Jamie Clarke,the GAA's answer to Stephen Ireland?

[Applesisapples]

Its not just the ethos of the organisation its actually the rules of the organisation.

If a large number of people are openly flouting both the rules and a core element of the ethos of the organisation what do you think the organisation should do?

I know it's the rules and believe it or not I am not arguing with you. It happens and is happening? The Gaa can try all they want and probably do but like the supposedly closed season the rule is the easy part, the policing of it the harder. Like those in cars driving on the red diesel or not declaring all incomes, brown envelopes , magnets on the electricity metres to name but a few . All against the rules but like managers being paid, it happens. The bottom line is , we can all speculate as to who is being paid and how much they are being paid, by whom and when. Rumour had it McGeeney was getting a fortune in Kildare. I am sure there are those in Armagh and outside who think he is getting a fortune with the Orchard county. I don't know, nor will I, or you for that matter ,ever find out exactly but as far as I am concerned my club doesn't pay for him. Anyway it's probably of the topic of the thread and I respect your opinion on it.

Do you really think the GAA are doing everything they can to stop this? Its pure hypocrisy by the ruke makers/enforcers and those organising the payments and taking th payments.

It's like the drug scene, the only way to control it is to regulate it, but as legalising drugs would be seen as undermining society so to legalising paid coaches would be seen to undermine amateur status.

[Orchard Officer]

Not sure what light it shines on the discussion about the comparison of the top of the club tree with the bottom of the county but a Kildare second string tanked Cross at the weekend - they hadn't scored at half time

[No wides]

Can you post the full line ups of both teams?

[smelmoth]

Its not just the ethos of the organisation its actually the rules of the organisation.

If a large number of people are openly flouting both the rules and a core element of the ethos of the organisation what do you think the organisation should do?

I know it's the rules and believe it or not I am not arguing with you. It happens and is happening? The Gaa can try all they want and probably do but like the supposedly closed season the rule is the easy part, the policing of it the harder. Like those in cars driving on the red diesel or not declaring all incomes, brown envelopes , magnets on the electricity metres to name but a few . All against the rules but like managers being paid, it happens. The bottom line is , we can all speculate as to who is being paid and how much they are being paid, by whom and when. Rumour had it McGeeney was getting a fortune in Kildare. I am sure there are those in Armagh and outside who think he is getting a fortune with the Orchard county. I don't know, nor will I, or you for that matter ,ever find out exactly but as far as I am concerned my club doesn't pay for him. Anyway it's probably of the topic of the thread and I respect your opinion on it.

Do you really think the GAA are doing everything they can to stop this? Its pure hypocrisy by the ruke makers/enforcers and those organising the payments and taking th payments.

It's like the drug scene, the only way to control it is to regulate it, but as legalising drugs would be seen as undermining society so to legalising paid coaches would be seen to undermine amateur status.

Paying coaches would be seen to undermine amateur status? Yes it probably would

[Hardy]

Its not just the ethos of the organisation its actually the rules of the organisation.

If a large number of people are openly flouting both the rules and a core element of the ethos of the organisation what do you think the organisation should do?

I know it's the rules and believe it or not I am not arguing with you. It happens and is happening? The Gaa can try all they want and probably do but like the supposedly closed season the rule is the easy part, the policing of it the harder. Like those in cars driving on the red diesel or not declaring all incomes, brown envelopes , magnets on the electricity metres to name but a few . All against the rules but like managers being paid, it happens. The bottom line is , we can all speculate as to who is being paid and how much they are being paid, by whom and when. Rumour had it McGeeney was getting a fortune in Kildare. I am sure there are those in Armagh and outside who think he is getting a fortune with the Orchard county. I don't know, nor will I, or you for that matter ,ever find out exactly but as far as I am concerned my club doesn't pay for him. Anyway it's probably of the topic of the thread and I respect your opinion on it.

Do you really think the GAA are doing everything they can to stop this? Its pure hypocrisy by the ruke makers/enforcers and those organising the payments and taking th payments.

It's like the drug scene, the only way to control it is to regulate it, but as legalising drugs would be seen as undermining society so to legalising paid coaches would be seen to undermine amateur status.

Paying coaches would be seen to undermine amateur status? Yes it probably would

Only if coaches are required to be amateurs. I don't think that requirement exists in any of the rules I've read. There's nothing in the rules that says you can't hire and pay bus drivers, physios, psychologists, grass cutting contractors, functional movement consultants or other service providers. Why single out the providers of the most important service (training the team) as the only ones to be required to work for nothing? And what interpretation of the rules singles out coaches as the only service providers to be equated with players as being subject to the rules of amateurism, while all other non-playing service providers are allowed to be paid?

The idea that paying trainers/coaches undermines the amateur ideal for players is just nonsense.

[No wides]

The idea that paying trainers/coaches undermines the amateur ideal for players is just nonsense.

Not if the professional coach demands / expect their professional level of commitment from an amateur player with a full time job.

[DuffleKing]

The idea that paying trainers/coaches undermines the amateur ideal for players is just nonsense.

Not if the professional coach demands / expect their professional level of commitment from an amateur player with a full time job.

Are amateur coaches entitled to ask for professional standards from players?

By the way, there isn't a county team in Ireland never mind a club team training in the manner of professional sportsmen. If you think any team is you're deluded.

There are county teams pushing beyond the physical and recovery limits of what can be done within an amateur environment but don't confuse that with training professionally.

[general_lee]

The difference being of course, that professionals are paid to rest, relax and recover.

[No wides]

The difference being of course, that professionals are paid to rest, relax and recover.

Nail on head they don'y have to do all the professional training that is required / expected of them through the confines of prior to a days work or after a days work.

[Hardy]

To revisit my post above. The rules may be interpreted as prohibiting all members of the association from being paid. This is the relevant part of Rule 1.10:

A player, team,official or member shall not accept payment
in cash or in kind in conjunction with the playing of Gaelic
Games.

If you consider training the team as being "in conjunction" with playing then coaches can't be paid. But I think the other interpretation is more correct - you can't get paid for playing.

Either way, my point stands. If a club or county hires somebody to cut the grass, nobody expects them to make sure he's not a GAA member, so that he can be paid.

[deiseach]

Unless I've missed something, the official interpretation of the rules seems pretty clear to me - you can't get paid for managing a team. The fuss when John Evans tried to combine coaching Tipperary with being the director of football for the county sorted that one out. Maybe things have changed since?

[Hardy]

I know that's the official interpretation. I think the wording of the rule, though, is capable of an interpretation that the ban on pay applies only to players.

[smelmoth]

To revisit my post above. The rules may be interpreted as prohibiting all members of the association from being paid. This is the relevant part of Rule 1.10:

A player, team,official or member shall not accept payment
in cash or in kind in conjunction with the playing of Gaelic
Games.

If you consider training the team as being "in conjunction" with playing then coaches can't be paid. But I think the other interpretation is more correct - you can't get paid for playing.

Either way, my point stands. If a club or county hires somebody to cut the grass, nobody expects them to make sure he's not a GAA member, so that he can be paid.

Receiving payment in return for managing a team is definitively against the rules of the GAA. If you want to pick holes in the wording of the current ruling then the wording could be tightened. But the intent of the ruling is clear. The important thing is that receiving the payment is the breach. Who pays the manager is of no importance when deciding whether a breach has occurred.

Nothing is done to enforce this rule. And that is not because the rule is unenforceable.

[T Fearon]

I see Jamie delayed his departure until last weekend in order that he could play for a local soccer team in a Junior Cup Final! What a loyal Armagh Gael.

[Jinxy]

Is this lad basically the hipster equivalent of Seanie Johnston?