babe: pig in the city was about.
I think if you watch Babe again, you will find that's exactly what the message was! Only that Babe was such an exceptional pig he was spared the butchers knife.
That'll do pig, that'll do ;)
no way.... babe was the best sheep dog, message being identity is not fixed, you can be who you wanna be and go where you wanna go, including not into some pot to be eaten by some nasty old humans who don't understand pigs!
Any foriegners looking in this thread will think..............typical Irish lol!!
Is it just me or are most farmers in the North sally rods?
Quote from: fitzroyalty on September 14, 2012, 01:02:59 PM
Is it just me or are most farmers in the North sally rods?
Only the rich ones.
I will say one thing about farmers is the fine feed you get when you do work for them.
I spent a few years wiring and re wiring milking parlours and wiring in new milking machines etc.
I guess they all got grants at the same time or something because it kept me in work for two years doing all the work for numerous farmers.
Anyway the feeds you would get at lunch time were unreal, you could get anything on the plate but they were huge and you'd be hardly able do any work afterwards. I put on a few stone over the couple of years.
What is the costs associated with selling livestock these days- sheep, cows, pigs etc?
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 14, 2012, 01:01:22 PM
Farming in Mid-Ulster at the moment isn't doing too badly in terms of prices at least for sheep. Not too badly at least compared to a number of years ago, but no gold mine either. Wool was worth little a couple of years ago but has risen a bit in price with more demand in insulation. The cold weather back in the spring during the lambing season hindered grass growth at a time of year it was badly needed. Don't know as much about cattle, but the recent milk price protests suggests things aren't all rosy there.
never knew sheep wool could be used for home insulation. great use of natural resources... and good alternative to them stingy rolls of rockwool.
Does any one know anyone or anything about growing buleberries/bilberries on bog/peatland??
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 14, 2012, 01:01:22 PM
Farming in Mid-Ulster at the moment isn't doing too badly in terms of prices at least for sheep. Not too badly at least compared to a number of years ago, but no gold mine either. Wool was worth little a couple of years ago but has risen a bit in price with more demand in insulation. The cold weather back in the spring during the lambing season hindered grass growth at a time of year it was badly needed. Don't know as much about cattle, but the recent milk price protests suggests things aren't all rosy there.
Would read eff all into the wool thing, it's maybe worth twice what it was two years ago but still that's maybe two pound a fleece as opposed to one, minimal really related to the price of keeping a sheep all year round. Milk market has no arse in it, not going well at all. Beef is currently a good market but it is heavily dependent on two markets, grain and diesel which are driving up running costs at the current time. Currently many can remain in profit but the margins are being eroded as grain prices rise and beef prices are cut by beef processors under pressure from a very monopolized supermarket sector in the UK and Ireland.
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on September 14, 2012, 01:52:42 PM
What is the costs associated with selling livestock these days- sheep, cows, pigs etc?
Sheep- low input but also a business with a lower turnover. The main cost is grain feed at around 250euro a tonne. Then you would have red diesel at your local rate and take ground at about 150 euro an acre, at the scales lower end. A finished lamb is worth about 79pound a head, so you'll need to have 500 a year to ensure a turnover of £40,000. For 500 lambs you'll need somewhere in the region of 300 ewes which if you are lambing over a month is 10 a day. From your turnover of 40,000 remove costs for grain, ground, diesel, vet bills, buying replacement stock and whatever you price your own time at.
Quote from: cadence on September 14, 2012, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 14, 2012, 01:01:22 PM
Farming in Mid-Ulster at the moment isn't doing too badly in terms of prices at least for sheep. Not too badly at least compared to a number of years ago, but no gold mine either. Wool was worth little a couple of years ago but has risen a bit in price with more demand in insulation. The cold weather back in the spring during the lambing season hindered grass growth at a time of year it was badly needed. Don't know as much about cattle, but the recent milk price protests suggests things aren't all rosy there.
never knew sheep wool could be used for home insulation. great use of natural resources... and good alternative to them stingy rolls of rockwool.
The Roscommon fellas have other uses for sheep.
Quote from: laoislad on September 14, 2012, 11:27:23 PM
The Roscommon fellas have other uses for sheep.
Cant believe this took until the the second page to raise its ugly head...
At least 2 killed in a slurry tank this evening. That is about 1 farm death a month over the past 2 years - the worst spell in 25 years.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 15, 2012, 08:32:02 PM
At least 2 killed in a slurry tank this evening. That is about 1 farm death a month over the past 2 years - the worst spell in 25 years.
Saying 3 people now, from same family.
Edit - Two brothers and their father.
The smell is crazy man.
Arron, what the f+ck is that mean't to mean, p***k. Sympathy to the family, a terrible tragedy. I think that's 23 farm deaths in the North since Jan '11.
Same happened a while back. One man goes down so another goes in, gets overcome by fumes and so on.
The odour of slurry I meant. Farming nOt 100% safe and the incidence of slurry tank deaths is 2 high.
Turns out sadly that one of the deceased is Nevin Spence, who played for Ulster and Ireland U-20s. RIP, awful tragedy.
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2012, 10:22:41 PM
I know fcuk all about these things so this may sound stupid as fcuk but.....
Would it do any good to have a type of life jacket or a safety belt tied around ye so that if you fall in, you could be yanked out sharpish?
Is it the fumes that do ye or drowning? Both?
When there are multiple deaths usually one person has fallen in due to a variety of reasons, subsequent casualties generally killed by fumes (methane, ammonia, hydrogen sulphide etc). Really needs BA to go into that environment to pull someone out. In the heat of the moment the first instinct would be to get the person out.
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2012, 10:22:41 PM
I know fcuk all about these things so this may sound stupid as fcuk but.....
Would it do any good to have a type of life jacket or a safety belt tied around ye so that if you fall in, you could be yanked out sharpish?
Is it the fumes that do ye or drowning? Both?
Think it's the Hydrogen Sulphide gas thats the killer....crying out for a cheap sensor alarm unit..My heart goes out to that poor family
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2012, 10:22:41 PM
I know fcuk all about these things so this may sound stupid as fcuk but.....
Would it do any good to have a type of life jacket or a safety belt tied around ye so that if you fall in, you could be yanked out sharpish?
Is it the fumes that do ye or drowning? Both?
Your suggestion wouldn't really work, be like saying if you are a lifeguard or a swimmer at a beach shouldn't you tie yourself to something first. If someone falls in you would hardly go running around looking for a rope.
I always thought it would be drowning that would be fatal. Slurry has a consistency thicker than water, fully clothed it would be like trying to swim through treacle.
There was a law up until 25 yrs ago that said tanks could only be 6 ft deep, but it was abolished. tanks now are usually between 10-15 ft deep.
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2012, 11:05:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 15, 2012, 10:51:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2012, 10:22:41 PM
I know fcuk all about these things so this may sound stupid as fcuk but.....
Would it do any good to have a type of life jacket or a safety belt tied around ye so that if you fall in, you could be yanked out sharpish?
Is it the fumes that do ye or drowning? Both?
Your suggestion wouldn't really work, be like saying if you are a lifeguard or a swimmer at a beach shouldn't you tie yourself to something first. If someone falls in you would hardly go running around looking for a rope.
I'm not sure I'm with you there. A swimmer on a beach is swimming around for leisure which is hardly the same as falling into slurry. A lifeguard usually is tied to a float.
What I mean is if there is even the slightest chance that you'd fall in, would you not be better wearing something that would at least keep you afloat. Half the battle?
Like a fisherman wearing a life-jacket.
Again, I have no idea.
Most farmers go there whole life without ever falling into a slurry tank, most preventative measures focus on reducing the likelihood of falling into a tank not on giving you a better chance of floating if you do. Not many would consider strapping a lifebelt over the top of there clothes and overalls when working with slurry.
I'll put it this way would you wear a crash helmet every time you stepped behind the wheel? I mean it would greatly increase the chances of you surviving a crash and crashes are a common occurrence whilst driving. But people don't because it would be a hindrance and no-one forces you to do it. Likewise for your life-jacket or rope idea. No-ones going to wear one because firstly they don't think its likely they'll fall in and secondly because no-one makes them wear one.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2012, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 15, 2012, 10:51:58 PM
There was a law up until 25 yrs ago that said tanks could only be 6 ft deep, but it was abolished. tanks now are usually between 10-15 ft deep.
You would stand no chance in that kind of depth. Terrible tragedy.
I could never understand this. To me it always seemed obvious to require the wire mesh used in concrete spaced every three or four feet so if someone did fall in at least they could stand up again. Then again I suppose it's the fumes that is probably the real danger.
This is a terrible event but as a fella who had a little bit of farming contact why was there slurry in the tank this time of the year?
Is slurry not spread in springtime after the cattle are let out of the shed so this time of year it should have been well spread awaiting the next boarding of the herd in Nov/Dec.
Maybe my farming methods are dark ages stuff.
RIP to the unfortunates who died here.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 16, 2012, 12:02:30 PM
This is a terrible event but as a fella who had a little bit of farming contact why was there slurry in the tank this time of the year?
Is slurry not spread in springtime after the cattle are let out of the shed so this time of year it should have been well spread awaiting the next boarding of the herd in Nov/Dec.
Maybe my farming methods are dark ages stuff.
RIP to the unfortunates who died here.
Wet summer, fewer cattle were let out. Large feedlots, pig farmers and some dairy farmers keep their stock in all year round. I'd say 50% of the Irish herd is currently indoors, not Nov/Dec.
Quote from: Ulick on September 16, 2012, 02:04:51 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2012, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 15, 2012, 10:51:58 PM
There was a law up until 25 yrs ago that said tanks could only be 6 ft deep, but it was abolished. tanks now are usually between 10-15 ft deep.
You would stand no chance in that kind of depth. Terrible tragedy.
I could never understand this. To me it always seemed obvious to require the wire mesh used in concrete spaced every three or four feet so if someone did fall in at least they could stand up again. Then again I suppose it's the fumes that is probably the real danger.
How could you mix it then?
I'm a farmer, and we're currently so happy with life, that we're taking to the streets of Dublin on October 9'th to protest about our dissatisfaction with the Government over certain matters.
Quote from: trileacman on September 16, 2012, 12:28:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on September 16, 2012, 02:04:51 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2012, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 15, 2012, 10:51:58 PM
There was a law up until 25 yrs ago that said tanks could only be 6 ft deep, but it was abolished. tanks now are usually between 10-15 ft deep.
You would stand no chance in that kind of depth. Terrible tragedy.
I could never understand this. To me it always seemed obvious to require the wire mesh used in concrete spaced every three or four feet so if someone did fall in at least they could stand up again. Then again I suppose it's the fumes that is probably the real danger.
How could you mix it then?
Get a mask on. It's an awful tragedy though for the family involved. RIP.
What a tragedy, supposedly it all happened trying to save a bloody dog.
May they rest in peace
The father in law said he was down at his pit yesterday and a mouse ran under his feet and keeled over within about 2 seconds from fumes.
Reportedly there was 4 foot of slurry in the pit in this tragic case
A very sad event. RIP.
Reports saying it was toxic gases, Hydrogen Sulphide and Sulphur Dioxide that were to blame.
The tragic thing is the at lethal concentrations, Hydrogen Sulphide disables the olfactory nerves so you can't smell it any don't realise the danger.
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 17, 2012, 09:26:21 AM
A very sad event. RIP.
Reports saying it was toxic gases, Hydrogen Sulphide and Sulphur Dioxide that were to blame.
The tragic thing is the at lethal concentrations, Hydrogen Sulphide disables the olfactory nerves so you can't smell it any don't realise the danger.
I'd have worked in and around farms and slurry pits etc from when i was 10 or so and when you look back at the things you did, it was pure madness, from hanging out the back of tractors with PTO shafts going full belt, on top of loads of bales skimming power lines on the way, buckraking silage on tractors with no roll bars and the likes.
Crazy stuff, but things have improved and the farmers I used to work around have had to improve things from covering over slurry pits when possible and the likes but farming by its nature will never being without danger, and knowledge is a bit part of that. My wee lad goes to a rural primary school and they get all sorts of leaflets, calendars etc from the HSE all the time.
Johneycool, was saying exactly the same thing yesterday. We got up to all sorts of stuff on our farm when we were young, and its only now that you realise just how dangerous it was and how dangerous a farm can be.
Lads, I just deleted a few posts there. Now is not the time for that sort of discussion/argument.
RIP to all who lost their lives in this tragedy.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on September 17, 2012, 01:05:22 PM
Lads, I just deleted a few posts there. Now is not the time for that sort of discussion/argument.
RIP to all who lost their lives in this tragedy.
Fair enough, It's your board. However, the title of the thread should be changed if it is now a sympathy thread and not a farming discussion.
I remember when the the ole man would be be buckraking the silage we would lie under the face and the silage would come down over the top of us. Around this time a few deaths happened with kids geetin trailers of silage tipped on them. That put an end to our messing about. Its sad to say but it takes something like this to happen for other people to take notice and do something about it.
Quote from: J70 on September 17, 2012, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on September 17, 2012, 01:05:22 PM
Lads, I just deleted a few posts there. Now is not the time for that sort of discussion/argument.
RIP to all who lost their lives in this tragedy.
Fair enough, It's your board. However, the title of the thread should be changed if it is now a sympathy thread and not a farming discussion.
No, it's fine to continue as a farming thread, I'm just saying we need to use our cop on and be a bit sensitive for a couple of days.
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on September 17, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 17, 2012, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Gaaboardmod3 on September 17, 2012, 01:05:22 PM
Lads, I just deleted a few posts there. Now is not the time for that sort of discussion/argument.
RIP to all who lost their lives in this tragedy.
Fair enough, It's your board. However, the title of the thread should be changed if it is now a sympathy thread and not a farming discussion.
No, it's fine to continue as a farming thread, I'm just saying we need to use our cop on and be a bit sensitive for a couple of days.
Good enough.
Every time I hear about a death involving a slurry tank, I remember back to when I was a bout 8 or 9 and was at a farm with my father in Eglish, about 10 mile from home. My father delivered animal feeds and while he was at the farm delivering the feed on a Saturday afternoon I played with a young lad around my age.
Anyhow, when my father had finished up, I said goodbye to the lad and we went straight home. We were only home 10 minutes and the phone rang. It was the lads father calling to ask had we seen his son. My father told him that we had been playing, and when he had left, the boy was still in the yard.
