BLOODY SUNDAY IN CROKE PARK

[cville]

Sorry - think we're all bored now ...

[dubnut]

Bored now?
Nice excuse to avoid making a clear and precise point, maybe because you dont have one!
And whats all this "we" business, do you think everyone else agrees with you?? 

Either make your points clear or dont bother, you are just coming across as a shit stirrer.

[The Bottom Brick]

Cville I have to agree, you made a point and in your next post completely refuted it.

What point were you trying to make originally? Arguing for the sake of it.

I don't think you fully understand what a cliché is either.

[Hardy]

Certainly a seminal event in the GAA's history is worth noting and remembering. What's much more worthy of note and celebration is the fact that it IS in the past and that people are not being shot down in our streets (by the authorities, at least) or in our stadiums any more.

Nobody can deny that the past wins hands down over the future when it comes to celebrations etc. in this country. A little balance wouldn't go amiss and so a little shouting for the future is welcome. We have plenty of marches commemorating past events where people were killed but none at all celebrating the fact that we've had relative peace for twelve years. We have a whole industry in marches celebrating our differences but none at all (that I can think of) promoting or celebrating what unites us.

Remembering the past is beneficial to building a decent future. Using it as tool of division is not. And sadly, for too many people, that is the purpose of these remembrances. We had people here citing the fate of Mick Hogan as a reason not to allow soccer and rugby in Croke Park, for instance and people still fulminating about the possibility that the flag of Britain may fly over it for a few hours, on the basis of what happened 86 years ago. That is a view very informed about what happened in the past but with no regard at all for the future. For instance, what beneficial future effect would it have on the growth and development of the GAA, particularly among the community for whom that happens to be their national flag? Maybe it wouldn't matter to tell them any flag but theirs is acceptable to us. Not if you really don't want them about the place anyway, I suppose.

So the question about how far back we should be 'allowed' to remember can be turned on its head too. When will it be alright to put the past in its place and look to the future, uninfluenced by the considerations of past oppression, massacres, injustices, etc. Now? Twenty years from now? 100? When?

[dubnut]

Jaysus Hardy he just said the day was worth noting, wasnt calling for a parade or anything.
I would equally if not more so welcome a post commemorating an anniversary of the peace process or a particular sustained ceasefire.

It just really bugs me that its so un "PC" to even mention anything bad about the Brits past behaviour without being accused of living in the past.

A balance between remembering and moving on needs to be found, theres no way of progressing with just one or the other.

The guy mentioned the day was worth noting and was basically told to stop living in the past.
I am very interested in what happened back then, as with what happened in 1916 and these things SHOULD be remembered.
But I also am looking toward the future and hoping the current political situation can be resolved.

There seems to be a tendancy to split people into 2 categories.

1) living in the past and need to look forward.
2) only interested in now and no interest in past events.

Surely neither of the above are ideal, we need more people in between the two extremes

[cville]

My point is that the original post was bordering on the rabid ... Fine Michael Hogan's anniversary is today, but I feel that there has been a revisionism in some circles as to how such events are marked.. There seems to be a attitude south of the border as to what can now be glorified. Didn't hear much glorification regarding the Collins' assassination squad while the trouble was ongoing up here! Twenty years ago Hogan was hardly mentioned. If you read the Sunday Times last weekend you would have seen a 'rabid' article on the tour at Croker giving a piece on Bloody Sunday! Well if the English media want to portray us as bogmen glorifying the past, well the first outburst on this subject fell right into that trap... This notion of Bad Brits etc is only playing up to the stereotype that the English media want us to be! The fact is that Hogan's dead ... Bloody Sunday's history ... the four-pint patriots are full of b******t .. Now then - a cliche is a 'tired' phrase that adds nothing to a sentence and my point is made! Also, I blame Liam Neeson or the Earl of Kildare (is that far enough back)?

[dubnut]

Ah Cville, lay off poor aul Liam Neeson.
He was just trying to put bread on the table! 

[cville]

No Liam Neeson deserves it! I have recently saw 'The Mission' again and he was like a big Ballymena farmer in the Amazon! Did you ever hear about the tale of him and De Niro doing the pubs in the Glens of Antrim and nobody recognised the great one! "Oh this is my friend Bob!" "Who?"

[Onlooker]

I can not see how any one with an interest in the GAA should suggest that Bloody Sunday should not be remembered.  To suggest that no one knew who Michael Hogan was until the film starring Liam Neeson was made is complete nonsense.  The Hogan Stand in Croke Park ensures that his name will always be remembered.   It is a part of our history, that British forces turned their guns on the players and crowd at a football match between Tipperary and Dublin.  I can assure Cville that everyone in Tipperary is well aware of what happened that day.  That is why for me, there is a special feel in Croke Park, when Tipperary footballers play there and I think that all genuine GAA followers feel the same, when they watch their own county playing there.  That feeling will always be there no matter how many soccer or rugby internationals are played there.  Croke Park on a big GAA day will always be special.

[dubnut]

Onlooker, you know that and I know that.
But some people just like to be controversial in their arguments.

[thegael]

the problem is too many people read the sunday independent!

to understand the present we need to appreciate the past.

[cville]

Sorry, bollocks to the indo, which Republican paper in the 26 do you read? What I mean is that there have been plenty of GAA men shot up here in pursuit of the games. M Hogan is not exclusive. Typical Free Staters - all sound like Bono - choosing who to glorify while on the doorstep throughout 30 years many Hogan's were emulated. I refer you again to the rose tinted glasses of the original post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dubnut]

Cville, its the anniversary of Hogans death.
You post up here on the anniversary of any northern GAA man killed in "pursuit of the games" & you will find most people will give similar respect.

Chill out

[cville]

Topic closed as far as I am concerned ... Only getting into 'whatabouteries;

[dubnut]

Cville, bullshit.
You know I'm right.