Brexit.

[LCohen]

What double standard?

[trueblue1234]

Well this is my view of Democracy. A party sets out what it's agenda is and seeks an electoral mandate. At a subsequent election it is judged on how it has delivered.

If you want an Irish government to plan for a UI then vote for politicians that say that is what they intend to do.

This was your post. (Which I agree with). And would be one of the reasons why I believe SF can't now decide to take their seats without being undemocratic.
you've since muddied the water a bit but the reality is those are the two options. So for me it's a no brained for SF.

[PMG1]

I don't know why we are getting so worried about the impact a SF vote in parliament would have. SF's primary aim is a united Ireland, leaving things as they are at the minute and watching the British get into a mess like they are is quite clearly the best way they can forward their aim at the minute. The Tories throwing DUP under the bus which is inevitable the way things are going currently is the ideal scenario for SF so they are quite happy to sit back as they are currently doing. I am not a SF lover by the way but a united Ireland is definitely something I would like to be part of in the near future

[LCohen]

Well this is my view of Democracy. A party sets out what it's agenda is and seeks an electoral mandate. At a subsequent election it is judged on how it has delivered.

If you want an Irish government to plan for a UI then vote for politicians that say that is what they intend to do.

This was your post. (Which I agree with). And would be one of the reasons why I believe SF can't now decide to take their seats without being undemocratic.
you've since muddied the water a bit but the reality is those are the two options. So for me it's a no brained for SF.

But you chose not to repeat my posts on either
A) competing principles and
B) having to do things you don't want to for the greater good

To make it easier for you I will repeat.

Abstentionism is one of SF's principles. Most politicians have or claim to have a principle of doing the right thing by their constituents. If SF do not share the latter principle then let's call that out. If they do have that principle the a situation is looming where 2 principles are in conflict. When that happens you have a decision to make and are in turn accountable for that decision. Same for everyone.

Republicanism is completely signed up to the fact that this conflict between principles exists. It is the essence of their justification of an armed struggle.

So the challenge on Brexit and specifically a no Deal very much lies at SF's door. Nothing you or SF have said shifts that challenge on from where it currently lies - at SF's doors

[LCohen]

I don't know why we are getting so worried about the impact a SF vote in parliament would have. SF's primary aim is a united Ireland, leaving things as they are at the minute and watching the British get into a mess like they are is quite clearly the best way they can forward their aim at the minute. The Tories throwing DUP under the bus which is inevitable the way things are going currently is the ideal scenario for SF so they are quite happy to sit back as they are currently doing. I am not a SF lover by the way but a united Ireland is definitely something I would like to be part of in the near future

That is ok if SF are clear and upfront about. If SF are open that a UI trumps everything else and there is no financial cost to ordinary individuals north and south that they view as too high a price then they need to campaign on that basis

[screenexile]

Who the f**k else are Republicans gonna vote for even if SF do take their seats to vote against a No Deal Brexit???!!

Son Fein have done loads of worse shit than actually look after the needs of their constituents... Pledge allegiance to the Queen??

McGuinness shook her f**king hand get off your high horse an help out the people who voted for you. God knows you've done nothing for anyone in the North for years!!

[trueblue1234]

Well this is my view of Democracy. A party sets out what it's agenda is and seeks an electoral mandate. At a subsequent election it is judged on how it has delivered.

If you want an Irish government to plan for a UI then vote for politicians that say that is what they intend to do.

This was your post. (Which I agree with). And would be one of the reasons why I believe SF can't now decide to take their seats without being undemocratic.
you've since muddied the water a bit but the reality is those are the two options. So for me it's a no brained for SF.

But you chose not to repeat my posts on either
A) competing principles and
B) having to do things you don't want to for the greater good

To make it easier for you I will repeat.

Abstentionism is one of SF's principles. Most politicians have or claim to have a principle of doing the right thing by their constituents. If SF do not share the latter principle then let's call that out. If they do have that principle the a situation is looming where 2 principles are in conflict. When that happens you have a decision to make and are in turn accountable for that decision. Same for everyone.

Republicanism is completely signed up to the fact that this conflict between principles exists. It is the essence of their justification of an armed struggle.

So the challenge on Brexit and specifically a no Deal very much lies at SF's door. Nothing you or SF have said shifts that challenge on from where it currently lies - at SF's doors

I agree with most of the above. However absenteeism is a core policy for SF. To give it up, changes the entire outlook of the party. I understand competing principles. But you are looking to change one of the most core elements of the party on the back of a gamble that it might make a difference. Not logical in my eyes.

[tyrone08]

Well this is my view of Democracy. A party sets out what it's agenda is and seeks an electoral mandate. At a subsequent election it is judged on how it has delivered.

If you want an Irish government to plan for a UI then vote for politicians that say that is what they intend to do.

This was your post. (Which I agree with). And would be one of the reasons why I believe SF can't now decide to take their seats without being undemocratic.
you've since muddied the water a bit but the reality is those are the two options. So for me it's a no brained for SF.

But you chose not to repeat my posts on either
A) competing principles and
B) having to do things you don't want to for the greater good

To make it easier for you I will repeat.

Abstentionism is one of SF's principles. Most politicians have or claim to have a principle of doing the right thing by their constituents. If SF do not share the latter principle then let's call that out. If they do have that principle the a situation is looming where 2 principles are in conflict. When that happens you have a decision to make and are in turn accountable for that decision. Same for everyone.

Republicanism is completely signed up to the fact that this conflict between principles exists. It is the essence of their justification of an armed struggle.

