Teachers get it handy!

Started by wherefromreferee?, June 20, 2008, 08:49:07 AM

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Milltown Row2

So would you say someone teaching with a degree in math, and a post grad in teaching should not be teaching?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Poc me

I wasn't really gonna weigh in on this because i am a teacher and have gone the route of the 3 year grad, then MA, then i year post grad. Now in terms of which route produces better I have to be honest and say that it doesn't matter a damn which route you take, it really depends on the individual. A good teacher will shine through whichever route they choose. I've seen crap teachers from the post grad route and crap teachers from the 4 year route. and vice versa for good teachers.

Now on the issue of teachers getting i handy. Holidays are absolutely fantastic. No doubt about it. The summer is such a great time to be a teacher. Other holidays during the year though do tend to be littered with marking and reports. I like to think that the summer holidays are basically overtime pay for the nights spent working til 9 or 10 or to be honest (overtime isn't paid otherwise). i've spent many a night into the wee hours...granted not every teacher is like this but the dedicated ones are like this. There are teachers and many other professionals who do very little work and it generally reflects in their final product.

I'm currently on a long sub and had last week off, but because i was a sub ( i get paid by the day) I didn't get paid for that time off, yet i was marking tests, coursework and reading up on different subjects simply to enhance knowledge. I wouldn't complain about it, i just do it because it has to be done. Hopefully it shows a few doubters that teachers don't simply work 9 to half 3 or whatever and go home.


Puckoon

Quote from: Poc me on February 23, 2011, 10:20:45 PM
i've spent many a night into the wee hours...granted not every teacher is like this but the dedicated ones are like this. There are teachers and many other professionals who do very little work and it generally reflects in their final product.

I'm currently on a long sub and had last week off, but because i was a sub ( i get paid by the day) I didn't get paid for that time off, yet i was marking tests, coursework and reading up on different subjects simply to enhance knowledge.

Phoc that.

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2011, 09:42:55 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on February 23, 2011, 09:25:17 PM
I have one and it has been shite all use to me so far.

Mine was plenty of use to me, even though I ended up working in a different field from what my degree was in. Landed me a job in California eventually. The company helped me to relocate and sorted out my visa for me. None of this would have happened if I didn't have a degree. Fact.

I know some people who got degrees and couldn't do much with them, but that's down to where they live. If you live in a decent sized city then there's plenty more options open to you.
and you think those without degrees are flipping burgers in McDonald's?
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Just Puck It

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
Question, who makes better teachers? Ones who do the post grad or the ones who go to training school?

In my opinion the students who go to a training college, (Stranmillis or St Mary's in the North) are set well ahead in terms of preparation for becoming a teacher.  St Mary's students spend over a third of their time each year in an intensive placement situation, with continuous observation and assessment - over a four year course. 

Although students who do the PGCE do have an intensive year of work alongside a number of intensive placements, it's only one year.  They have no time to develop skills in comparison to those at the training college.  Should you be at St Mary's and make the discovery in your first year that you find classroom management to be tough, you have another three years to perfect and develop your skills - likewise for any other teaching skills/strategies. 

Just my opinion - open to debate - this could make for a more interesting discussion than whether or not teachers get it handy!

Big Puff

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2011, 10:18:47 PM
So would you say someone teaching with a degree in math, and a post grad in teaching should not be teaching?

Depends what they are teaching obviously enough  ::)

Poc me

Quote from: Just Puck It on February 23, 2011, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
Question, who makes better teachers? Ones who do the post grad or the ones who go to training school?

In my opinion the students who go to a training college, (Stranmillis or St Mary's in the North) are set well ahead in terms of preparation for becoming a teacher.  St Mary's students spend over a third of their time each year in an intensive placement situation, with continuous observation and assessment - over a four year course. 

Although students who do the PGCE do have an intensive year of work alongside a number of intensive placements, it's only one year.  They have no time to develop skills in comparison to those at the training college.  Should you be at St Mary's and make the discovery in your first year that you find classroom management to be tough, you have another three years to perfect and develop your skills - likewise for any other teaching skills/strategies. 

Just my opinion - open to debate - this could make for a more interesting discussion than whether or not teachers get it handy!

Your right on one thing, it is a more interesting discussion than that other myth. You get things as handy as you want them!

I wouldn't agree though on the route of your degree. It really balances itself out, the degree route gives you a higher level of expertise in your subject area but obviously the teaching intensive course at St. Mary's etc. gives you a stronger insight into the teaching profession. In saying that, i maintain that teaching is a natural thing for some people and it wouldn't matter if they did a post grad or 4 year course they would still be a good teacher. Teaching is still avocation for the best teachers.

Milltown Row2

But would it be fair that some with a degree in math and a year PGCE course, have more knowledge in that subject so in turn would be better placed to teach it?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Rois

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2011, 10:34:00 PM
But would it be fair that some with a degree in math and a year PGCE course, have more knowledge in that subject so in turn would be better placed to teach it?
Only if we're talking about a higher level than, say, primary. Aren't most St Mary's degrees in Primary Ed? For secondary and particularly A Level, would agree with you. 
Heard a story from my sis (English teacher in a Belfast Grammar) - a new English teacher in her dept confessed to the librarian that she hated reading and hadn't read a book for fun since uni. Shocking! As an accountant I need to do CPD to ensure I keep qualified - please tell me teachers do too.

