Dublin v Tyrone. 11/02/17. Croke Park, Dublin.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Some of the Tyrone fans on here remind me of Dublin fans in the mid 2000s. Nowhere near a final for  about a  decade,  but somehow convinced they were genuine contenders.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I'm not being defensive at all. Nor have I any interest in personalizing this. I'm sticking to the football.

Based on their making the semi finals, for the past few years, Tyrone are definitely in the top 4 teams in the country.

However, as I said before - based on their inability to beat the two teams that Dublin beat consistantly, I do not think that Tyrone are in a better placed position to beat Dublin, than Mayo or Kerry are. If they were, they would be beating the two teams that give Dublin the hardest time. The fact that they aren't, says that they still have work to do imo. The fact that Tyrone yet to play Dublin in September, does not automatically make Tyrone the main contender to beat Dublin in September, based soley on what has happened in the Spring. I put little store in what happens in the Spring overall. In last last years leage, Mayo were hammered by Cork & Kerry were hammered by the Rossies. Where were Cork and Roscommon in August/September?

But that's not an accurate measure. If you look at Ulster over the past three or four years, Tyrone have struggled with Donegal, Donegal have struggled with Monaghan and Monaghan have struggled with Tyrone. You can't make comparisons between two sides based on their records between other sides. Style wide I feel Tyrone are all wrong for Dublin, the only side to beat Dublin I'm a knockout game in Gavin's reign are Donegal and I think Tyrone are the most similar in style to Donegal.

We do know about Kerry and Mayo vs Gavin's Dublin in Championship football, they came up short on 3 occasions each in the last 4 years. Tyrone have it all to prove but their is no form line to suggest they are the side to or aren't the side to tackle Dublin. What we do know is that there's a form line to say neither Dublin or Kerry are - that's the known. Tyrone are the unknown.

[Il Bomber Destro]

If you are looking where I think you are looking - Then your faith in Tyrone has put a lot of store in beating (a not as good as 2012 model) Donegal side by a last minute point to win an Ulster title! Winning a Division 2 title and drawing with Dublin in a National League Match.

Where would the Mayo confidence stem from? They have failed to beat Kerry under Fitzmaurice and Dublin under Gavin in Championship football. They haven't won an All Ireland in 50 years plus.

[StGallsGAA]

Going by some of the bluster from the Dub fans on here, it looks like the supplies of EPO have been handed out to the supporters as well.   

[tonto1888]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

There is no "factual evidence" on how Leitrim, New York or Antrim get on against Dublin either. So I am not rushing to give anyone a free pass to greatness, just because of this factual lack of evidence, Your Honour.

Not really like for like, Tyrone are a genuine top 4 side and they have caused Dublin problems in their league meetings.

You seem very defensive on the proposition that Tyrone might be the best equipped team to take Dublin.

We know there are three credible threats to Dublin. It's known come championship that Kerry and Dublin have come up short in recent years, it's unknown whether Tyrone would or wouldn't. You seem to trying to validate the unknown as known for some bizarre reason.

Are Tyrone a genuine top 4 side?

[Syferus]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

There is no "factual evidence" on how Leitrim, New York or Antrim get on against Dublin either. So I am not rushing to give anyone a free pass to greatness, just because of this factual lack of evidence, Your Honour.

Not really like for like, Tyrone are a genuine top 4 side and they have caused Dublin problems in their league meetings.

You seem very defensive on the proposition that Tyrone might be the best equipped team to take Dublin.

We know there are three credible threats to Dublin. It's known come championship that Kerry and Dublin have come up short in recent years, it's unknown whether Tyrone would or wouldn't. You seem to trying to validate the unknown as known for some bizarre reason.

Are Tyrone a genuine top 4 side?

Nope.

1. Dublin

...
...
...
...


2. Mayo
3. Kerry

...
...
...
...

4. Logjam

[Il Bomber Destro]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

There is no "factual evidence" on how Leitrim, New York or Antrim get on against Dublin either. So I am not rushing to give anyone a free pass to greatness, just because of this factual lack of evidence, Your Honour.

Not really like for like, Tyrone are a genuine top 4 side and they have caused Dublin problems in their league meetings.

You seem very defensive on the proposition that Tyrone might be the best equipped team to take Dublin.

We know there are three credible threats to Dublin. It's known come championship that Kerry and Dublin have come up short in recent years, it's unknown whether Tyrone would or wouldn't. You seem to trying to validate the unknown as known for some bizarre reason.