Anyhow, a few hours later news had come through that a child had been killed in a farming tragedy in Eglish. Fearing the worst, my father made a call and sure enough, it was the boy that I had been playing with. A manhole cover over the slurry tank was loose, and while walking over it, the lad went straight down into the tank. He didn't stand a chance.
The memory of that day is still etched in my head, and I can remember it well. My father was at the wake, and it turned out that we were the last people to see him alive that day. Needless to say, the family never got over it, and in some small way, I can understand what the Spence family are going through.
Slurry tanks are death traps, whether it is by falling into them and drowning, or by the gasses they emit.
May the men who died on Saturday rest in peace.
This might start a big push from the HSE for sensors like happened with CO detectos when those two young fellas died in Portrush. Would be a few hundred quid well spent.
The missus and I were chatting about this a couple of weekends ago when there was a death on the sand dunes.
Remember as a kid the 2 big warnings were the dunes and the slurry pits?
There would be a couple of deaths that would remind us all and scare the crap out of us, and then 5 years later the same would happen again, and another cycle of kids would learn. We were never allowed be at the slurry pit working alone, with the risk of the fumes, and the dunes were a no go area under any circumstances.
Sad that the cycle has gone around again...
slurry tanks are essential in modern irish farming, every farmer is completely aware of the gas problem. the thing is you just dont think its going to happen to you. not far from where i am 2 brothers died in a similar accident a few years ago. it just comes out of the blue. cattle have been killed in agricultural colleges during term time and right infront of students thats how freaky this is. i dont know if its pockets of gas under the crust of whether its laying on the bottom of the tank or its whatever the animals are being fed but it just happens so fast you dont have time to react. i had to pull a guy i used to work for out of a shed he just passed out as i was walking past. when he came round after a minute he said he didnt feel a thing the doors were open and a breeze was blowing through the shed it still got him. its possible to fit aerators that blow air through the slurry this reduces the smell and the chances of gas forming but they are expensive to fit and run. either way this is a tragic accident
Quote from: lawnseed on September 17, 2012, 09:11:43 PM
slurry tanks are essential in modern irish farming, every farmer is completely aware of the gas problem. the thing is you just dont think its going to happen to you. not far from where i am 2 brothers died in a similar accident a few years ago. it just comes out of the blue. cattle have been killed in agricultural colleges during term time and right infront of students thats how freaky this is. i dont know if its pockets of gas under the crust of whether its laying on the bottom of the tank or its whatever the animals are being fed but it just happens so fast you dont have time to react. i had to pull a guy i used to work for out of a shed he just passed out as i was walking past. when he came round after a minute he said he didnt feel a thing the doors were open and a breeze was blowing through the shed it still got him. its possible to fit aerators that blow air through the slurry this reduces the smell and the chances of gas forming but they are expensive to fit and run. either way this is a tragic accident
As J70 says if you can't prevent, you detect. A sensor clipped to the boiler suit would soon let you know the score before it is too late. As Denn says H2S can only be smelt at low concentrations after which you will smell nothing and it is too late.
In addition to olfactory fatigue, H2S is also heavier than air. Even if the shed is well ventilated, it can still accumulate within the pit. The only answer is to get people and animals out when disturbing slurry.
Someone mentioned a child being lost through a manhole. We had a relatively new setup, but in addition to the cover, we had a hinged grate underneath it which protected it when the cover was off. I'm assuming that's standard now?
We have the grating too, but im sure a lot of the older farms dont have these fitted.
I think there needs to be a fundamental review into the safety of the entire slurry operation with a view to tightening things up before there are more fatalities. Such a review should not be confined to the farm yard but should extend to the surrounding road network. I was driving between Tandragee and Armagh today, it was wet and the road was covered in muck from farmers exiting fields with tractors and slurry tankers. It was hugely dangerous, worse than hitting black ice as there was nothing to warn motorists of the impending danger.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 17, 2012, 05:21:40 PM
This might start a big push from the HSE for sensors like happened with CO detectos when those two young fellas died in Portrush. Would be a few hundred quid well spent.
Hmmm, IMO a wee oxygen tank and mask in the shed might be more effective.
If you have to go into the pit, then you put the mask on and turn on the oxygen. Forget about a sensor that can passively fail.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 18, 2012, 05:20:20 PM
I think there needs to be a fundamental review into the safety of the entire slurry operation with a view to tightening things up before there are more fatalities. Such a review should not be confined to the farm yard but should extend to the surrounding road network. I was driving between Tandragee and Armagh today, it was wet and the road was covered in muck from farmers exiting fields with tractors and slurry tankers. It was hugely dangerous, worse than hitting black ice as there was nothing to warn motorists of the impending danger.
So ye want the farmers to sweep the roads of muck every time they drive in and out of a field?
Catch yerself on and drop 10 mph off your speed.
http://www.countryfile.com/news/insurance-firms-highlight-dangers-muddy-roads
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 18, 2012, 06:26:28 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 18, 2012, 05:20:20 PM
I think there needs to be a fundamental review into the safety of the entire slurry operation with a view to tightening things up before there are more fatalities. Such a review should not be confined to the farm yard but should extend to the surrounding road network. I was driving between Tandragee and Armagh today, it was wet and the road was covered in muck from farmers exiting fields with tractors and slurry tankers. It was hugely dangerous, worse than hitting black ice as there was nothing to warn motorists of the impending danger.
So ye want the farmers to sweep the roads of muck every time they drive in and out of a field?
Catch yerself on and drop 10 mph off your speed.
When needed, yes. They're public roads. Myself and the auld boy used to do it when it was bad. The worst of it would always be over the first 50 yards anyway.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 18, 2012, 06:25:32 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 17, 2012, 05:21:40 PM
This might start a big push from the HSE for sensors like happened with CO detectos when those two young fellas died in Portrush. Would be a few hundred quid well spent.
Hmmm, IMO a wee oxygen tank and mask in the shed might be more effective.
If you have to go into the pit, then you put the mask on and turn on the oxygen. Forget about a sensor that can passively fail.
Granted the farmer would need to keep sensors calibrated as they would need to make sure their BA was in good nick also.
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2012, 07:10:21 PM
When needed, yes. They're public roads. Myself and the auld boy used to do it when it was bad. The worst of it would always be over the first 50 yards anyway.
Yez must have been running out of one or two fields all day or had loads of time on yer hands to be at that!
If your racing around in December trying to get animals fed and your dropping off bales in a number of different fields, stopping the cattle actually starving takes priority over a car maybe possibly having an accident due to muck on the road.
Obviously if your dragging what seems like half a field onto a road, and there is a risk of a clump actually dragging a car into a ditch, then yes, it needs cleaned, but not the wee clumps that fly off from between treads when getting up to speed. That is unreasonable IMO.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
Granted the farmer would need to keep sensors calibrated as they would need to make sure their BA was in good nick also.
Aye, well, my point is simple.
- your never sure if the sensor is working till its too late.
- you know instantly if the O2 bottle is working.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 18, 2012, 07:58:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 18, 2012, 07:10:21 PM
When needed, yes. They're public roads. Myself and the auld boy used to do it when it was bad. The worst of it would always be over the first 50 yards anyway.
Yez must have been running out of one or two fields all day or had loads of time on yer hands to be at that!
If your racing around in December trying to get animals fed and your dropping off bales in a number of different fields, stopping the cattle actually starving takes priority over a car maybe possibly having an accident due to muck on the road.
Obviously if your dragging what seems like half a field onto a road, and there is a risk of a clump actually dragging a car into a ditch, then yes, it needs cleaned, but not the wee clumps that fly off from between treads when getting up to speed. That is unreasonable IMO.
Your entitled to that opinion but having been on the wrong end of the man in the wig regarding the same thing your very wrong.
Quote from: oakleafgael on September 18, 2012, 09:57:46 PM
Your entitled to that opinion but having been on the wrong end of the man in the wig regarding the same thing your very wrong.
What'd the asshole* do and how bad was the road?
*I reserve that term for pretty much all involved in the legal system. ;D
Had the weekend tragedy involved a car accident, where a family of 3 died when the driver lost control of their car after hitting a stretch of dirty road, would you still express the same opinions?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 18, 2012, 08:00:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
Granted the farmer would need to keep sensors calibrated as they would need to make sure their BA was in good nick also.
Aye, well, my point is simple.
- your never sure if the sensor is working till its too late.
- you know instantly if the O2 bottle is working.
Cows will shite when and where they like, tractors and trailors will draw muck onto a road, that'll never change but farmers should just show a bit more respect for other road users and put a road brush over the bloody thing once in a while.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 18, 2012, 08:00:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
Granted the farmer would need to keep sensors calibrated as they would need to make sure their BA was in good nick also.
Aye, well, my point is simple.
- your never sure if the sensor is working till its too late.
- you know instantly if the O2 bottle is working.
Gas detectors can be tested against a known concentration and should be (as well as calibrated) on a regular basis. It doesn't take long either.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 18, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
Had the weekend tragedy involved a car accident, where a family of 3 died when the driver lost control of their car after hitting a stretch of dirty road, would you still express the same opinions?
Oh here we go with the doomsday projections.
Sure what if Bruce Willis had been driving the car and the very next week an asteroid came along and hit the earth killing everyone because he wasn't around to blow it up? ::)
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 08:57:55 AM
Cows will shite when and where they like, tractors and trailors will draw muck onto a road, that'll never change but farmers should just show a bit more respect for other road users and put a road brush over the bloody thing once in a while.
Once in a while?
You'd have to do it every time you came out of a field - otherwise there would be no point. Just ask Dougal Maguire - he'll tell ye that Bruce Willis and his 2 other family members would still die and the world would still be hit by that asteroid.
Quote from: J70 on September 19, 2012, 10:42:22 AM
Gas detectors can be tested against a known concentration and should be (as well as calibrated) on a regular basis. It doesn't take long either.
Indeed - I've been involved in gas tests before and know about the calibration efforts needed.
But, then you need a fresh bottle with known concentrations of your target gases, and to test every 6 months (or whatever manufacturers recommended calibration intervals are). How many farmers do you think are realistically going to keep up with their calibrations?
The simpler and failsafe option IMO would be the O2:N2 bottle. Its pressurized so can only leak out. When you turn it on, you either get exactly what it says on the tin, or nothing comes out - either way, you know there and then that its working or it isn't. No calibration needed.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 19, 2012, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 08:57:55 AM
Cows will shite when and where they like, tractors and trailors will draw muck onto a road, that'll never change but farmers should just show a bit more respect for other road users and put a road brush over the bloody thing once in a while.
Once in a while?
You'd have to do it every time you came out of a field - otherwise there would be no point. Just ask Dougal Maguire - he'll tell ye that Bruce Willis and his 2 other family members would still die and the world would still be hit by that asteroid.
At least do it when you're finished going in and out of whatever field, and a few signs warning of a slippery road would make sense as well.
If you're going to complain about shit on the roads go and live in the town and don't be out those roads.
Quote from: The Iceman on September 19, 2012, 02:16:28 PM
If you're going to complain about shit on the roads go and live in the town and don't be out those roads.
Why? I live in the country and fairly accepting of what comes with that. I pay road tax unlike a lot of the tractors who make a mess of the roads, I just want them to make an effort to keep the roads reasonable, I'm not asking for nappies to be put on cows, but some farmers just don't give a shit about the state they leave the roads in.
I pay road tax on my tractor unlike a lot of people in cars! Doesn't make my opinion any more or less worthwhile
Maybe if people driving used a bit of common sense, like maybe "oh there's a whole pile of shite on the road, maybe I should slow down for the 20 yards" it would be safer.
Similar to thinking "oh there's a tractor with 5 cars behind it, I wont try and overtake all 6 on a bend" or "there's a tractor I maybe I don't need a mile of clear road to overtake it".
Like I say, a bit of common sense goes a long way
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 19, 2012, 03:20:59 PM
I pay road tax on my tractor unlike a lot of people in cars! Doesn't make my opinion any more or less worthwhile
Maybe if people driving used a bit of common sense, like maybe "oh there's a whole pile of shite on the road, maybe I should slow down for the 20 yards" it would be safer.
Similar to thinking "oh there's a tractor with 5 cars behind it, I wont try and overtake all 6 on a bend" or "there's a tractor I maybe I don't need a mile of clear road to overtake it".
Like I say, a bit of common sense goes a long way
Or maybe,
I'll be spreading slurry today, I'll put out some road signs warning people the road might be slippery rather than let them happen upon it and put the road brush over it before night.
Oh, there's a stream of cars behind me, I'll pull in and let them pass. (some tractor drivers do, some don't)
Yes common sense does go a long way
Most farmers I know would put up signs when there's heavy or constant traffic for the day, how often would u say people take heed of them?
Same goes for pulling in, I generally have a rule of once a mile, where possible, or if there's 3/4 cars behind me I'll leave it figuring on the next straight they'll get by, like I say common sense but it's never enough for some f**kers. I do laugh at them passing and blowing the horn like mad or giving the finger, your blood pressure not mine, I try to wave back or at least acknowledge it with a toot of the horn (provided its working)
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 11:16:52 AM
At least do it when you're finished going in and out of whatever field, and a few signs warning of a slippery road would make sense as well.
Aye, sure.
Every day at every field I drop off a bale in during the winter I'm gonna put out a wee roadsign when I go in and break out the brush and sweep the road after I've driven 50 yrds down the road to get the muck off the tyres... then pick up the roadsign and be on my merry way to do the same the next time.
Catch yerself on.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 19, 2012, 03:41:11 PM
Most farmers I know would put up signs when there's heavy or constant traffic for the day, how often would u say people take heed of them?
Especially if the field exits onto or near corners. It'd be madness not to.
Quote from: Jonah on September 19, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
Tractor drivers,lorry drivers and mothers bringing their kids to and from school are the biggest nuisance on the road.
Ye left the peelers off that.
They are easily the biggest nuisance on the roads! ;D
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 19, 2012, 03:48:49 PM
Quote from: Jonah on September 19, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
Tractor drivers,lorry drivers and mothers bringing their kids to and from school are the biggest nuisance on the road.
Ye left the peelers off that.
They are easily the biggest nuisance on the roads! ;D
Oh and I forgot to mention learner drivers. I know we all had to learn to drive at one stage but if you cut your engine out 12 times in a row at a roundabout or traffic lights I am going to blow you off the road.
I don't mind tractors and farmers really,I know they have to do their work.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 19, 2012, 03:45:38 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 11:16:52 AM
At least do it when you're finished going in and out of whatever field, and a few signs warning of a slippery road would make sense as well.
Aye, sure.
