Removal of Gaza flag in Croke Park!

[Aoise]

Aoise....I appreciate being able to have an adult dialogue with you on this. Obviously were viewing it through different lenses. Regardless , good luck with it however it turns out

Thanks Whitey, I appreciate that!  It is meant as no offence to anyone.  Just a small illustration of my contempt at our Governments doing nothing.

[Hardy]

It's fairly simple. What do you think would happen if the GAA set a precedent of allowing political demonstrations, however worthy the cause in this particular case? How, then could they decide in any future event that another demonstration, however unworthy, should be prevented? Conduct a poll of the attendance on the particular day?

It's clearly reasonable that the GAA executive, as mandated either by Congress or by assumed responsibility for such decision by virtue of their management role, is making a reasonable decision that the only sensible course of action is to ban all political demonstrations. If you disagree, put a motion on the agenda for your next club AGM. But what would it say? All demonstrations are allowed? Only pro-Palestinian ones? What about pro-Ukrainian ones? What about Syria?

Alternatively, organise a demonstration OUTSIDE Croke Park next Sunday against Israeli barbarity in Gaza. I'd join you if I could make it.

Hardy I know what you're saying.  However, and maybe this is where we disagree but I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park.  Regardless of management elites, the GAA is not an elite organisation (yet).  I have no problem if someone wants to make their voice heard on an issue - do so. If I don't agree with it, I just don't fly that flag, its simple.  Are we not mature enough as a nation to allow freedom of expression?  Why would you want to ban that?  Its like saying well sure everyone in the GAA should just remain neutral at all times - we are all human beings with opinions.  Thats like saying Donal Og Cusack should not have came out in defense of his homosexuality.  Why?  Are we all so delicate?

You don't see the possibility of mayhem, chaos and madness if everybody can use Croke Park on match day as his own personal soap box?

[Hardy]

This is a humanitarian cause, not a political one

OK - replace "political" with "humanitarian" in my post and the same logic applies. You can't have free-for-all demonstrations or a play-it-by-ear policy. I don't think the GAA is being callous about Gaza and I don't buy the shite about not offending Sky. It's simply the only tenable policy.

[Aoise]

It's fairly simple. What do you think would happen if the GAA set a precedent of allowing political demonstrations, however worthy the cause in this particular case? How, then could they decide in any future event that another demonstration, however unworthy, should be prevented? Conduct a poll of the attendance on the particular day?

It's clearly reasonable that the GAA executive, as mandated either by Congress or by assumed responsibility for such decision by virtue of their management role, is making a reasonable decision that the only sensible course of action is to ban all political demonstrations. If you disagree, put a motion on the agenda for your next club AGM. But what would it say? All demonstrations are allowed? Only pro-Palestinian ones? What about pro-Ukrainian ones? What about Syria?

Alternatively, organise a demonstration OUTSIDE Croke Park next Sunday against Israeli barbarity in Gaza. I'd join you if I could make it.

Hardy I know what you're saying.  However, and maybe this is where we disagree but I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park.  Regardless of management elites, the GAA is not an elite organisation (yet).  I have no problem if someone wants to make their voice heard on an issue - do so. If I don't agree with it, I just don't fly that flag, its simple.  Are we not mature enough as a nation to allow freedom of expression?  Why would you want to ban that?  Its like saying well sure everyone in the GAA should just remain neutral at all times - we are all human beings with opinions.  Thats like saying Donal Og Cusack should not have came out in defense of his homosexuality.  Why?  Are we all so delicate?

You don't seethe possibility of mayhem, chaos and madness if everybody can use Croke Park on match day as his own personal soap box?

Not really, I happen to have faith that we are more of a homogenous, unified and mature community than that.  I doubt that anyone is going to bring a nazi flag into Croke Park anytime soon.  Any other issue and its simply a matter of opinion.  And I agree with you, if people's voices were being heard in other areas, then fine, keep sport separate.  But what have the government done thus far only to ignore what the people are calling for!  The reason it has to be Croke Park, is because it will be the only place whereby they cannot ignore us as the cameras cannot turn away!  If we have a demonstration outside they will continue to laugh up their sleeves and ignore us.  The camera's are inside and thats where me and the flag of Palestine will be.  Anyone doesn't agree, just don't bring one! 