Are Tyrone a genuine top 4 side?

Yes.

[Captain Obvious]

The top two are Kerry and Dublin and that will stay the same way until Mayo end their long championship wait for win against Kerry. Tyrone have leapfrogged Donegal into fourth as Donegal are now in transition, in a year or two they could leapfrog Mayo into third postion if Mayo go into transition.

[Taylor]

Top 4 side - absolutely.
And we are improving all the time as witnessed last week.
I would go so far as to say we will be top 2 come September.

God willing we will hold Sam aloft and be number 1 again 

[Beffs]

Jesus, top 2, top 3, top 4, top 5....who cares? It's like two bald men arguing over a comb. At the end of the year, you are either the All Ireland champions, the best team in the country....or you're not. If you're not, you are just making up the numbers. That's all.

Does any one in Kerry or Kilkenny really care if they are considered to be the top 2, 3 or 5 team in the county? They don't. They are either number 1. Or nothing. If you are a Leitrim or a Carlow or a Roscommon ( ) then yeah, it's great to crack the top 8 teams in the country, by making it to Division 1, or the AI quarter finals, or some other quantifiable measure of progress. If you are a genuine contender, you are either an All Ireland champion or you aren't. Everything else is just a number.

Right now, that is Dublin. It may be them again in 2017. But they'll fall back into the chasing pack soon enough, when Cluxton retires, Gavin steps down etc etc....and the whole merry go round will start all over again.

[macdanger2]

Right now, that is Dublin. It may be them again in 2017. But they'll fall back into the chasing pack soon enough, when Cluxton retires, Gavin steps down etc etc....and the whole merry go round will start all over again.

Probably not the thread for it but how good do people consider Gavin to be? For me, he's good but not brilliant. He runs a professional setup and obviously his record is exceptional but apart from the defeat to Donegal, his team have had a few very close shaves - kerry & Mayo last year, Mayo the year before, Kerry & Mayo in 2013. Although he won all those games, I think that with the players he has at his disposal (if they're as good as they're considered and I think they probably are), he should be winning with a bit more comfort.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Jesus, top 2, top 3, top 4, top 5....who cares? It's like two bald men arguing over a comb. At the end of the year, you are either the All Ireland champions, the best team in the country....or you're not. If you're not, you are just making up the numbers. That's all.

An odd departure from you given that you have spent the past few pages defending the order of merit when it comes to challenging Dublin.

[Beffs]

I'm just a humble spectator. I'll talk about anything when I'm bored. Go talk to a Kerry or Kilkenny player. I doubt if any of them really care whether they are deemed to be in the top 2, 3 or 4 teams in the country. No 1 is all that matters to them. If they made it to the final, then yeah, there'd be a sense of satisfaction from winning their semi final, especially if they beat one of their main rivals along the way, but I doubt if they'd really care if anyone considers them to be 2, 3 or 4 in the pecking order. They aren't number 1 and that is all that matters. To them !

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'm just a humble spectator. I'll talk about anything when I'm bored. Go talk to a Kerry or Kilkenny player. I doubt if any of them really care whether they are deemed to be in the top 2, 3 or 4 teams in the country...

But they're the (current) exceptions that prove the rule, surely? They're so accustomed to being, and having recently been, habitual number 1s that they'll quite naturally not be interested in anything but that pinnacle once again. It's a different story when you've been occupying rungs further down the ladder for years, or even forever -- then each incremental on that ladder will assume a significance for the team on the climb, and 4 is probably about right for ourselves right now, on our long path back to dominance once again.

[tonto1888]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

There is no "factual evidence" on how Leitrim, New York or Antrim get on against Dublin either. So I am not rushing to give anyone a free pass to greatness, just because of this factual lack of evidence, Your Honour.

Not really like for like, Tyrone are a genuine top 4 side and they have caused Dublin problems in their league meetings.

You seem very defensive on the proposition that Tyrone might be the best equipped team to take Dublin.

We know there are three credible threats to Dublin. It's known come championship that Kerry and Dublin have come up short in recent years, it's unknown whether Tyrone would or wouldn't. You seem to trying to validate the unknown as known for some bizarre reason.

Are Tyrone a genuine top 4 side?

Yes.

Based on what?
Quarter final last year.
Well beat in semi final the year before
Beat in round 2B in 2014
Doesn't really shout genuine too 4 team to me