Every day at every field I drop off a bale in during the winter I'm gonna put out a wee roadsign when I go in and break out the brush and sweep the road after I've driven 50 yrds down the road to get the muck off the tyres... then pick up the roadsign and be on my merry way to do the same the next time.
Catch yerself on.
Once in and out of a field a day isn't the issue, its the 20/30 times a day drawing silage or spreading slurry is the issue and leaving huge clumps of shite/mud strewn down the road for a 100 yards especially if a nice skiff of rain hits it.
Sure slow down. If you see a pile of manure or muck or whatever on the road, and it's that prevalent, just take the foot off a bit. It only lasts about 50 yards or so.
Annoys me when lads drawing slurrey tanks or balers or whatever don't pull in to allow people to pass, but in fairness, it's only going to add 10 minutes to your journey so chill out I suppose. It's the ignorance that gets me sometimes.
As the fella said, 'There's ignorance in them lads they'll never use'.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 19, 2012, 04:02:43 PM
Sure slow down. If you see a pile of manure or muck or whatever on the road, and it's that prevalent, just take the foot off a bit. It only lasts about 50 yards or so.
Annoys me when lads drawing slurrey tanks or balers or whatever don't pull in to allow people to pass, but in fairness, it's only going to add 10 minutes to your journey so chill out I suppose. It's the ignorance that gets me sometimes.
As the fella said, 'There's ignorance in them lads they'll never use'.
if you see it then yes no bother, come round a corner into it and its not easy to get the weigh off a car when driving through shite.
True for you, but then again a sign wouldn't be great in that situation either, unless it was 100 yards up the road.
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 03:55:26 PM
Once in and out of a field a day isn't the issue, its the 20/30 times a day drawing silage or spreading slurry is the issue and leaving huge clumps of shite/mud strewn down the road for a 100 yards especially if a nice skiff of rain hits it.
When its after a corner - many do already put out a sign!
[More to stop a car coming flying into the side of the machine when it exits the field than to warn about the road - but it'll fill the same function]
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 19, 2012, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 03:55:26 PM
Once in and out of a field a day isn't the issue, its the 20/30 times a day drawing silage or spreading slurry is the issue and leaving huge clumps of shite/mud strewn down the road for a 100 yards especially if a nice skiff of rain hits it.
When its after a corner - many do already put out a sign!
[More to stop a car coming flying into the side of the machine when it exits the field than to warn about the road - but it'll fill the same function]
Is that not the job of the 80 gallon acid drums, in blue or green?
Some fantastic stuff on this thread now. Makes me realise why everyone should love farmers. Their caring attitude towards the countryside, their courteous attitude towards the rest of the society and their concern that their actions won't impact adversely on their fellow man is to be commended. You'd never hear those guys come out with anything that could remotely suggest a 'world owes me a living' mentality.
http://tyronetribulations.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/i-landed-on-moon-first-claims-stewartstown-farmer/
"I Landed On Moon First", claims Stewartstown Farmer
A Stewartstown pig-farmer has stunned the astronomical world by claiming that he was the first man to set foot on the moon and not the recently deceased Neil Armstrong. Mr Felix Philpot, originally from Coagh, went even further and cast doubts as to whether the Americans were on it at all. Philpot, who rents pigs to poor homeowners who can't afford to own a normal pet like a cat, made the startling claim in Maguire's butchers in the middle of the town.
"All this talk about Apollo this and Buzz Adrin that has sickened me to the balls. I made it to the moon in 1967 before the Yanks or Russians could consider it. Myself and the brother Tomas were messing around in the shed with the lawn mower when the thought hit me. Why not point the mower upwards, build an aluminium cage around it, get a few of those experimental jet-propelled rockets I'd bought the previous year from China and see how far she goes."
Philpot claims he made 'a dozen spud dinners and wrapped them in tinfoil, 5 or 6 packets of Rich Tea, a gallon of tea in flasks, a toilet roll and the paper' before setting off on his journey alone as Tomas watched from below.
"It was a bit of a handlin at the start with the radiation belt almost blinding me 25'000 miles up but once she settled and the oil was massaging the engine, it was shoe to the burd til I landed on the moon that night. I kept er lit as they say"
Felix described the moon as a 'lonely, desolate and scary' place but recalls seeing some wildlife on it, casting doubt on Armstrong's claims.
"There's no way Neil could have missed the serious amount of Corncrakes flying about. The ground was sandy, not powdery as he said. I'd wonder where they there at all."
Tomas, when contacted, cast doubts on Felix's achievement.
"Will ye wise the head for feck sake. He went up about 100 feet and landed in the big sandpit at Tullyhogue. Our boy's a total head-case. A nut-job. Just ask about".
Philpot claims he left a reminder up there for future generations to recognise his achievement. "I was dying to go to the toilet and the lunar module was half a mile away, so I let rip in the middle of the Sea of Tranquility. The boyo is still probably sitting there." The mystery remains.
Olly would be proud of that!
Quote from: johnneycool on September 19, 2012, 04:47:41 PM
Is that not the job of the 80 gallon acid drums, in blue or green?
Is that not you suitably informed as to agricultural vehicles entering/exiting fields and as to the likelihood of deteriorating road conditions immediately ahead?
Or does the farmer need to break out the crayons and explain it in big colourful letters so those a bit slow of brain don't need to make the connection? [I'd argue if said dimwits crashed after passing the warning, the farmer has done the gene pool a favour]
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 19, 2012, 06:16:48 PM
Some fantastic stuff on this thread now. Makes me realise why everyone should love farmers. Their caring attitude towards the countryside, their courteous attitude towards the rest of the society and their concern that their actions won't impact adversely on their fellow man is to be commended. You'd never hear those guys come out with anything that could remotely suggest a 'world owes me a living' mentality.
Should you not be away hand wringing over the next impending disaster and screaming (not too loudly though, incase ye'd hurt yer delicate wee voice box or someone else's little sensitive ear drums) about how its all a blatant disregard for health and safety?
(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/nechronical/oct2009/6/2/image-1-for-gallery-viz-comic-celebrates-30th-birthday-214754786.jpg)
We were building a tank the day,couldnt help but think of them 3 poor souls who died last week,this tank were at is 14 foot deep,16 foot wide and 35foot wide,you wouldnt stand a chance if you fell in 2 it
Quote from: Family guy on September 20, 2012, 07:56:52 PM
We were building a tank the day,couldnt help but think of them 3 poor souls who died last week,this tank were at is 14 foot deep,16 foot wide and 35foot wide,you wouldnt stand a chance if you fell in 2 it
you mean you pouring the tank, surely your not trying to build a tank 14ft deep. tell us your shuttering...
Is the modern spec any better? outside mixing, that type of thing.
Quote from: Sportacus on September 20, 2012, 10:04:16 PM
Is the modern spec any better? outside mixing, that type of thing.
Not really, a hole is a hole.
Not that I am any way up on slurry pits/tanks, etc. but is there ever any legitimate reason why someone would have to enter a slurry pit after it has been built and if not could they not incorporate ventilation that is safer than a hole in the ground?
If there has to be any entrance into the pit could it not be covered with an iron grid to prevent any accidental access by man, dog, etc.
It seems awfully dangerous and silly to have an open hole that if someone fell or climbed into there's a good chance they won't come out of it. If an environment like this existed in any other place of work health and safety would have a field day, although I appreciate that farmers probably need to strike a balance between what is practical and what is totally safe but it is life and death at the end of the day...
Quote from: screenmachine on September 21, 2012, 12:54:33 PM
Not that I am any way up on slurry pits/tanks, etc. but is there ever any legitimate reason why someone would have to enter a slurry pit after it has been built and if not could they not incorporate ventilation that is safer than a hole in the ground?
If there has to be any entrance into the pit could it not be covered with an iron grid to prevent any accidental access by man, dog, etc.
It seems awfully dangerous and silly to have an open hole that if someone fell or climbed into there's a good chance they won't come out of it. If an environment like this existed in any other place of work health and safety would have a field day, although I appreciate that farmers probably need to strike a balance between what is practical and what is totally safe but it is life and death at the end of the day...
theres a bit of a quandry concerning slatted tanks. there is a type of slat you can buy for mixing the tank. slat makers called them safety slats but farmers call them mixing slats. this contradiction of terms will give you an insight into the mindset of those involved in farming an its ancillary industries
Spring has sprung as they say.
I saw my first silage being cut last Thursday. Anyone seen any grass being cut earlier than that ?
Quote from: orangeman on May 06, 2014, 12:09:07 AM
Spring has sprung as they say.
I saw my first silage being cut last Thursday. Anyone seen any grass being cut earlier than that ?
silage!! at this time of the year, our donkey's are still eating the rushes among the bushes ffs. :o
Framing really is getting more intensive. Any man cutting silage at this time needs to be dragged out of the tractor and bate with the PTO shaft.
In parts of Antrim and down I've seen a few milk farmer operating zero grazing systems so are cutting with silage wagons all year round
On another note the end of milk quotas next year means a lot of people are considering going into milking and those at it already will be producing more
Quote from: giveherlong on May 06, 2014, 03:22:45 PM
In parts of Antrim and down I've seen a few milk farmer operating zero grazing systems so are cutting with silage wagons all year round
On another note the end of milk quotas next year means a lot of people are considering going into milking and those at it already will be producing more
Has the price per litre gone up?
I've been doing a lot of work on Robotic farms the past few months.
They are some job,amazing how they can train the cow to come in to be milked on their own accord.
The Robot itself is a fine piece of machinery. Very expensive to get installed but all the farmers I've spoken too swear by them now.
Milk is as good a price as it has been for a number of years. Supply and demand in next few years could push it down.
Lamb is good price at present
Beef is back a bit
Quote from: giveherlong on May 06, 2014, 03:48:12 PM
Milk is as good a price as it has been for a number of years. Supply and demand in next few years could push it down.
Lamb is good price at present
Beef is back a bit
cows with calves at foot aren't back a bit.
Quote from: giveherlong on May 06, 2014, 03:48:12 PM
Milk is as good a price as it has been for a number of years. Supply and demand in next few years could push it down.
Lamb is good price at present
Beef is back a bit
Friesian bull calves are back a lot. >:(
Agree with milk, but once the quotas go, the big farmers will be able to alleviate the drop in price by producing more.
the price of store cattle to graze or put into the house to finish are crazy compared to the price of beef. whatever men are thinking buying stores at well over 2 pound/kilo or nearer the 2.5 euro/kilo mark for strong stores in the south i do not know! takes a right beast to come into 1200 in the north or 1500 in the south. future isnt looking good for the beef in this country with all these new rules coming into place either. being cut for cattle under weight, over weight, over 30 months, over 36 months and more the 4 moves! and no use for the south beast in the north. v hard to work at the min
its crazy downtown and it will be worse as I fear a lot of men will be after cattle so as to keep the SFP.
Quote from: Hereiam on May 06, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
its crazy downtown and it will be worse as I fear a lot of men will be after cattle so as to keep the SFP.
How does this help them keeping the Single Farm Payment?
Quote from: offtheground on May 07, 2014, 12:20:27 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 06, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
its crazy downtown and it will be worse as I fear a lot of men will be after cattle so as to keep the SFP.
How does this help them keeping the Single Farm Payment?
You must be an active farmer to claim payment, you must have stock, in the past you only needed land.
SFP question from work colleague. He was left family farm but has never kept any stock, the farm has always been rented out. He is going to continue renting it out for next few years. He gets a small single farm payment at present. What should he do and is there a deadline for selling these entitlements he has, they wouldn't be worth much as the farm hasn't been stocked in past 20years
Quote from: giveherlong on May 07, 2014, 12:40:47 PM
SFP question from work colleague. He was left family farm but has never kept any stock, the farm has always been rented out. He is going to continue renting it out for next few years. He gets a small single farm payment at present. What should he do and is there a deadline for selling these entitlements he has, they wouldn't be worth much as the farm hasn't been stocked in past 20years
Tell him to have a read through here - http://www.dardni.gov.uk/q-and-a-active-farmer-2.pdf
Quote from: trileacman on May 07, 2014, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: offtheground on May 07, 2014, 12:20:27 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 06, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
its crazy downtown and it will be worse as I fear a lot of men will be after cattle so as to keep the SFP.
How does this help them keeping the Single Farm Payment?
You must be an active farmer to claim payment, you must have stock, in the past you only needed land.
Q 13. What is the new definition of an 'Active Farmer'?
A. There is a provision in EU legislation adopted by the EU Commission on 11
March 2014 which states that "in line with the case law of the Court of Justice
of the European Union, payment entitlements should be allocated to the
person enjoying decision making power, benefits and financial risks in relation
to the agricultural activity on the land for which such allocation is requested."
This provision has particular relevance for land let under conacre
arrangements. In general terms, this means that in 2015, when all existing
SFP entitlements are abolished and new entitlements established, then
landowners renting out land in conacre will not be able to establish
entitlements on that land. The principle being that where land is let, then the
farmer actively farming the land will be the one claiming direct payments on
that land.
In brief, it will generally be the case that if a landowner receives a rent for
his/her land, the conacre tenant will obtain the benefit from the agricultural
activity undertaken on that land. Therefore, the tenant should establish
entitlements and claim payments in 2015.
The EU legislation (Delegated Act) will be confirmed in May 2014. The way i read that says you just need to be the one responsible for the land, whether that be keeping it in good state, growing grass on it etc. Not necessarily with stock...? No?
Dard being dard have not stated clearly what an active is. That is the problem.
Maybe the right place maybe not....but has anyone ever heard of the Limousin thread on AFR? ;D ;D
Quote from: 5 Sams on May 07, 2014, 10:22:59 PM
Maybe the right place maybe not....but has anyone ever heard of the Limousin thread on AFR? ;D ;D
Some great reading in that alright. Did they not have to remove it because of some Limousin breeders association complaining about it?
Another death today at the slurry tank. 10 year old lad from Dunloy. Tragic again. RIP.
not too far down the road, know little of what happened yet but accidents round slurry tanks / pits, remember playing round them sometimes at a aunties house, children should be keep away from these death traps at all times. maybe somebody with a farming background can tell us why slurry pits are so dangerous at certain times of year, are gases released all the time or only in certain conditions.
Apparently wasn't a fall into a pit - by all accounts they were mixing slurry and were poisoned by the fumes. Very sad for the family and the father especially if he pulls through.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2014, 08:51:06 PM
not too far down the road, know little of what happened yet but accidents round slurry tanks / pits, remember playing round them sometimes at a aunties house, children should be keep away from these death traps at all times. maybe somebody with a farming background can tell us why slurry pits are so dangerous at certain times of year, are gases released all the time or only in certain conditions.