Puck, on your point, you can actually take the accounting technician route to becoming chartered, you don't actually need a degree!

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Poc me on February 23, 2011, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: Just Puck It on February 23, 2011, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
Question, who makes better teachers? Ones who do the post grad or the ones who go to training school?

In my opinion the students who go to a training college, (Stranmillis or St Mary's in the North) are set well ahead in terms of preparation for becoming a teacher.  St Mary's students spend over a third of their time each year in an intensive placement situation, with continuous observation and assessment - over a four year course. 

Although students who do the PGCE do have an intensive year of work alongside a number of intensive placements, it's only one year.  They have no time to develop skills in comparison to those at the training college.  Should you be at St Mary's and make the discovery in your first year that you find classroom management to be tough, you have another three years to perfect and develop your skills - likewise for any other teaching skills/strategies. 

Just my opinion - open to debate - this could make for a more interesting discussion than whether or not teachers get it handy!

Your right on one thing, it is a more interesting discussion than that other myth. You get things as handy as you want them!

I wouldn't agree though on the route of your degree. It really balances itself out, the degree route gives you a higher level of expertise in your subject area but obviously the teaching intensive course at St. Mary's etc. gives you a stronger insight into the teaching profession. In saying that, i maintain that teaching is a natural thing for some people and it wouldn't matter if they did a post grad or 4 year course they would still be a good teacher. Teaching is still avocation for the best teachers.

I agree that teaching is not for everyone?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Eamonnca1

Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 23, 2011, 10:24:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2011, 09:42:55 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on February 23, 2011, 09:25:17 PM
I have one and it has been shite all use to me so far.

Mine was plenty of use to me, even though I ended up working in a different field from what my degree was in. Landed me a job in California eventually. The company helped me to relocate and sorted out my visa for me. None of this would have happened if I didn't have a degree. Fact.

I know some people who got degrees and couldn't do much with them, but that's down to where they live. If you live in a decent sized city then there's plenty more options open to you.
and you think those without degrees are flipping burgers in McDonald's?
Take the "burger flipping" comment up with the man who made it. It wasn't me.

Just Puck It

Quote from: Poc me on February 23, 2011, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: Just Puck It on February 23, 2011, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
Question, who makes better teachers? Ones who do the post grad or the ones who go to training school?

In my opinion the students who go to a training college, (Stranmillis or St Mary's in the North) are set well ahead in terms of preparation for becoming a teacher.  St Mary's students spend over a third of their time each year in an intensive placement situation, with continuous observation and assessment - over a four year course. 

Although students who do the PGCE do have an intensive year of work alongside a number of intensive placements, it's only one year.  They have no time to develop skills in comparison to those at the training college.  Should you be at St Mary's and make the discovery in your first year that you find classroom management to be tough, you have another three years to perfect and develop your skills - likewise for any other teaching skills/strategies. 

Just my opinion - open to debate - this could make for a more interesting discussion than whether or not teachers get it handy!

Your right on one thing, it is a more interesting discussion than that other myth. You get things as handy as you want them!

I wouldn't agree though on the route of your degree. It really balances itself out, the degree route gives you a higher level of expertise in your subject area but obviously the teaching intensive course at St. Mary's etc. gives you a stronger insight into the teaching profession. In saying that, i maintain that teaching is a natural thing for some people and it wouldn't matter if they did a post grad or 4 year course they would still be a good teacher. Teaching is still avocation for the best teachers.

Just as we were on the topic, I had a word with someone I know who is currently a student of St Mary's.  She said that the time they spend each week in their own subject area is actually close if not equal to that of what her friends do at Queens, doing the same subject.  She also said that the primary and secondary students in each department do the exact same course - not sure if this is a good or bad thing?  It obviously means that the primary students are doing more than enough in their field, but are the secondary students being catered for?  Suppose it keeps the options open for primary teachers to teach in secondary once they qualify.

I sometimes think that the PGCE route to teaching can be a bit of an insult to the profession?  I'm not tarring at teachers who go through the PCGE route with the same brush as some of them make excellent teachers, but it seems to me that some people who graduate with a degree decide to go down the PCGE route as soon as they can't get a job?


pintsofguinness

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 23, 2011, 10:24:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2011, 09:42:55 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on February 23, 2011, 09:25:17 PM
I have one and it has been shite all use to me so far.

Mine was plenty of use to me, even though I ended up working in a different field from what my degree was in. Landed me a job in California eventually. The company helped me to relocate and sorted out my visa for me. None of this would have happened if I didn't have a degree. Fact.

I know some people who got degrees and couldn't do much with them, but that's down to where they live. If you live in a decent sized city then there's plenty more options open to you.
and you think those without degrees are flipping burgers in McDonald's?
Take the "burger flipping" comment up with the man who made it. It wasn't me.
Why don't you answer the question.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Eamonnca1

I'm damned if I know why I'm being asked this, but no, I don't think anyone without a degree is flipping burgers in McDonalds. Happy now?  ::)

tyssam5

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2011, 01:30:08 AM
I'm damned if I know why I'm being asked this, but no, I don't think anyone without a degree is flipping burgers in McDonalds. Happy now?  ::)

The burger-flippers in McDonald's get it handy, them bad-boys are cooked simultaneously on both sides! The art of the flipper is not like the old days.