So the challenge on Brexit and specifically a no Deal very much lies at SF's door. Nothing you or SF have said shifts that challenge on from where it currently lies - at SF's doors

I agree with most of the above. However absenteeism is a core policy for SF. To give it up, changes the entire outlook of the party. I understand competing principles. But you are looking to change one of the most core elements of the party on the back of a gamble that it might make a difference. Not logical in my eyes.

As someone else said SF core policy went out the window when Martin shook the the queens hand. They can no longer take the stance against the uk involvement in northern ireland when they take their money meet with the heads of state. SF need to grow up and act for the people of ni and not just themselves.

What point is there their to sit back and blame dup when the whole of ni is in the shit and say we told you so without offering any alternatives

[Wildweasel74]

People vote for SF because they are SF, their policies or f**king lack of don't come into it. At the minute the UK only hear the DUP voice in Westminster. Hermon simply outnumbered as the voice of reason. Probably don't think the majority in n Ireland don't have an issue with brexit or they actually turn up and state their case, All the rumblings and standing up to the UK come from down south to fight our corner. It is literally  lost on me why people vote DUP and SF, and a UI will only happen through votes from the middle ground so that's why I know it never happy in my lifetime, probably why it doesn't bother me anymore.

[trueblue1234]

Well this is my view of Democracy. A party sets out what it's agenda is and seeks an electoral mandate. At a subsequent election it is judged on how it has delivered.

If you want an Irish government to plan for a UI then vote for politicians that say that is what they intend to do.

This was your post. (Which I agree with). And would be one of the reasons why I believe SF can't now decide to take their seats without being undemocratic.
you've since muddied the water a bit but the reality is those are the two options. So for me it's a no brained for SF.

But you chose not to repeat my posts on either
A) competing principles and
B) having to do things you don't want to for the greater good

To make it easier for you I will repeat.

Abstentionism is one of SF's principles. Most politicians have or claim to have a principle of doing the right thing by their constituents. If SF do not share the latter principle then let's call that out. If they do have that principle the a situation is looming where 2 principles are in conflict. When that happens you have a decision to make and are in turn accountable for that decision. Same for everyone.

Republicanism is completely signed up to the fact that this conflict between principles exists. It is the essence of their justification of an armed struggle.

So the challenge on Brexit and specifically a no Deal very much lies at SF's door. Nothing you or SF have said shifts that challenge on from where it currently lies - at SF's doors

I agree with most of the above. However absenteeism is a core policy for SF. To give it up, changes the entire outlook of the party. I understand competing principles. But you are looking to change one of the most core elements of the party on the back of a gamble that it might make a difference. Not logical in my eyes.

As someone else said SF core policy went out the window when Martin shook the the queens hand. They can no longer take the stance against the uk involvement in northern ireland when they take their money meet with the heads of state. SF need to grow up and act for the people of ni and not just themselves.

What point is there their to sit back and blame dup when the whole of ni is in the shit and say we told you so without offering any alternatives

Really? Not the view I had of it. Had no effect on why the party maintain absenteeism. SF don't get a salary from WM. SF have to act on behalf of their voters who gave them a mandate before anyone else.

[LCohen]

So here is what we now know from trueblue

1) If SF has to chose between Party Principle and constituent welfare constituents can f**k off
2) For SF a UI trumps everything else. No price is too high
3) there is an unexplained belief that SF voters will be shielded from the worst excesses of Brexit or no Deal. That probably needs a bit more explaining from some one
4) SF's whole shared space/shared future pretence is exactly that. If you don't vote SF you can f**k off

Illuminating day.

[trueblue1234]

So here is what we now know from trueblue

1) If SF has to chose between Party Principle and constituent welfare constituents can f**k off
2) For SF a UI trumps everything else. No price is too high
3) there is an unexplained belief that SF voters will be shielded from the worst excesses of Brexit or no Deal. That probably needs a bit more explaining from some one
4) SF's whole shared space/shared future pretence is exactly that. If you don't vote SF you can f**k off

Illuminating day.

I really don't know where to begin with that.

[LCohen]

So here is what we now know from trueblue

1) If SF has to chose between Party Principle and constituent welfare constituents can f**k off
2) For SF a UI trumps everything else. No price is too high
3) there is an unexplained belief that SF voters will be shielded from the worst excesses of Brexit or no Deal. That probably needs a bit more explaining from some one
4) SF's whole shared space/shared future pretence is exactly that. If you don't vote SF you can f**k off

Illuminating day.

I really don't know where to begin with that.

We know

[trueblue1234]

So here is what we now know from trueblue

1) If SF has to chose between Party Principle and constituent welfare constituents can f**k off
2) For SF a UI trumps everything else. No price is too high
3) there is an unexplained belief that SF voters will be shielded from the worst excesses of Brexit or no Deal. That probably needs a bit more explaining from some one
4) SF's whole shared space/shared future pretence is exactly that. If you don't vote SF you can f**k off

Illuminating day.

I really don't know where to begin with that.

We know

The posts are there for everyone. Verbal somersaults and all.

[LCohen]

So here is what we now know from trueblue

1) If SF has to chose between Party Principle and constituent welfare constituents can f**k off
2) For SF a UI trumps everything else. No price is too high
3) there is an unexplained belief that SF voters will be shielded from the worst excesses of Brexit or no Deal. That probably needs a bit more explaining from some one
4) SF's whole shared space/shared future pretence is exactly that. If you don't vote SF you can f**k off

Illuminating day.

I really don't know where to begin with that.

We know

The posts are there for everyone. Verbal somersaults and all.

Yes the posts there. No verbal somersault on my part. Every step explained and repeated for those slow on the uptake. No issues avoided or evaded on my part. As anyone who reads the posts will no doubt see