Gases are released only when the top crust is broken and the slurry is whisked in preparation for going in the tanker.
Very sad. Farms are dangerous places for children. RIP.
Before slurry can be spread, it has to be agitated, or stirred up to make it easier to spread. It is at that stage it can be lethally dangerous as odourless gases can be released. It's advised to do it on a breezy/windy day to disperse gases. Stock should ideally be let out of the shed before starting this process, as these gases can be lethal to man and beast...The other danger with slurry is, of course, if someone falls into an open slurry tank or pit.
Quote from: Shrewdness on June 07, 2014, 09:34:24 PM
Before slurry can be spread, it has to be agitated, or stirred up to make it easier to spread. It is at that stage it can be lethally dangerous as odourless gases can be released. It's advised to do it on a breezy/windy day to disperse gases. Stock should ideally be let out of the shed before starting this process, as these gases can be lethal to man and beast...The other danger with slurry is, of course, if someone falls into an open slurry tank or pit.
There can't be a farmer in the country that doesn't know this yet there are deaths every year. Seems very unnecessary.
Spot on Tony, and the biggest tragedy is when it involves children. It's an operation where no child should be anywhere near it.
After the Spence tragedy, I thought there was going to be alarms fitted and protocols brought in to sort this ?.
So many kids killed on farms every year. They are dangerous places of work and kids should be watched at all times. Terrible tragedy in Dunloy, RIP to the little man.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 07, 2014, 10:07:22 PM
So many kids killed on farms every year. They are dangerous places of work and kids should be watched at all times. Terrible tragedy in Dunloy, RIP to the little man.
Agreed, the problem here isn't just slurry danger but the problem of children on farms. They're not playgrounds. We used to have a primary school teacher who'd berate us for running round/working on farms and we'd laugh at him for being over-protective. Turns out he was right enough.
Came upon the scene yesterday with all the emergency services there. A terrible terrible tradegy. Won't forget the haunted faces of the relatives/friends that were standing there for a day or two.
Our emergency services see it on a regular basis. They deserve immense credit
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 07, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
Apparently wasn't a fall into a pit - by all accounts they were mixing slurry and were poisoned by the fumes. Very sad for the family and the father especially if he pulls through.
How many more of these deaths have to happen before people learn to take the necessary steps? Tragic. :'(
It has to be the must unnecessary cause of death at a farm, farmers know the dangers, HSE know the dangers and what is fecking done to eliminate this? Feck all.
Breathing apparatus must be essential when working with odourless dangerous gases, there isn't a factory/plant or any other form of industry that works with these types of gases that doesn't comply with regulations set by LAW!! If they don't they are closed down and any accidents caused by bad practice or not adhering to the regulations can end in prosecution, insurance premiums are raised which would make it tougher on running farms.
Thoughts are with the family in the stuff time and I hope the father pulls through but It's about time farmers wised up da feck
i know machinery is much more advanced now does this have a part to play in this gas being realised ie is the agitating much more vigorous now.
I grew up in the 80's in the countryside and spent a lot of time on my uncle and neighbours farms we were always warned of the dangers of slurry tanks but only falling into them not once did I ever remember hearing of the dangers of gas or people dying from it. Maybe it did happen but was unaware of it. obviously it was there but maybe more powerful machines are doing this now causing a quicker release of the gas
Quote from: snoopdog on June 08, 2014, 08:36:38 PM
i know machinery is much more advanced now does this have a part to play in this gas being realised ie is the agitating much more vigorous now.
I grew up in the 80's in the countryside and spent a lot of time on my uncle and neighbours farms we were always warned of the dangers of slurry tanks but only falling into them not once did I ever remember hearing of the dangers of gas or people dying from it. Maybe it did happen but was unaware of it. obviously it was there but maybe more powerful machines are doing this now causing a quicker release of the gas
Perhaps. We agitated slurry from the early 90s and it was something we were very aware of. Sheds were totally closed off to animals and all.
Unfortunately complaciancy causes a lot of deaths on farms these days. Every farmer knows you shouldn't enter a shed while mixing the slurry yet farmers do.its sad but can be stopped
Quote from: Farmer dam on June 08, 2014, 10:12:10 PM
Unfortunately complacency causes a lot of deaths on farms these days. Every farmer knows you shouldn't enter a shed while mixing the slurry yet farmers do.its sad but can be stopped
Complacency, the biggest cause of accidents in any industry. But what has ever come out of the HSE investigations? People need to comply with the regulations, the cost of a gas indicator and breathing apparatus is pittance when the chance of death is possible.
Quote from: Farmer dam on June 08, 2014, 10:12:10 PM
Unfortunately complaciancy causes a lot of deaths on farms these days. Every farmer knows you shouldn't enter a shed while mixing the slurry yet farmers do.its sad but can be stopped
It's a bit like the fishermen on Lough Neagh fishing. There are plenty who still don't wear life jackets which is crazy.
Honest question, was there ever a final report into the Nevin Spence & family tragedy?
Quote from: muppet on June 09, 2014, 01:05:47 AM
Honest question, was there ever a final report into the Nevin Spence & family tragedy?
I'll ask our HSE Manager when he comes back from lunch. I just passed him the canteen eating from a multi-pack of Twix! "Health" he says!
Yet another victim of slurry fumes last night near Bantry in Cork. Another terrible tragedy.
Doesn't The Farmers' Journal and other such dedicated papers highlight these dangers? How can people not be aware anymore?
They are fully aware. However some of us can be a stubborn bunch when it comes to health and safety and believe it won't happen to me. Like texting at 70 mph.
Another poor farmer died in Pomeroy.
Hit by a tractor. Sad hanling.
Contractor was putting in silage near us late night, using 4 130hp New Holland tractors with all young lads driving them. Our road is a narrow busy country road and here these young lads driving this heavy expensive equipment going flat out with the phone in one hand texting or whatever the hell they were doing. If I were the owner of a silage outfit I would telling them to leave the dam phones at home.
Another farmer this morning killed on a tractor going to the mart apparently in Dungannon.
Farming in crisis. Grain farmers losing money. beef farmers losing money, pig producers uncertainancy with russian ban. Theres a definate risk to dairy farming as quotas come to an end next year and theres huge increases in production levels all ready to go.
Its beef producers who are really getting shafted ever since the horsemeat scandal supermarkets and meat processers have been plotting and scheming to source cheap meat somewhere and now theyve managed it. By introducing specs that take time to adjust to it gives them the chance to steal beef from guys who simply dont have any other outlets for their finished product. Theres the livestock marketing commission a body set up to.. Well its actually difficult to say what they do but its worth mentioning that the entire board except for two members work in meat factories..
For the last few years farmers opted to rear bulls they grow faster and have better conformation so they would have been more profitable. Out of the blue meat factories announced they no longer "wanted" bulls over 16 mths old. Most producers would have been planning to finish thier bulls at 18 to 24 months. Bulls all ready in these systems simply cud not meet the new specs so the factories cut the price and said it was "out of spec" this cheaper "stolen" beef effectivly became the "new horse". Cheap beef they could mince or do what ever they wanted with one establishment actually put a meat stall out on the road to flog "out of spec meat" as if they were doing the public a good turn, in fact its an attack on small butchers shops. Recent developments may include a further reduction in the 16mth age limit artificially creating more 'out of spec animals'. at short notice no farmer can get cattle ready. Breeding bulls have effectivly become horses they at the end of their career are completely 'out of spec' since the carcase will deffo be over weight and the bull will be over 16mths. A farmer would be lucky to get anything for them. Its more likely the one of the factories minnions hanging around the marts will buy these bulls for feck all and get 20quid commission for bringing the animal to slaughter. Try asking for some of the cheap meat next time your in the butchery dept or the butchers it doesnt exist. Meat in uk supermarkets has risen 7% this year prices paid to farmers for 'in spec' beef has fallen 25% never mind 'out of spec'.
The latest plan of attack is the residency rule. This states the animals who have changed hands/addresses more than four times are out of spec and subject to a 150 quid penalty so you rear it for nothing. The two main supermarkets pushing this rule are tesco and sainsburys suprisingly asda dont care how many farmers have owned the animal as long as its on quality assured farms. This rule is presented as persuent to better animal welfare but doesnt take into account that the animal could change hands from father to son with different herd numbers but never even move out of the foeld they are being kept in, or that a farmer could have land in crossmaglen and land in derry and can haul them up and down the road as much as he likes.
Im hoping given the importance of farming in this country as a source of employment and a way of life that people will take an interest in whats happening and see the injustice of the system as is and try to avoid buying meat from tesco or sainsburys or better still give them a complete miss. Go to your local butcher. Every little helps
Well put lawnseed. The supermarkets have too much power. I for one wouldnt buy meat of them.
Quote from: Hereiam on August 23, 2014, 08:37:36 PM
Well put lawnseed. The supermarkets have too much power. I for one wouldnt buy meat of them.
Every time £7 changes hands in the uk a poundof it spent in tesco. Not ringing them for your shopping wont break them but if only a few people take a stand they are so paranoid about market image they dont like it. Maybe they'll stop trying put small irish farmers mostly part-time on the side of the road
Have the farmers, at least in terms of yield, ever had it so good due to the exceptional weather this year ?. Apples, spuds etc seem to have produced bumper crops. Maybe the prices for these will fall due to a huge crop but hopefully not.
Quote from: orangeman on October 12, 2014, 10:33:19 AM
Have the farmers, at least in terms of yield, ever had it so good due to the exceptional weather this year ?. Apples, spuds etc seem to have produced bumper crops. Maybe the prices for these will fall due to a huge crop but hopefully not.
It'll hardly stop them complaining.
Anyone under 40 doing this level 2 in agriculture? Supposed to be 'beneficial' to your single farm payment down the Line
I got a text from cafre to say my application was accepted, it's only financially beneficial if you are head off holding. If you were to be a head of holding down the line then its handy to have done. Heard of ppl signing farms on to younger generations to get larger sfp etc, only to get drawn into a inheritance tax handling?
Quote from: sensethetone on October 12, 2014, 10:54:17 AM
I got a text from cafre to say my application was accepted, it's only financially beneficial if you are head off holding. If you were to be a head of holding down the line then its handy to have done. Heard of ppl signing farms on to younger generations to get larger sfp etc, only to get drawn into a inheritance tax handling?
Be careful. You can't be paying tax if it can be avoided.
Looking some advice here on the Countryside Management scheme
My Dad has been in the scheme for 8 years but has been sick for the last few months so the land is let out. He has received his summary letter to submit the claim but is not planning on claiming the grant as he has not been able to check for himself if he has met all the requirements. He is old school and too honest! ;)
The claim is for a couple of grand and to me it looks like the land is in good shape but I dont know enough about the scheme to know if he is compliant. The last thing I want is for him to get in bother for a non compliant claim but he could do with the money.
What I want to know is how onerous are the requirements and how much checking do the department do. Would I have to meet them on the farm etc?
I am going through the document at the minute but it is hard work so any advice/experience people on here have had would be appreciated .
Cheers
quear job for the silage.
(http://photos2.donedeal.ie/tractors/massey-ferguson-135-turbo-extreme/View2/34258153.jpeg)
84" F50 Alloys.
MF red.
Pointlessly loud exhaust.
Real head turner. (Because its cool)
Family forces sale.
Tinted cab.
BMW M3 front weights
Dump valve top link.
Lowered to the balls for good land only.
Pulls 7 bales a 2.0psi boost.
Upgraded PTO
Side engine covers in an attempt to keep in the beastly power.
13 overdrive switches.
0 - 25kph in -10 seconds. Good for getting out in front of the cattle.
Welded diff
No dreamers or townies.
No offers (unless they work out better for me)
Would consider swapping for MF390
Price: € 50,500 (EUR)
Approx. Price: in GBP: £ 39,570
(With exchange rate 0.783631)
http://www.donedeal.co.uk/tractors-for-sale/massey-ferguson-135-turbo-extreme/7920638 (http://www.donedeal.co.uk/tractors-for-sale/massey-ferguson-135-turbo-extreme/7920638)
Quote from: sensethetone on October 12, 2014, 10:54:17 AM
I got a text from cafre to say my application was accepted, it's only financially beneficial if you are head off holding. If you were to be a head of holding down the line then its handy to have done. Heard of ppl signing farms on to younger generations to get larger sfp etc, only to get drawn into a inheritance tax handling?
What was the handling? If it was a normal case would agricultural property relief not just be claimed and no tax payable?
Just reading some of the reports on the beef meeting in the kings hall last week. The guy from tescos began his speech with the statement that beef was losing popularity with shoppers who were favouring chicken and pork. So it follows that in order to compete the price of beef should come down.. It has! But only at the farmgate tesco increased the price of beef in 2014 by 7% in their stores. Every little helps. Or as shoppers are discovering every lidl helps
Farmers getting the silage equipment ready. Not be long now. ;)
Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.
Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.
Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.
I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.
Quote from: moysider on April 19, 2015, 12:24:12 AM
Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.
Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.
Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.
I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.
Could you not just have asked her to pull it?
Quote from: trileacman on April 19, 2015, 12:48:12 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 19, 2015, 12:24:12 AM
Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.
Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.
Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.
I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.
Could you not just have asked her to pull it?
No. Absolutely not. She d have walked away - and in hindsight that might not have been a bad thing.
When you call a vet out they are the pros and they decide.
Quote from: moysider on April 19, 2015, 01:18:12 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 19, 2015, 12:48:12 AM
Quote from: moysider on April 19, 2015, 12:24:12 AM
Anybody else every come across a vet that is too fond of the knife?
I spent a few hours last night assisting with what I thought was an unnecessary section - and as a result a fine young cow is going to end up as burgers. I called a practice that our farm has been using since the 60s. I d a calf presented upside down. I handled the cow and calf did not seem to be that big. I had no sterile ropes and even though the calf was strong I wasn t confident of doing the job. Vet arrived and turned the calf no problem.
Because of the presentation of the calf the mother had no chance to dilate - didnt present first water-bag - and the vet set straight into a section, after a few strains by hand on the leg ropes. I had raised eyebrows at the time but trusted her professionalism.
Made a big deal after about getting a live calf and tryied to big up its size - it was average size for a male calf of its breed. Not worried about the expense but annoyed a fine quiet 3rd calf cow was butchered unnecessarily.