[Rossfan]

I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park. 

It's the GAA's Park. The people have to pay to get in to see games in it.

[Aoise]

I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park. 

It's the GAA's Park. The people have to pay to get in to see games in it.

And what is the GAA if not the people Rossfan?    Has it suddenly turned into a dictatorship that I didn't know had happened?

[Syferus]

I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park. 

It's the GAA's Park. The people have to pay to get in to see games in it.

And what is the GAA if not the people Rossfan?    Has it suddenly turned into a dictatorship that I didn't know had happened?

Why would the GAA having members allow you or anyone else to do what they please? You're a single person. Even here it's pretty murky whether a majority of GAA members agree with your stance on using Croke Park as a staging ground for a demonstration.

They are within their rights to decide if they want to remove any banners they want from their stadium. Surely it's not the first time you've seen a sporting organisation shy away from political statements?

[Aoise]

I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park. 

It's the GAA's Park. The people have to pay to get in to see games in it.

And what is the GAA if not the people Rossfan?    Has it suddenly turned into a dictatorship that I didn't know had happened?

Why would the GAA having members allow you or anyone else to do what they please? You're a single person. Even here it's pretty murky whether a majority of GAA members agree with your stance on using Croke Park as a staging ground for a demonstration.

They are within their rights to decide if they want to remove any banners they want from their stadium. Surely it's not the first time you've seen a sporting organisation shy away from political statements?

But one founded through political activism doing so I would call on it to explain their hypocrisy!  Also, I don't care if the majority of GAA members agree with me.  I am not harming them, nor require their permission to fly a flag.  Just deal with the fact that people have a voice, either collectively or individually and stop trying to take offence where none is intended. 

[rossiewanderer]

I dont support Israel  you complete and utter clown.

Er...yeah...sure you don't.

Israel are the right side in this unfolding tragedy.

No amount of esteemed professional Palestinian protesters in this country who continually quote out of context will convince me otherwise.In fact many of the rabble that constitutes these protests should get people thinking,Hang on a minute here....

Hamas use woman and children as human shields.The civilian death toll they are engineering is
part of a grotesque tactical play to garner international intervention(which will never happen) and to provoke a reaction from the murderously out of control Muslim world.
  Hamas have the blood of their own people on their hands.

  Israel has the right to defend herself.

Hamas are killing their own people,They are responsible for their dead children.They can stop this killing at any time but they prefer to sacrifice their own people and film the wailing cries of publicly
filmed funerals in a callous bid to instigate anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

Where did I state I supported Israel???
Israel had the right to defend itself like any other country under attack.
Israel does not have the right to commit war crimes which I have already stated many times that they have done and which is totally reprehensible but which would not suit your selective agenda

Hamas and the military response by Israel are responsible for dead children and civilians.
So going by your rationale,You Sidney support Hamas,You support using woman and children as human shields,You support suicide bombers,You support using schools to launch rockets.

[rossiewanderer]

People have the right to bring a Palestine, Isreal or british flag into Croke Park if they so wish I do not have a problem with that.
However People do not have the right to bring an IRA or Hamas flag into Croke Park or any other Terrorist flag for that matter.

[HiMucker]

I dont support Israel  you complete and utter clown.

Er...yeah...sure you don't.

Israel are the right side in this unfolding tragedy.

No amount of esteemed professional Palestinian protesters in this country who continually quote out of context will convince me otherwise.In fact many of the rabble that constitutes these protests should get people thinking,Hang on a minute here....

Hamas use woman and children as human shields.The civilian death toll they are engineering is
part of a grotesque tactical play to garner international intervention(which will never happen) and to provoke a reaction from the murderously out of control Muslim world.
  Hamas have the blood of their own people on their hands.

  Israel has the right to defend herself.

