Dublin v Tyrone. 11/02/17. Croke Park, Dublin.

[seafoid]

Tyrone can get the ball and proceed with it towards the opposition goal and they can run like the Duracell Bunny and harry and handpass indefinitely but they can't score enough.

It reminds me of a line from John Updike

"So many emergencies, Harry thinks, so much canned laughter, so many actors' tears, all this effort to be happy, to be brave, to be loved, all this wasted effort"

[twohands!!!]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

[From the Bunker]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

Agree with that. They have similar problems to Mayo. They have enough strength to get to the top table. Just not enough to cross the line (yet). Then again a good draw and you are in an AI final and in a one off game anything can happen.

[Fuzzman]

I think a lot depends on how well we use Sean Cavanagh this year. Of course he's not the amazing player he was a few years ago but I just feel we aren't getting enough scores out of him. If we played him a lot more like Kerry use Geaney or Donaghy where he stayed in the scoring range. Too often he's down in our own defence like last Sat night.
He's one of our best kickers of long range points but I feel he doesn't even take on as many shots as he used. We used to say he was too greedy but he's gone a bit like Canavan in his older years and lays a lot of scores off to younger lads.
With him confirming this will be his last year it would be great to see him having an all-star year but getting him to stay on the end of the square is the problem.

[BennyHarp]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

Would Harte, Donnelly and Sludden not be considered top class forwards? The quality is there, just trying to get a system that gets them on the ball in scoring positions is where we are still work in progress.

[Il Bomber Destro]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

Peter Harte has been on the Tyrone panel for about 8 years now. I think it was 2015 when he really started to show his true worth on a consistent basis. Donnelly started to show his in the same years, they were both shunted about positionally for a while which didn't help.

Sometimes it just takes players a long time to settle in, I remember Bernard Brogan really struggling in his initial years with Dublin, he spent a fair chunk of time on the bench in a pretty mediocre Dublin side.

I think Bradley has the ability to really kick on this year and he could possibly show himself as a top class performer but that remains to be seen. How long did it take Conor McManus to really announce himself on the county stage? 2013? He's about 30 now so the first time people really back to take note of him he was about 26?

There's plenty of examples of players who take some time to adapt to county level and show their true worth, some never even do. It's very premature to write off the likes of McCurry (24 this year) and Bradley (23 this year) I feel, they have it all to prove yet and it's a big summer for them but I think they have the potential in them, whether they can get it out of themselves, who knows?

[twohands!!!]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

Would Harte, Donnelly and Sludden not be considered top class forwards? The quality is there, just trying to get a system that gets them on the ball in scoring positions is where we are still work in progress.

I think Harte and Donnelly spend too far away from goal to be considered top class forwards (and for me Harte was the best most consistent footballer player in Ireland in 2016)

Sludden I haven't see a huge amount of but he strikes me as a point a game player. Like the other two he seems to play too far away from goals most of the time.

Maybe if all 3 of these were played in the full-forward line you could make a case for them being top -class forwards (as against that the closer marking might well make them less effective)

The thing is I don't see any chance for a radical change of style from Tyrone that's going to improve things in terms of adopting "a system that gets them on the ball in scoring positions" more.

You can't just bolt an attack onto a team where the over-riding instinct is the defensive one.

[Beffs]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

[Il Bomber Destro]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

[trueblue1234]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

Agree with that. They have similar problems to Mayo. They have enough strength to get to the top table. Just not enough to cross the line (yet). Then again a good draw and you are in an AI final and in a one off game anything can happen.

Is there anyone other than Dublin that is good enough tho? Everyone else is playing catch up as far as I can see. Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Much of a muchness.

[From the Bunker]

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

The thing is that you can generally tell after a couple of games which forwards look like they have the it factor to be a consistent top intercounty forward.

None of the Tyrone lads tried so far out of the newcomers look to have the "it" to be a consistent top forward from the games I've seen.

Tyrone might get lucky in a one-off game but I think far likely is they will be bloody hard to beat and dangerous to the top teams but I don't see a Sam in this team any time soon.

Agree with that. They have similar problems to Mayo. They have enough strength to get to the top table. Just not enough to cross the line (yet). Then again a good draw and you are in an AI final and in a one off game anything can happen.

Is there anyone other than Dublin that is good enough tho? Everyone else is playing catch up as far as I can see. Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Much of a muchness.

That's pretty much it! Plus the added advantages that Dublin hold over rural counties makes it even harder for them to catch up! Cest la vie!

[Beffs]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

There is no "factual evidence" on how Leitrim, New York or Antrim get on against Dublin either. So I am not rushing to give anyone a free pass to greatness, just because of this factual lack of evidence, Your Honour.

[Il Bomber Destro]

This particular Tyrone side have only been around the guts of 2 years.

McShane, Bradley, Meyler, C McCann, McNulty, R Donnelly, R Brennan all debuted in 2015.

Sludden, K McGeary, Munroe, Burns, L Brennan, Hampsey made their debuts in 2016.

The likes of McCann, McNamee and McNabb only really became regulars in 2015 too.

So it's very premature to write them off as the bulk of the side are only on the road a couple of years and have plenty of scope and time to improve.

And we do not know how they will do against Dublin come the championship in summer, despite your protestations otherwise. There is no formline there where as there is with Kerry and Mayo the known vs the unknown.

No, but I can make a pretty educated guess, based on the fact that they have not been able to beat the 2 counties, that Dublin beat every year, of late. I am not protesting anything, nor am I writing anyone off. I am merely going on the factual evidence from the scoreboard at the end of championship games in Croke Park. If Tyrone meet Dublin this year and they beat them, then fair play to them, but there is no great mystery as to why they haven't played each other yet in the championship - Tyrone just haven't been good enough to make it that far. To date. Maybe that will change this summer. Who knows really?

There is no factual evidence when it comes to Tyrone v Dublin in Championship.

It's the known vs the unknown, we can revert back to factual evidence when it comes to Mayo and Kerry in this regard.

There is no "factual evidence" on how Leitrim, New York or Antrim get on against Dublin either. So I am not rushing to give anyone a free pass to greatness, just because of this factual lack of evidence, Your Honour.

Not really like for like, Tyrone are a genuine top 4 side and they have caused Dublin problems in their league meetings.

You seem very defensive on the proposition that Tyrone might be the best equipped team to take Dublin.

We know there are three credible threats to Dublin. It's known come championship that Kerry and Dublin have come up short in recent years, it's unknown whether Tyrone would or wouldn't. You seem to trying to validate the unknown as known for some bizarre reason.

[Beffs]

I'm not being defensive at all. Nor have I any interest in personalizing this. I'm sticking to the football.

Based on their making the semi finals, for the past few years, Tyrone are definitely in the top 4 teams in the country.

However, as I said before - based on their inability to beat the two teams that Dublin beat consistantly, I do not think that Tyrone are in a better placed position to beat Dublin, than Mayo or Kerry are. If they were, they would be beating the two teams that give Dublin the hardest time. The fact that they aren't, says that they still have work to do imo. The fact that Tyrone yet to play Dublin in September, does not automatically make Tyrone the main contender to beat Dublin in September, based soley on what has happened in the Spring. I put little store in what happens in the Spring overall. In last last years leage, Mayo were hammered by Cork & Kerry were hammered by the Rossies. Where were Cork and Roscommon in August/September?

[From the Bunker]

If you are looking where I think you are looking - Then your faith in Tyrone has put a lot of store in beating (a not as good as 2012 model) Donegal side by a last minute point to win an Ulster title! Winning a Division 2 title and drawing with Dublin in a National League Match.