We had 4 call outs for calving this year. This individual did 3 sections. I had doubts about 1 of first 2 but last night's was plain silly. The fourth call out happened when I was away. A pedigree cow calving big. I was away and brother decided not to take any chances. A different vet - senior partner in the practice - jacked the biggest calf of the year, and mother and calf were fine. Bro reckons the other one would have cut up that cow too. And another pure bred cow that we took a big calf from 2 days ago. A pull but it was ok. If we had gone shy and asked for a vet that cow would be in stitches as well now imo.
Now before people give me grief about this ... i think my judgement isn t bad. I ve never half pulled a calf and then called a vet to have it taken out in bits. Only once when I thought it should be a section the vet differed. That ended up with a calf with a dead leg that had to be put down. Funnily enough I respected that vet's decision more than cutting up a cow unnecessarily.
I m at the stage now where I m afraid to ring this practice. The young vet is afraid of losing a calf but this was ridiculous.
Could you not just have asked her to pull it?
No. Absolutely not. She d have walked away - and in hindsight that might not have been a bad thing.
When you call a vet out they are the pros and they decide.
If you're gonna concede that they're the pros, they decide and they're in charge then what are you complaining about? What your explaining to me is that you were unable to calve the cow yourself, called the vet and she delivered you a live calf and cow and your still pissed. What your saying is "I didn't have the knowledge to calve the cow meself but the person who I called to calve the cow and managed it is wrong and I know better than them".
This presentation is rare enough, maybe one in 500 births and its several years since I came across last one and I concede I erred on the side of caution and called vets for insurance. If you go to dentist with a small cavity you don't expect to end up with an extraction or end up with an amputation if you break your leg.
Once the calf was righted it could have been a straight forward pull and I m sure that is what the other vets in the practice would have done.
Anyway I ll know better next time.
Bollix trileac, yes he called a professional but it sounds like she's too fond of going for the knife, esp in the light of the incident when another vet attended. If you're paying for a service, you have a right to question the quality of it.
I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 19, 2015, 12:10:05 PM
I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.
So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?
Quote from: moysider on April 19, 2015, 11:56:29 AM
This presentation is rare enough, maybe one in 500 births and its several years since I came across last one and I concede I erred on the side of caution and called vets for insurance. If you go to dentist with a small cavity you don't expect to end up with an extraction or end up with an amputation if you break your leg.
Once the calf was righted it could have been a straight forward pull and I m sure that is what the other vets in the practice would have done.
Anyway I ll know better next time.
That's not a comparable analogy. A comparable analogy is taking your wife to the hospital and they decide to preform a section but despite their experience and training you think it's needless butchery.
Quote from: trileacman on April 19, 2015, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 19, 2015, 12:10:05 PM
I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.
So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?
I was on my own at the time (bro at a wedding and maybe because it was his cow I was more inclined to get help because I didn t want anything to go wrong), and this presentation is impossible for one person to do. One person needs to keep traction on a foot rope while the other twists the calf over with the other leg. That s in a standing cow. If the animal is down its a different story. My location is not full of people who could help and my wife and kids are no farmers. At 11 o clock at night calling the vet seemed the sensible thing to do because I could not proceed alone.
Now I realise for the vet, time is money and another call could come at any time. When the calf was righted it became a normal birth but I realise the cow would need to be left to get on with it by herself for some time so that her cervix would get a chance to open up properly. The calf was strong and there was no great urgency. Besides a section takes some time as there is a lot of prep involved.
I ve seen every calving difficulty in the book - including Siamese twins - and it is the first time I ve had cause to doubt a veterinary decision.
I had some explaining to do next day when brother sobered up! An average calf and its mother cut up.
Quote from: trileacman on April 19, 2015, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 19, 2015, 12:10:05 PM
I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.
So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?
Steady on Trillick, they paid for services to get the best possible solution, they have seen numerous calvings and have a good knowledge on the subject and its their property so they are entitled to an opinion on what the best solution might be. But also for the above reason I think you should have let your opinion be known to the vet moysider...
Quote from: trileacman on April 19, 2015, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 19, 2015, 12:10:05 PM
I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.
So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?
Fairly simple really, he's called out dozens of vets over the years in similar circumstances and has never seen one behave like this fella did.
That's the worst thing when it's not your own moy. You have to be extra careful. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I said YES an hour ago when we got the silage in for the year.
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 20, 2015, 12:36:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 19, 2015, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 19, 2015, 12:10:05 PM
I wouldn't have much first-hand experience Moy but I'm fairly certain my father had something similar with a (male) vet who seemed to cut the cow open readily enough and maybe two got infected afterwards, at least one of which died. AFAIK, he told the practice owner he didn't want that vet out again.
So your dad couldn't get the calf out but is unhappy that the vet concurred that he couldn't get the calf out and preformed a section? Lads help me out here, when you couldn't manage to calve the cow yourselves why the unholy outrage when the vet finds that they can't calve it either. Explain why there's one rule for them and a completely different rule for you?
Fairly simple really, he's called out dozens of vets over the years in similar circumstances and has never seen one behave like this fella did.
Last calf of the year Thursday evening and it was a close run thing!
Big calf and one of our smaller cows that just survived a bad bout of photosensitization last August and was indoors since last August until early this May.
I knew it could end in grief but I decided to go with the jack even though I had alarm bells ringing all over the place. Usually, with what I was presented with, I would have rang our vet practice, but after our experiences earlier this year I decided to go for broke. I had 3 sections already, 2 of which I thought were unnecessary and all of which were not satisfactory. The cows that were sectioned in Feb. are still raw. The most recent one did not knit together at all and still has a 'very' open wound. I won t have to take out her stitches because the whole op. site just sloughed off - stitches and all. Only pour-on for flies and antiseptic spray is preventing a right mess.
So I decided to pull this last calf. I began to regret it immediately. Getting ropes on the feet took 10 mins. even though she pushed him out as far as she could ( turned out his face was swollen from the pressure). Then the fun began. Even though the calf's head was well presented there was no give when we tried to hand pull. So on to the jack. Usually you can pop the calf's head easily enough using the jack as a lever rather than just ratcheting all the time - that s the way to do when you resort to the jack.
When the head popped the mother went down and jack slipped a bit but managed to get the calf clear to midriff and stopped and took the pressure off him and got him breathing. Water in the ear. little finger up the nose etc. He was in a bit of distress and started bawling a bit but that was a good sign as well. His lungs were A+. He was strong as an ox but I was hoping that his head/shoulders were bigger than his hips or we were fucked. We were talking millimetres. I tried to turn him a bit so that his presentation would match the mother's pelvis at the widest but forget that !!! well, maybe in hindsight I may have made a difference.
Even before we reached the hip stage we ran out of jack and we had to move the ropes above the knees to continue. It came as pleasant surprise that there was no jam at the hips. It was just a gradual pull and that was some bloody relief!!! We stopped pulling before the calf was fully born and the naval cord was still intact. This can help a calf recover.
I wasn t too worried about the mother because during the pull there was no ominous snaps or cracking sounds that indicate a broken pelvis/ligament/ nerve damage that usually ends up very badly. She staggered to her feet shortly after and her back feet did a good impression of John Cleese's goosestep. Her strange gait did not stop her throwing a few well aimed kicks when I had to milk her shortly after. I don t mind that because she is a very pleasant character most of the time. She bonded with the calf straight away, but the calf was beat. Alive and breathing but badly squeezed and bruised.
It was outdoors as well and the weather was more like March than almost June. We milked the mother (a few kicks were thrown), and the calf fed a bit reluctantly. A few hours later it was obvious he needed a bit of tlc so we brought him indoors. His breathing was fine. Squeezed calves are often panters. They take short breaths and are difficult to feed and are slow to get up. They often need a hot lamp and a few feeds by stomach tube.
This was too big for 2 to carry any distance let 400yards so transport box was the mode. Mother wouldn t leave where she calved so she had to be coaxed and cajoled in after with nuts.
Even though the calf was strong he would not suck from a hand held feeder too well and it was hard work, but I only use stomach tubing when all else fails .
Then his naval started to bleed. I noticed a few drips when I was putting some iodine on him bit a bit later it was a steady drip. I put pressure on but no good. I tied it high up with string and hoped it would clot. Then I went to bed. It was 2am.
Next day the calf was flat out but thankfully alive. More milking and kicking but managed to get him feed a bit. I tried to get him on his feet but front legs were a mess - but as any farmer will tell you that s better than the back legs gone.
Both front pasterns were bent back. The right looked like it would sort itself but the left was bad and when the calf was held up his front left would end up beside his back left. Mostly these issues resolves themselves but if they don't you end up with a year old walking on its 'wrists'. The following day I managed to lift and keep the calf upright long enough to get him sucking his mother. He collapsed numerous times and my back felt the repeated lifting and manoeuvrings, but unbelievably the cow - who was never petted or mollycoddled - stood still and cooperated.
Front left leg was still just flapping though. So I decided to do something that has worked for me before but you never get any credit for it. Using a bandage and a splint you make it impossible for the calf to walk on its wrists and the calf must walk on its toes. Usually fter 2 days its tendons have stretched and the bandaging can come off. The fact it helps the calf to stand and walk helps encourages it to get up, move and that helps stay warm and feed. I found the calf this evening in an old yard in a bunch of nettles after he was able to get up and follow his mother outside and walk! Of course people will say he would get ok anyway.
Biggest calf of the year. Chanced it ok. It could have ended in grief I know. But the vet's enthusiasm for sections in the first place alarmed me. The poor recovery of the cows after is concerning tbh. And that's putting it mildly. I had cows sectioned 20 years ago that healed and stitches removed 3 weeks later.
Great result on this calving. Especially happy about the cow. Not a bother on her. Up and about and nosing about an old yard and not another cow in sight. She's happy out with the calf. Just like a bitch showing off a litter of pups.
Great read moysider, glad both are doin well.
Makes me wish I was back doing the same thing
What breed are they? Cow & bull?
Great read there, Moysider.
Farming is truly a calling.
Has anyone ever given a normal cost account of a cow for a year? Cost of feed, housing, testing, etc versus sale price of calf and milk receipts?
Enjoyed that Moysider! You've a way with words! Glad it worked out well for you!
+1
Really inciteful read moysider
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2015, 03:51:47 AM
Great read moysider, glad both are doin well.
Makes me wish I was back doing the same thing
What breed are they? Cow & bull?
Delighted people enjoyed the read. Must learn how to post photos.
Look, I ve the chance to do a bit of messing about with cows and calves but I don t consider it farming. Farming is a business and you have to make a living out of it. I don t. It s a hobby, a distraction and the more of those we have the better imo. It's one of several things that keep me half right!
The cow is a Charolais/Simmental X and the sire was our own Simmental stock bull. As well as some commercial cows I also breed some pure bred Simmentals.
Great post from you Moysider. Didn't know that you're a farmer, as i am myself..I used to breed pedigree Charolais cattle , and even bred a champion in Carrick on Shannon...Could tell you some right stories from those days. Moysider, those other cows that you had sectioned should have healed up by now.
Quote from: theskull1 on May 31, 2015, 10:54:17 AM
+1
Really inciteful read moysider
Great read.
I thought that expletives were automatically filtered out of posts ?. One seems to have got through the net in this report. But we'll forgive you that !.
Quote from: moysider on May 31, 2015, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2015, 03:51:47 AM
Great read moysider, glad both are doin well.
Makes me wish I was back doing the same thing
What breed are they? Cow & bull?
Delighted people enjoyed the read. Must learn how to post photos.
Look, I ve the chance to do a bit of messing about with cows and calves but I don t consider it farming. Farming is a business and you have to make a living out of it. I don t. It s a hobby, a distraction and the more of those we have the better imo. It's one of several things that keep me half right!
The cow is a Charolais/Simmental X and the sire was our own Simmental stock bull. As well as some commercial cows I also breed some pure bred Simmentals.
Heard that they hold on to the calf longer as well leaving the calf larger. Never heard that about the cord before either makes sense tho. Do you leave it there before pushing the back legs out?
There is nothing like a calving going right tho for satisfaction especially when the animal does well after it. Makes me miss it, maybe its because I was born into it but I don't believe there is any job with better job satisfaction than farming.
Although as you say the stress and worry of making ends meet is where the problem lies when your at proper commercial farming, so many unknowns and massive investment required. Any other businessman would laugh at it as a commercial enterprise because of the risks involved.
Reading down through Moysiders great post, coincidentally at present we have bother a newborn heifer calf (week old tomorrow) and its back legs. It was quite large calf from Charolais bull & Belgian blue cow. The cow was very heavy before calving and we were watching her tight as we had an operation with another cow just the week before.
After not progressing in the field we got her into the shed were we got the jack, front legs and head out and proceeded. The jacking didn't seem any more strenuous than previous successful calving episodes were the jack was needed.
Everything seemed normal enough, left them a few hours and went back to check on the new arrival and noticed the calf hadnt got up and sucked. As it was getting late we got cow milked and got colostrum into the calf.
The calf wasnt seemingly able to "lock out" the back hinches when it stood and it couldnt stand un aided for more than a few seconds. We took it to Vet, he gave it few jabs but he wasnt sure either what exactly was wrong possibly trapped nerve, muscle problem, hurt at calving, he maintained you just have to preserver for a few weeks to see if it comes right.
We are currently few times a day having to run the cow up the crush and calf suckles from its knees under the cow. It nearly a week and we notice calf has got slighting stronger on legs but not much possibly stand 20secs/& walk few steps before buckling.
It is a real clinker of a calf and good health expect the back legs. Just wondering does anyone else have experience to this kind of thing coming right or pardon the pun are we flogging a dead horse??
Maybe, maybe not. More than likely you've damaged one of the major nerves to the hindlimb, which is a potential danger when you've foetal maternal disproportion. The nerve most likely has degenerated but can potential regenerate. The rate of growth is slow, something like 1cm a day max. Treatment is usually supportive, administrating anti-oxidants can help prevent further damage but like a lot of injuries sustained by cattle there is only a limited supply of therapies. If you're more unlucky, you've dislocated part of the lower spine which carries a worse prognosis. As for the outcome in this case it's hard to say before 4-6 weeks have passed, that's a long time to nurse it along but it's really up to you if you have the time to commit to the calf.
As an aside, farming is a financial basket case for the exact sentiments expressed on this thread. Far too much emotional attachment is applied to the industry, distorting the price of land, animals and machinery and making completely impossible for it too survive without subsidization. It is by an large an extension of gardening with individuals competing against their neighbors irrespective of the cost. Given that the price of beef has fallen over 20% with the price of milk lingering at a low of 20p a litre there's very few of you who would currently see a positive outlook for the future if you were farmers. Combine that with the weather beating the grass into the clay and there's not much joy in farming this week.