Hamas are killing their own people,They are responsible for their dead children.They can stop this killing at any time but they prefer to sacrifice their own people and film the wailing cries of publicly
filmed funerals in a callous bid to instigate anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

Where did I state I supported Israel???
Israel had the right to defend itself like any other country under attack.
Israel does not have the right to commit war crimes which I have already stated many times that they have done and which is totally reprehensible but which would not suit your selective agenda

Hamas and the military response by Israel are responsible for dead children and civilians.
So going by your rationale,You Sidney support Hamas,You support using woman and children as human shields,You support suicide bombers,You support using schools to launch rockets.

I have highlighted in bold the only bit that matters.  Either you have changed your mind on that point, or it is completely reasonable to say you support Israel

[foxcommander]

I hope to God that if our own grandchildren are ever in any war situation, that people will not take your stance because they will be screwed - no disrespect to you, you're entitled to your stance on this.  I just think Ireland has lost a wee bit of its soul and courage more's the pity!

I'd have thought that Israel would be a little more cognisant about the mass slaughter of innocents judging by the trials that have followed since WWII. Does the current conflict revoke their right to continually refer to it?

what happens if someone shows up with an Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag as happened within the last week at other demonstrations Can you imagine the damage that would do to the GAA worldwide?

I wonder will the hawkers outside Croke Park be selling Hezbollah or Hamas flags outside the grounds these weekend?
Sounds like there is a demand on them according to whitey.

Without googling them I'd have no idea what they look like and neither would a TV audience.
Generally people realise that flying emblems in the midst of people who won't appreciate it tend not to do so. Can't imagine walking on the glorious twelfth with a tricolour....

[rossiewanderer]

I dont support Israel  you complete and utter clown.

Er...yeah...sure you don't.

Israel are the right side in this unfolding tragedy.

No amount of esteemed professional Palestinian protesters in this country who continually quote out of context will convince me otherwise.In fact many of the rabble that constitutes these protests should get people thinking,Hang on a minute here....

Hamas use woman and children as human shields.The civilian death toll they are engineering is
part of a grotesque tactical play to garner international intervention(which will never happen) and to provoke a reaction from the murderously out of control Muslim world.
  Hamas have the blood of their own people on their hands.

  Israel has the right to defend herself.

Hamas are killing their own people,They are responsible for their dead children.They can stop this killing at any time but they prefer to sacrifice their own people and film the wailing cries of publicly
filmed funerals in a callous bid to instigate anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

Where did I state I supported Israel???
Israel had the right to defend itself like any other country under attack.
Israel does not have the right to commit war crimes which I have already stated many times that they have done and which is totally reprehensible but which would not suit your selective agenda

Hamas and the military response by Israel are responsible for dead children and civilians.
So going by your rationale,You Sidney support Hamas,You support using woman and children as human shields,You support suicide bombers,You support using schools to launch rockets.

I have highlighted in bold the only bit that matters.  Either you have changed your mind on that point, or it is completely reasonable to say you support Israel

It is completely reasonable to say that you are a muppet.
Over two weeks ago and many posts ago Israel was in the right to defend itself and I still believe that.
Mr Sidney took the time to trawl through my posts over a long period on a personal ego boosting exercise to prove that I am an 'Israel supporter' through quoting me in a selective manner.
I believe the dead children in Gaza are a result of HAMAS actions and ISRAEL raections and since war crimes.

[babarino]

People have the right to bring a Palestine, Isreal or british flag into Croke Park if they so wish I do not have a problem with that.
However People do not have the right to bring an IRA or Hamas flag into Croke Park or any other Terrorist flag for that matter.

What is an IRA flag? Some ridiculously would argue it's a tricolour. 

What's a terrorist? Some would argue Michael Collins was a terrorist.

Why does British not get a capital 'B'? 

[Wildweasel74]

Rossie how about telling us boys from the North what a IRA flag is? cant really figure seeing one living up here all my life, maybe as u living in the cossie wee republic you can tell us what one looks like?