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 02, 2015, 06:48:37 AM
Quote from: moysider on May 31, 2015, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2015, 03:51:47 AM
Great read moysider, glad both are doin well.
Makes me wish I was back doing the same thing
What breed are they? Cow & bull?
Delighted people enjoyed the read. Must learn how to post photos.
Look, I ve the chance to do a bit of messing about with cows and calves but I don t consider it farming. Farming is a business and you have to make a living out of it. I don t. It s a hobby, a distraction and the more of those we have the better imo. It's one of several things that keep me half right!
The cow is a Charolais/Simmental X and the sire was our own Simmental stock bull. As well as some commercial cows I also breed some pure bred Simmentals.
Heard that they hold on to the calf longer as well leaving the calf larger. Never heard that about the cord before either makes sense tho. Do you leave it there before pushing the back legs out?
There is nothing like a calving going right tho for satisfaction especially when the animal does well after it. Makes me miss it, maybe its because I was born into it but I don't believe there is any job with better job satisfaction than farming.
Although as you say the stress and worry of making ends meet is where the problem lies when your at proper commercial farming, so many unknowns and massive investment required. Any other businessman would laugh at it as a commercial enterprise because of the risks involved.
Yeah, gestation for these heading for 10 months sometimes. And bulls take longer than heifers, so when you factor in that bulls are usually bigger units anyway they can get a bit tricky. The naval thing is just something I do sometimes. I just stop pulling when the hips are clear.
A few years ago
front of the mountain I had a calfeen that had a weak back leg. It was a veterinary assisted birth but one of those close calls where maybe in hindsight a caesarean might have been a wiser option, but I had no problem with the call before or after. It was a first calf heifer and the supposedly easy calving limousin stuck at the hips. We eventually freed it and it was in good health apart from its back leg that kept sliding away behind it. We tried everything but he did not improve. He had to be handfed and lifted and turned but could not get to his feet at all. After about 3 weeks we decided to have him put down. By then he had become a right pet and used to really get into it at feeding time. I found myself getting fond of the poor devil as well and it was a wretch having him euthanized.
Have enjoyed reading this thread over the last few months so decided to join in, we run a herd of sucklers and replacements (all simmental x) and this year are having a few problems with calves becoming poorly after calving. We are lucky to have big rangey cows and an easy calving bull (only one pulled this year from a first calver, which was a brute of a bull calf) but have lost 4 (and lucky to have had a few others come good after treatment, to a mystery illness.) The calves were lively for a few days after calving then start to become wobbly on legs, dont suck and scour badly. They are calved are run in bedded pens for a few days then put out to grass/silage in the field.. Anyone have similar problems? It couldnt be lack of minerals as cows are given a daily sprinkle of mineral dust over the silage.. we are thinking it could be a bug in the shed/pens and have been using lime mixed through the bedding or something in the cows (BVD free herd) so are going for blood test.. also the changing weather may be a factor... Any of you had the same problems/symptoms?
Quote from: gaah_man on June 04, 2015, 12:02:36 PM
Have enjoyed reading this thread over the last few months so decided to join in, we run a herd of sucklers and replacements (all simmental x) and this year are having a few problems with calves becoming poorly after calving. We are lucky to have big rangey cows and an easy calving bull (only one pulled this year from a first calver, which was a brute of a bull calf) but have lost 4 (and lucky to have had a few others come good after treatment, to a mystery illness.) The calves were lively for a few days after calving then start to become wobbly on legs, dont suck and scour badly. They are calved are run in bedded pens for a few days then put out to grass/silage in the field.. Anyone have similar problems? It couldnt be lack of minerals as cows are given a daily sprinkle of mineral dust over the silage.. we are thinking it could be a bug in the shed/pens and have been using lime mixed through the bedding or something in the cows (BVD free herd) so are going for blood test.. also the changing weather may be a factor... Any of you had the same problems/symptoms?
Have you ruled out joint ill?
I know there s a book thread on here but I m talking here about a farming book.
The Shepherd's Life by James Rebanks is some read.
Even if you ve never kept sheep. I haven t. My father tried to keep a flock of cheviots but gave up. The local town collection of lurchers, terriers and assorted mongrels turned them into dogfood before I was even old to remember them. But I remember retold stories of the horror.
Moysider, all in a day's work for you I'm sure but full of admiration here. Could read that stuff all day.
:(
Quote from: ONeill on June 07, 2015, 12:27:45 AM
Moysider, all in a day's work for you I'm sure but full of admiration here. Could read that stuff all day.
And it's not even my day's work. This is stuff I do to get over my day's work :(
Quote from: moysider on June 06, 2015, 11:14:34 PM
Quote from: gaah_man on June 04, 2015, 12:02:36 PM
Have enjoyed reading this thread over the last few months so decided to join in, we run a herd of sucklers and replacements (all simmental x) and this year are having a few problems with calves becoming poorly after calving. We are lucky to have big rangey cows and an easy calving bull (only one pulled this year from a first calver, which was a brute of a bull calf) but have lost 4 (and lucky to have had a few others come good after treatment, to a mystery illness.) The calves were lively for a few days after calving then start to become wobbly on legs, dont suck and scour badly. They are calved are run in bedded pens for a few days then put out to grass/silage in the field.. Anyone have similar problems? It couldnt be lack of minerals as cows are given a daily sprinkle of mineral dust over the silage.. we are thinking it could be a bug in the shed/pens and have been using lime mixed through the bedding or something in the cows (BVD free herd) so are going for blood test.. also the changing weather may be a factor... Any of you had the same problems/symptoms?
Have you ruled out joint ill?
Vet gave a bottle of antibiotic for joint ill so the calves get a jag of it if they show any signs. We give all the calves a jag of Vitesel as soon as they hit the ground.. I was wary of this but vet assures it causes no problems. Since I posted we had another bull calf start to scour and look dull. He got a jag of LA Terramycin and some electrolytes down his throat. He was dancing around the pen within a couple of hours. Hard to get to the bottom of it thus far.
On another note has anyone had a year where they have had a ridiculously high number of calves of the one sex. We have 20 on the ground so far with 16 being bulls.. not that I am complaining but like to have a nice choice (10 to 15) heifers to pick half a dozen replacements out of each year. Is it pot luck or would the bull be a big factor. Have another 10 to calve within the next 3 weeks so will be interesting to see how it goes, as long as their healthy I dont care!
Been wondering alot about alternatives types of farming in Ireland, since industrailisation it has been more and more dominated by grass as a crop and cattle/milk as the product with sheep for the higher ground. Is there still even any sugar beet grown in the South East?
One thing I will use as an example is hazelnuts, the trees grow wild in Ireland and are very common on bad land I presume that means they like acid soils. So is it possible to have them as a profitable cash crop? I presume one obstacle to harvesting would be uneven ground. I found this guy in Wicklow was at it https://twitter.com/Hells_Kettle but it seems actually organic beef is still his main deal.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts of non livestock type farming that would not be considered the norm/traditional?
Been mentioned on this forum before but if you have a spare hour this is a brilliant read.
Not a farmer myself but have spent manys a day with the uncle chasing these mad f**kers across fields and ditches.
http://www.anfearrua.ie/topic.aspx?id=436611
Quote from: Franko on June 27, 2015, 12:21:41 PM
Been mentioned on this forum before but if you have a spare hour this is a brilliant read.
Not a farmer myself but have spent manys a day with the uncle chasing these mad f**kers across fields and ditches.
http://www.anfearrua.ie/topic.aspx?id=436611
I would say this is the funniest topic I have ever read ,but you would have to have been a farmers son to appreciate it
Quote from: Franko on June 27, 2015, 12:21:41 PM
Been mentioned on this forum before but if you have a spare hour this is a brilliant read.
Not a farmer myself but have spent manys a day with the uncle chasing these mad f**kers across fields and ditches.
http://www.anfearrua.ie/topic.aspx?id=436611
Brilliant reading ;D ;D ;D brought back some memories of a crop of Sim calves we had many moons ago out of black Lim heifers. They were christened 'the reindeer' amongst other expletives. absolutely horrible cattle to work with. wasn't a person, fence, ditch or gate to stop them in the country when they got going. At the sight of the van pulling up at the gate they headed for the far corner of the field and if you entered the field they lapped it like champion thoroughbreds. Took the boss 6 weeks of daily meal delivery to get them to come near the gate where a temporary pen was erected. They eventually came for the rattle of the bucket (except for the wildest hoor of the lot who never left the far corner until van was out of sight) and pure luck one evening they were all in the pen the boss got nipped in and closed game behind them. Getting them on the trailer was total relief. They went into a pen for a month of fattening and off to abattoir they went.
We have never had a crop as wild since, not sure what the problem was. Only real stress they would have had as calves was dehorning and the old burdizzo (no hassle nowadays as the boys are ringed and all dehorned within 10days of hitting the ground).
Have heard stories of men having to get a marksman in to shoot cattle in the field as it was a total health hazard to enter the field never mind get them into a pen.
Moy, we had a cow earlier in the year that I thought wouldn't calf over night but when I got up in the morning the head was out and calf dead. Found then that one of his front legs had gone down so he couldn't be pulled for fear of tearing the cow completely. The cow was down at this stage.
Called out the vet and he proceeded to take out a small blade and we cut the head off the calf, tough work. Then the two of us pushed the calf back into the cow, both of us rolling in sweat up to our shoulders and eventually managed the get the leg up and pull the calf, the cow jumped up and unsteadily went about eating the cleanings.
The reason I tell the story is that while we were struggling to push the calf back in my oul lad suggested to the vet doing a section but the vet said no, she'd never get up and she'd be destroyed.
We'd have Herefords which are a lot easier to calf but I can't remember the last section and we even had a few heifers who were accidentally got in calf too young.
Wow that sounds like a brutal operation Mayo4Sam.
Wuda thought with all of the dead calf's blood going back in the cow there would be a serious rick of infection
Wouldn t be. Just be careful to keep a hand over the spine stump to stop the cow getting ripped as you pull out the rest of him. Apart from the poor presentation the calf might be modest enough in size. In fairness cows can take some punishment compared with say a mare or even a bitch.
I d say as well Mayo4sam when the calf was dead it is an easy call to cut the calf out in bits. I ve seen em cut off at the waist as well, the hindquarters cut in half with surgical wire, and one piece at a time removed.
In our cases we were trying to get live calves and the vet probably did not want to risk losing a calf in a tight pull. I still have 3 fine calves and 3 fat cows now to sell and that's better than having a cow down I suppose.
But even the ones that were operated in February are a bit raw and its a daily task to spray them to keep the flies off. They got the pour-on as well. But of course they lick the wound if a fly lights. When I put the last one in to remove the stitches, the hide with the stitches just fell off!
You can imagine how raw that is. But again she's in rude good health besides.
The last big fella we pulled is a clinker of a calf and an oul pet from the handling he got. He s got some muscle on him for a Sim.
I do not miss those nights waiting up for cows to calf, sneaking a look in every hour or two or, in later years, monitoring on the closed circuit tv.
Although the payoff was always great when they were safely delivered!
This thread is full of bullocks.
Quote from: gaah_man on June 29, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 27, 2015, 12:21:41 PM
Been mentioned on this forum before but if you have a spare hour this is a brilliant read.
Not a farmer myself but have spent manys a day with the uncle chasing these mad f**kers across fields and ditches.
http://www.anfearrua.ie/topic.aspx?id=436611
Brilliant reading ;D ;D ;D brought back some memories of a crop of Sim calves we had many moons ago out of black Lim heifers. They were christened 'the reindeer' amongst other expletives. absolutely horrible cattle to work with. wasn't a person, fence, ditch or gate to stop them in the country when they got going. At the sight of the van pulling up at the gate they headed for the far corner of the field and if you entered the field they lapped it like champion thoroughbreds. Took the boss 6 weeks of daily meal delivery to get them to come near the gate where a temporary pen was erected. They eventually came for the rattle of the bucket (except for the wildest hoor of the lot who never left the far corner until van was out of sight) and pure luck one evening they were all in the pen the boss got nipped in and closed game behind them. Getting them on the trailer was total relief. They went into a pen for a month of fattening and off to abattoir they went.
We have never had a crop as wild since, not sure what the problem was. Only real stress they would have had as calves was dehorning and the old burdizzo (no hassle nowadays as the boys are ringed and all dehorned within 10days of hitting the ground).
Have heard stories of men having to get a marksman in to shoot cattle in the field as it was a total health hazard to enter the field never mind get them into a pen.
Limousins have a brutal reputation alright - at least the cross-bred ones have. I asked a breeder about it once and he reckoned that the pure-breds get more handling. A lot of dry cattle and sucklers are kept by part-time farmers who don t spend much time with their stock and when they do it is doing something which is not very pleasant for the animal. Testing involves getting poked by needless and stuff. Also some of the weapons used on the animals in simply shocking. No wonder they are feral and run and jump to fcuk. The same breeder did admit however that when farmers were importing cattle from France that maybe French breeders exported off their crosser stock (and who could blame them). In France Limousins have a reputation for being docile enough. Breeders are also reluctant to cull pure bred breeding animals so the wildness is passed on from generation. Giddy mothers drive their calves mental straight away - even in other breeds - as I have learned to my cost.
Years ago when I was more fond of work than I am now I used to buy a couple of suck calves that I use call floats. I d halter them and get them to suck cows that would have too muck milk for one calf until her own was big enough to take it all. So these calved would move from cow to as the spring calving advanced and they'd get thick fat. It was a great way to raise nice quiet replacement heifers. I d halter them for a few days and lead them out to where the cow would be in the crush and after a few days you just had to open the gate to the yard they were in and they'd come in themselves when called in the usual way. I had Limousins that I bought and did that with and they were as quiet as anything else. It's the handling that quietens them.
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 29, 2015, 05:40:44 PM
Wow that sounds like a brutal operation Mayo4Sam.
Wuda thought with all of the dead calf's blood going back in the cow there would be a serious rick of infection
It was a tough job alright, although the calf was dead and I wouldn't be squemish it was still tough.
Moy, we had a tough job getting the calf back in far enough to get the dropped leg back up. But even with that the section was the last option, whereas your lad sounds like it was the first option. Probably because it's safe for him and there's a fair chance to a successful outcome but it sounds like the more experienced lad would be a better judge of the risk. And the young lad isn't going to learn much like that.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on June 29, 2015, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 29, 2015, 05:40:44 PM
Wow that sounds like a brutal operation Mayo4Sam.
Wuda thought with all of the dead calf's blood going back in the cow there would be a serious rick of infection
It was a tough job alright, although the calf was dead and I wouldn't be squemish it was still tough.
Moy, we had a tough job getting the calf back in far enough to get the dropped leg back up. But even with that the section was the last option, whereas your lad sounds like it was the first option. Probably because it's safe for him and there's a fair chance to a successful outcome but it sounds like the more experienced lad would be a better judge of the risk. And the young lad isn't going to learn much like that.
Was a girl but that makes no odds. As it turns out the practice we use are all female and have found the others brilliant - whether if its a tough jacking or a section. O would never have questioned their judgement before.
The fact that your cow was down would have made that task all the more difficult. Even though she d be well bet by then she'd be still pushing against ye as well. ,A section would have been curtains. Sections on down cows often end bad. Cows that are sectioned and have no calf to distract them after have the fight knocked out of them in my experience.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/Moysider12/IMG_0478_zpsi2tauejt.jpg)
Casualty from earlier in the year. happily it turned out ok!
I remember that thread from An Fear Rua....one of the funniest things I have ever read....."It was like scene from Platoon".....brilliant.
Quote from: moysider on July 01, 2015, 09:41:10 PM
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/Moysider12/IMG_0478_zpsi2tauejt.jpg)
Casualty from earlier in the year. happily it turned out ok!
What happened that one moysider?
Victim of the grape?
God forbid. She'd never have been hit by me or anybody else. A big pet.
She was by herself in a calving pen. She must have been having a right ould scratch because she drove a door-bolt handle into her eye and then tore it out of its casing. I found her walking about in considerable discomfort with this thing hanging out of her eye. I nearly fainted! Took me a while to figure out what it was. I just rang the vet fearing the worst.
We put her in a crush and secured her head so she could hardly move it. Getting halters on was tricky because every time she shook her head the bolt became a swinging weapon. It came out easy enough though. The hooked end was caught in the eyelid and unbelievably the eye itself wasn t damaged. No stitches or anything. It was half closed for a few days but healed perfectly. She calved the following day as well.
One of the rare occasions when things actually work out far better than you thought they would.
I must need the glasses checked. I thought you were pointing at it with a bit of pipe which is the bit of steel. Looks horrible!
Ha just read the Fear Rua thread there gas stuff.
We used to have the limos too crazy feckers. One young bull we had was for the test and he surprisingly enuff went into the crush handy enuff. He then came trundling up the crush and proceeded to launch himself over the side (probably about 5&1/2ft). He landed on his belly bending the tubing and slid off it, trotted into the yard, turned around and looked us and said "Is that the best yis have lads, sure I can do that all day!" :D Couldnt believe what id seen considering his weight and the amount of room he had to maneouer, it was impressive stuff.
Another older bull we had, had a problem with physical barriers, in that he completely ignored them. He usually ran with the cows and when he wasnt he would be in the yard. However once he got out on the road and proceeded to search for our a nice herd of cows. He wasnt to hard to track down in a neighbour's field, or to get shifted, but was he shifting in the direction we wanted? Oh no... he went for the hedge, a nice big thick hawthorn hedge with barbed wire fence. We're thinking, we got him...but he heads straight at the hedge.... and straight thru it... and thru another.... and thru another until he was back on the road . We got him going in roughly the right direction but he would take detours as he decided, our presence was a total irrelevance. We zigaged our way home in a similar fashion wrecking fences and hedges as we went. Weirdly enuff I dont think he was bad tempered he just liked to do things his way.
The ole boy reckons they have a touch of the Spanish bulls in them, which he reckons accounts for their wildness. Reasonable enuff with the calfing too and that from alot of Holstein cows, often requiring a pull, but virtually zero sections. Some of the younger cows tho it could be sore on. and the cattle were big framed but could be hard to fill out.
I also seen reading in the same thread about the dehorning, never knew that about the caustic soda technique, seems humane and relatively hassle free compared to the techniques Ive seen over the years. Those boys that dehorn cattle in a past life musta been the master of torture in a medieval dungeon. Every bit of kit they pull out your going..."now what the feck is he gonna do with that....oh jaysus no, nooo!... :o"
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 04, 2015, 06:26:28 AM
Ha just read the Fear Rua thread there gas stuff.
We used to have the limos too crazy feckers. One young bull we had was for the test and he surprisingly enuff went into the crush handy enuff. He then came trundling up the crush and proceeded to launch himself over the side (probably about 5&1/2ft). He landed on his belly bending the tubing and slid off it, trotted into the yard, turned around and looked us and said "Is that the best yis have lads, sure I can do that all day!" :D Couldnt believe what id seen considering his weight and the amount of room he had to maneouer, it was impressive stuff.
Another older bull we had, had a problem with physical barriers, in that he completely ignored them. He usually ran with the cows and when he wasnt he would be in the yard. However once he got out on the road and proceeded to search for our a nice herd of cows. He wasnt to hard to track down in a neighbour's field, or to get shifted, but was he shifting in the direction we wanted? Oh no... he went for the hedge, a nice big thick hawthorn hedge with barbed wire fence. We're thinking, we got him...but he heads straight at the hedge.... and straight thru it... and thru another.... and thru another until he was back on the road . We got him going in roughly the right direction but he would take detours as he decided, our presence was a total irrelevance. We zigaged our way home in a similar fashion wrecking fences and hedges as we went. Weirdly enuff I dont think he was bad tempered he just liked to do things his way.
The ole boy reckons they have a touch of the Spanish bulls in them, which he reckons accounts for their wildness. Reasonable enuff with the calfing too and that from alot of Holstein cows, often requiring a pull, but virtually zero sections. Some of the younger cows tho it could be sore on. and the cattle were big framed but could be hard to fill out.
I also seen reading in the same thread about the dehorning, never knew that about the caustic soda technique, seems humane and relatively hassle free compared to the techniques Ive seen over the years. Those boys that dehorn cattle in a past life musta been the master of torture in a medieval dungeon. Every bit of kit they pull out your going..."now what the feck is he gonna do with that....oh jaysus no, nooo!... :o"
Dehorning was some some session back in the day before hand held gas blower which we use now. We had a fella come and do it for us complete with syringe, litre bottle of anaesthetic and length of wire with 2 handles. 2 men holding the nose clamp and him sawing like a mad man. Blood squirting until the hot iron was applied. Was like a scene out of a horror movie. Nowadays the hand held torch is handy. Quick jab of anaesthetic and burn the stumps out. All done at 2-3 weeks of calving.
Never heard nor seen caustic soda being used, would be problem not be that it would burn right through to the skull and cause serious issues?
Farmers should be fined at marts if horns are not taken off at 2-3 weeks after birth. Would save a lot of suffering later on.
Need a bit of advice...
I'm not a farmer nor have a tractor, machinery etc. Have approximately an acre of ground (kind of boggy, not suitable for building on) been neglected last few years. Basically, in process of trimming hedges, fencing etc. Problem is the field itself, which has sort of become a wild flower meadow, mixture of all sorts; rushes, briars, nettles, grass etc.
I thought the best thing to do is re-seed, with the view that someone could hire it to chuck in a horse, goat etc, or failing that just get a farmer to mow it once or twice a year, and they can keep the grass/hay for their own life stock. Just to keep on top of it and stop it getting out of control really.
Grass/weeds a few foot high in places, so I presume best thing to do is mow, spray with roundup-type spray, leave to kill, then plough it in. Stuck for time, so mightn't get all done before winter, so just wondered if I got to that point (ploughed), what state would weeds be come spring? Ideally, would like all done and re-seeded before winter, but I'd be happy enough to pick it up in the spring providing things hadn't got out of hand again. Any thoughts?
Also, when reseeded, obviously weeds will grow naturally along with the grass seed, so would the grass/hay that would be mowed annually be good enough for a farmers use (or be good grazing for an animal)? Or would I have to periodically spray the field to stop weeds appearing?
Would a Goat be able to clear the field? Is it true they eat anthing?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2015, 01:44:39 PM
Need a bit of advice...
I'm not a farmer nor have a tractor, machinery etc. Have approximately an acre of ground (kind of boggy, not suitable for building on) been neglected last few years. Basically, in process of trimming hedges, fencing etc. Problem is the field itself, which has sort of become a wild flower meadow, mixture of all sorts; rushes, briars, nettles, grass etc.
I thought the best thing to do is re-seed, with the view that someone could hire it to chuck in a horse, goat etc, or failing that just get a farmer to mow it once or twice a year, and they can keep the grass/hay for their own life stock. Just to keep on top of it and stop it getting out of control really.
Grass/weeds a few foot high in places, so I presume best thing to do is mow, spray with roundup-type spray, leave to kill, then plough it in. Stuck for time, so mightn't get all done before winter, so just wondered if I got to that point (ploughed), what state would weeds be come spring? Ideally, would like all done and re-seeded before winter, but I'd be happy enough to pick it up in the spring providing things hadn't got out of hand again. Any thoughts?
Also, when reseeded, obviously weeds will grow naturally along with the grass seed, so would the grass/hay that would be mowed annually be good enough for a farmers use (or be good grazing for an animal)? Or would I have to periodically spray the field to stop weeds appearing?
I'd think if you get on the case that should all be manageable before winter. Bate it off and spray it quickly. Leave it the allotted time and plough. Let it dry for a while if you get the weather. August is meant to be right good so should suit for seeding.
Spraying off before the ploughing is a great job, really kills off the weeds well. Depends on how wet/poor your soil is but if the field is cut once/twice yearly it's your best bet to keep the weeds out. Graze with sheep or lighter animals and avoid grazing in wetter months. Also I'd advise cutting down the ditches as much as possible and opening up the headlands to help dry it out as best you can.
Even poor ground can be well maintained with proper care. Regular application of fertilizer is as important as spraying weeds as it helps the grass to choke it's competitors. Slurry in particular is some of the best fertilizer about if your ground is poor in nutrients but relatively dry.
Personally I'd avoid leasing it for horse/goat grazing. Mowing is really your best bet to keep it in good order, it avoids poaching the ground if done at the right time of year.
Thanks, T-man.
Forgot to mention I need the drains dug out, so that'll hold things up. As will this feckin' weather we're having, but hopefully I can get things sorted by winter.
Realistically though, I'd imagine in boggy land (although it has been shored), end of September would be the cut-off point for ploughing (or discing)?
What's the deal with seeding? I heard something about only doing it in a month with an R. Is this true?
Excuse my ignorance, what's the poaching you mentioned?
Not easy getting the second cut in with this rain men
Quote from: gaah_man on August 21, 2015, 09:48:17 AM
Not easy getting the second cut in with this rain men
What is the protocol for the roads during these silage drawing sessions?
Is it the farmers responsibility to give the road a brush after they are done to prevent it from becoming a hazard?
The decent farmer who does his own silage work will get out and clean where the road is mucked coming out of fields but the big contractors dont give a f**k. i'd normally give the road a scrape with the power link box if its bad
Quote from: gaah_man on August 21, 2015, 10:00:35 AM
The decent farmer who does his own silage work will get out and clean where the road is mucked coming out of fields but the big contractors dont give a f**k. i'd normally give the road a scrape with the power link box if its bad
I thought this might be the case, but our way the contractors seem to be doing the bulk of it and the roads are a disgrace for weeks after.
Not only annoying for other road users but also dangerous in parts.
Can anyone advise me on landowner rights in regard to costs to maintain field drainage, when there are properties who's storm water & septic tanks run into the field drainage.
The properties used to be part of the small holding but were sold on years ago. One of the owners runs a business out of his yard with lots of cleaning/power hosing taking place (not sure if that's relevant)
Is there an agreed liability to maintain the drainage of the field or does the landowner have to bear the costs?
What's this I hear about new EU regulations about using weed killers/pesticides etc?
You have to does a course to get registered so that you can buy and spray this stuff now
Quote from: theskull1 on August 21, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Can anyone advise me on landowner rights in regard to costs to maintain field drainage, when there are properties who's storm water & septic tanks run into the field drainage.
The properties used to be part of the small holding but were sold on years ago. One of the owners runs a business out of his yard with lots of cleaning/power hosing taking place (not sure if that's relevant)
Is there an agreed liability to maintain the drainage of the field or does the landowner have to bear the costs?
Sounds like something that would take a court case to resolve.
However those properties are now not the previous holdings responsibility. No way the contents of septic tanks should be going anywhere else. How can septic contents be allowed run onto another property! Or storm water?
Also if a business is using a lot of water they should have facilities to cope with it.
I ve a problem with a field beside a housing estate. Some residents feel free to fly tip rubbish into the field. I wouldn t be able to keep sheep ( I'd like to but I know from experience that they'd be be chewed up), so the dogs are not a problem. Most dogs learn quickly not to mess with cows with calves and stay clear. But the rubbish is a problem and hits ye financially. Cattle are curious and chew on things and I ve had losses and vet bills from animals dying/treated from plastic induced colic and lamed from walking on broken bottles and jars.
Whose responsibility? Council didn t want to know ( report to Garda was their advice).
The Gardaí told me what I already knew. Take these few tippers on and they ll probably hurt us more in reprisal. Their advice was ' put up another electric fence 10' from the wall to keep the cattle away from rubbish being thrown in - or clean it up yerself with regular sweeps'
Not criticising the guards here btw, they were just telling me what I already thought myself.
When the shoe is on the other foot though the cheque book has to come out. I had a yearling heifer - in heat - getting out of same field and damaging a car. Ye shoulda seen the bill. I made the mistake of telling the owner that I had public liability insurance ( ye kinda have to have PL insurance when you have animals that can kill people in a place where people just go walk about), and boy did he and his panel-beater friend go to town on a broken light and a slight dent. Ah well.
Quote from: Hereiam on August 24, 2015, 12:28:58 PM
You have to does a course to get registered so that you can buy and spray this stuff now
You can't even buy sprays without being registered? I'll just have to stock up before this arrives!
So, for the third time in ten days I've arrived home to find a line full of washing ruined due to slurry being spread. Happened last Monday, on Saturday and again today. 5 loads of washing including school uniforms having to be rewashed and tumbled dried because of the smell outside. I've no issue with spreading but 3 times in 10 days in a city? I live three miles from Belfast city centre! It would be nice if there was some kind of notification. I'd say the weather conditions are causing the smell to hang around. Any of you farming lads let neighbours know when you're spreading out of courtesy?
Quote from: CD on October 01, 2015, 07:08:17 PM
So, for the third time in ten days I've arrived home to find a line full of washing ruined due to slurry being spread. Happened last Monday, on Saturday and again today. 5 loads of washing including school uniforms having to be rewashed and tumbled dried because of the smell outside. I've no issue with spreading but 3 times in 10 days in a city? I live three miles from Belfast city centre! It would be nice if there was some kind of notification. I'd say the weather conditions are causing the smell to hang around. Any of you farming lads let neighbours know when you're spreading out of courtesy?
You say you live in a city, 3 miles from Belfast city centre. If the farmer in question wanted to notify the neighbours he'd have to send out thousands of messages!
Just wondering about people's experience with the gas dehorner. My current electric one packed in and I'm looking at a gas replacement. Guilbert Express is the model, little 60g gas canister for €5. Anyone know what I can expect to get out of a can?
So, now that the evenings on the turn, I'm starting to think about getting my patch of land sorted.
Sprayed and left the land over winter. Have decided in spring to get the field reseeded as a wildflower meadow, and stick a beehive or two in it.
Just wondered if anyone have any advice on what flowers to sow that would be beneficial for the bees, as well as the upkeep, mowing, timing etc?
What about a little corner with few veg and spuds in it.
Quote from: redzone on December 27, 2015, 07:06:15 PM
What about a little corner with few veg and spuds in it.
Aye, thinking of doing that as well actually. Just a few bits and pieces for the table.
I work full time and have been left a small farm. Basically I am going to apply for the young farmers add on based on having completed my level 2 course, but I am worried that the extra money coming in along with my salary would push me into the higher tax bracket and leave me getting taxed heavily for what I almost expect to be a cost neutral hobby
With the way the young farmers add on is worded i.e. owning 51%+ of the business, I am wondering should I be registering a company and then doing my tax returns at year end when I can see what the balance sheet is like, and whether I want to reinvest in machinery, animals etc.
Has anyone done this before? How does it work? What are the negatives to the shareholders in the business? Does the business have to own the land, or can I do this as an individual and the animals/machinery are the assets?
Any help or suggestions would be great
If ur accountant is any good he can make sure u don't pay any additional tax.
Was reared on a farm but haven't been farming for years, recently inherited some land that was rented out for years and was badly neglected, stone ditches all need tidied up and in some cases fence erected on top of the ditch which isn't an easy operation. I've heard of metal posts being available where the wire clips in to the post and may be better than trying to use timber posts, any advice would be appreciated.
On a different note, really enjoyed some of the posts, especially around the calving, brilliant read and brings back memories when we were growing up.
Quote from: Nailer on February 06, 2016, 10:18:52 AM
Was reared on a farm but haven't been farming for years, recently inherited some land that was rented out for years and was badly neglected, stone ditches all need tidied up and in some cases fence erected on top of the ditch which isn't an easy operation. I've heard of metal posts being available where the wire clips in to the post and may be better than trying to use timber posts, any advice would be appreciated.
On a different note, really enjoyed some of the posts, especially around the calving, brilliant read and brings back memories when we were growing up.
You see very few metal posts in the countryside which makes me suspicious of their suitability to Irish farming. Grand for big roaming tracts of New Zealand maybe but not really here.
Quote from: wanderer on February 05, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
I work full time and have been left a small farm. Basically I am going to apply for the young farmers add on based on having completed my level 2 course, but I am worried that the extra money coming in along with my salary would push me into the higher tax bracket and leave me getting taxed heavily for what I almost expect to be a cost neutral hobby
With the way the young farmers add on is worded i.e. owning 51%+ of the business, I am wondering should I be registering a company and then doing my tax returns at year end when I can see what the balance sheet is like, and whether I want to reinvest in machinery, animals etc.
Has anyone done this before? How does it work? What are the negatives to the shareholders in the business? Does the business have to own the land, or can I do this as an individual and the animals/machinery are the assets?
Any help or suggestions would be great
It must be sizeably more than a small farm if your worried that the sfp will push up your taxes. As was said ask a decent accountant with clients in your situation, the country's full of them. Tbh no one here knows enough about your finances or situation to offer iron clad advice.
What I'm sure is that farming to a average degree at all will cost you money not be a net earner even with the payment. I wouldn't worry so much about heart tax returns, calculate how much you'll recieve in a year from payments and sale of cattle and count what you'll pay to feed the stock, maintain/buy machinery, upkeep on the land/yard and you'll find your income is quickly pissed away.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 24, 2015, 04:49:54 PM
Just wondering about people's experience with the gas dehorner. My current electric one packed in and I'm looking at a gas replacement. Guilbert Express is the model, little 60g gas canister for €5. Anyone know what I can expect to get out of a can?
I've had both, would use the electric one more because it doesn't run out. Gas is grand if your going round the country doing calves in old yards with no electric. I found once the seal was broke on a canister that was it used. Ie you could horn two calves today and go back in a weeks time and the gas had leaked out in the intervening time. Plus you'd never have canisters when you'd want them, electric is a near constant supply.
Quote from: trileacman on February 06, 2016, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on December 24, 2015, 04:49:54 PM
Just wondering about people's experience with the gas dehorner. My current electric one packed in and I'm looking at a gas replacement. Guilbert Express is the model, little 60g gas canister for €5. Anyone know what I can expect to get out of a can?
I've had both, would use the electric one more because it doesn't run out. Gas is grand if your going round the country doing calves in old yards with no electric. I found once the seal was broke on a canister that was it used. Ie you could horn two calves today and go back in a weeks time and the gas had leaked out in the intervening time. Plus you'd never have canisters when you'd want them, electric is a near constant supply.
I use the Express gas dehorning gun, calves usually done at 6 weeks when the buds of the horns are starting to rise. Handy job and not too sore on gas.
Had to dehorn a few fresian calves for elderly neighbour before christmas using the horn cutters and old style iron. Was like a scene from a horror, plenty of blood squirting. Never again!
Hows the calving going? Not started yet due to the bull taking Red Water a week before going with the cows, put everything back 6 weeks.
Noticed he was a touch dull when feeding one day and managed to see that his urine was a dark colour. He picked it up from ticks which were nicely attached between his front legs. Another 48hrs and he would have been a goner!
Quote from: wanderer on February 05, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
I work full time and have been left a small farm. Basically I am going to apply for the young farmers add on based on having completed my level 2 course, but I am worried that the extra money coming in along with my salary would push me into the higher tax bracket and leave me getting taxed heavily for what I almost expect to be a cost neutral hobby
With the way the young farmers add on is worded i.e. owning 51%+ of the business, I am wondering should I be registering a company and then doing my tax returns at year end when I can see what the balance sheet is like, and whether I want to reinvest in machinery, animals etc.
Has anyone done this before? How does it work? What are the negatives to the shareholders in the business? Does the business have to own the land, or can I do this as an individual and the animals/machinery are the assets?
Any help or suggestions would be great
I nearly fell over laughing at this post - a farmer worrying about taxes :o
Fecking hell the weather is serious. Slurry is filling up in the tanks, nowhere to get it out. At least we have another pit of silage to go through, but the slurry situation is worrying.
Any full time farmers on the board?
Part-timer Farr
Anyone use something like this
http://moomonitor.dairymaster.com
So details are starting to come out about how the CAP payment is going to be dealt with after Brexit. The current form will continue for 5 years after brexit but the government are going to look after the largest land owners first and foremost with the new policies they plan to indtroduce after the 5 years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42559845 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42559845)
Largest UK land owners are:
1. The Forestry Commission
2. The National Trust
3. Defence Estates, for the Ministry of Defence
4. The Pension Funds
5. Utilities: water,electricity, railways
6. The Crown Estate
7. The RSPB
8. The Duke of Buccleuch & Queensberry
http://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/who-owns-britain-top-uk-landowners-20178 (http://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/who-owns-britain-top-uk-landowners-20178)
These 8 own a total of approx 2 million acres of land which at the moment is taking in some dough from europe.
I don't see where the beef/milk/sheep farmers are going to benefit from growing wild flower meadows
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 16, 2016, 03:47:44 PM
Any full time farmers on the board?
Actually, I was telling your dad I'm thinking of going back in milking full time
On a separate note, an argument on a different thread brought up VAT, any farmers on here registered for VAT? And if so how come?
Farmers who have an annual turnover of 41k from intra-community acquisitions must register. If you brought in equipment from somewhere in the EU
Up in the north I would say most farmers are registered for VAT. I am anyway
Quote from: Hereiam on December 19, 2018, 09:46:08 AM
Up in the north I would say most farmers are registered for VAT. I am anyway
Yeah in the North and VAT registered.
Two questions:
1. Have a patch of land. Tall trees at bottom, which are getting a bit big and awkward. Probably would need to come down. But, if one were to fall/was blown into a neighbouring field, who's responsibility is it to clear it?
Also, if it were to fall and damage neighbours fencing, would I have to pay for or carry out the repairs?
2. Those same trees, if I were to cut them down low, say 6-10 foot from the ground. Would they grow new branches/leaves, for a lower cover/shelter? The trees are sycamore, birch and a kind of poplar, I think.
Any advice welcome.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2019, 09:11:37 PM
Two questions:
1. Have a patch of land. Tall trees at bottom, which are getting a bit big and awkward. Probably would need to come down. But, if one were to fall/was blown into a neighbouring field, who's responsibility is it to clear it?
Also, if it were to fall and damage neighbours fencing, would I have to pay for or carry out the repairs?
2. Those same trees, if I were to cut them down low, say 6-10 foot from the ground. Would they grow new branches/leaves, for a lower cover/shelter? The trees are sycamore, birch and a kind of poplar, I think.
Any advice welcome.
You would have to be responsible for any damage. No?
There's no guarantee the trees will stay topped. Sycamores grow and grow from every angle.
Your neighbour would claim off his insurance co for any damage from your trees. His insurance co will likely chase yours. Your renewal premium will likely go up. You pay in the long run.
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 06, 2019, 10:22:43 PM
Your neighbour would claim off his insurance co for any damage from your trees. His insurance co will likely chase yours. Your renewal premium will likely go up. You pay in the long run.
Hmm, i don't have insurance. Land not attached to the house. Just a patch of land in the country, with nothing in it at the minute.
Anyone rising new spuds yet?
Had some of the Da in laws last night and they were big.
Good growing weather it seems.
I'm replacing badly rusted exhaust pipe on MF35.
I've the exhaust clamp off so in theory only need to lift the pipe straight up and off but the rust is so bad the thing ain't budging even after spraying with copious WD40.
Any suggestions as to what to do next? Does it help if the pipe is hot and when do I resort to a hammer and chisel?
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 15, 2020, 09:07:17 PM
I'm replacing badly rusted exhaust pipe on MF35.
I've the exhaust clamp off so in theory only need to lift the pipe straight up and off but the rust is so bad the thing ain't budging even after spraying with copious WD40.
Any suggestions as to what to do next? Does it help if the pipe is hot and when do I resort to a hammer and chisel?
If you can get a bit of heat onto it with a torch it should start to free it up along some gentle persuasion with the hammer. Just be careful not to burn anything else!!
Great, I wasn't too far away, thanks DY
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 15, 2020, 11:46:33 PM
Great, I wasn't too far away, thanks DY
If that doesn't work, run a small angle grinder up the part of the exhaust thats rusted onto the feed pipe, gently though.
that should release a bit of the pressure.
thanks JC
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 15, 2020, 09:07:17 PM
I'm replacing badly rusted exhaust pipe on MF35.
I've the exhaust clamp off so in theory only need to lift the pipe straight up and off but the rust is so bad the thing ain't budging even after spraying with copious WD40.
Any suggestions as to what to do next? Does it help if the pipe is hot and when do I resort to a hammer and chisel?
35s and 35Xs are still on the go?
Amazing machines. Fair fucks to ye!
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 15, 2020, 09:07:17 PM
I'm replacing badly rusted exhaust pipe on MF35.
I've the exhaust clamp off so in theory only need to lift the pipe straight up and off but the rust is so bad the thing ain't budging even after spraying with copious WD40.
Any suggestions as to what to do next? Does it help if the pipe is hot and when do I resort to a hammer and chisel?
35s and 35Xs are still on the go?
Amazing machines. Fair fucks to ye!
Manys a young lad learned the joys of side breaks on the MF35's and 135s when scraping out the byres after milking.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 16, 2020, 02:41:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 16, 2020, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 15, 2020, 09:07:17 PM
I'm replacing badly rusted exhaust pipe on MF35.
I've the exhaust clamp off so in theory only need to lift the pipe straight up and off but the rust is so bad the thing ain't budging even after spraying with copious WD40.
Any suggestions as to what to do next? Does it help if the pipe is hot and when do I resort to a hammer and chisel?
35s and 35Xs are still on the go?
Amazing machines. Fair fucks to ye!
Manys a young lad learned the joys of side breaks on the MF35's and 135s when scraping out the byres after milking.
We'd a 135 when I was very young, but by the time I was old enough to learn, the auld boy have moved up to a bigger Ford tractor in his attempt to wring a living out of the wet Donegal hills.
Even that would look like a Matchbox toy compared to what you see about the roads these days though!
I'm in the market for a 135 myself.
If she's not blue, she won't do. The Father in Law still uses an old Ford 5000 daily and still has a wee Fordson Dexta he got back in the early 60s. The also have a MF but it's a source of some embarrassment.
Quote from: trailer on July 17, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
I'm in the market for a 135 myself.
How much is a 50 year old 135 these days?
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2020, 08:23:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 17, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
I'm in the market for a 135 myself.
How much is a 50 year old 135 these days?
Donegal! https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-135/25277283 (https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-135/25277283)
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 17, 2020, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2020, 08:23:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 17, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
I'm in the market for a 135 myself.
How much is a 50 year old 135 these days?
Donegal! https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-135/25277283 (https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-135/25277283)
Don't touch that one, it's been clocked ;D
I was about to say £5K, so not far off the mark
Are there no small independent gararage in you parish? Any other neighbours who have 135 lately that you could ask? Who repaairs your machinary now? Do you have anything to trade inn? Best bet is talking to neigghblours or your dad if you are inheirting..
Quote from: johnnycool on July 20, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 17, 2020, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2020, 08:23:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 17, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
I'm in the market for a 135 myself.
How much is a 50 year old 135 these days?
Donegal! https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-135/25277283 (https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-135/25277283)
Don't touch that one, it's been clocked ;D
I was about to say £5K, so not far off the mark
LOL just noticed that photo. 5 hours in 50 years is what's called a fresh example. ;D