Northern GP crisis

[trailer]

There is a plan to open a medical school in Derry. This would increase the number of doctors generally, but would also increase the number of doctors associated with the area and some could become GPs.
Mind you, even if they manage to do this, it will be decade before it does any good.

That's not the magic bullet you think it is. If the NHS could retain the Doctors and Nurses it already trains that would be far more beneficial than any new medical school.

Yes and no. There is a geographic issue here also.
But both administrations on this island could benefit from reducing the number going to Australia etc and instead attract some Australians to come here.

I've a small bit of experience in a similar area albeit there's a few differences. Australians want to come over surely but they want London, Edinburgh bigger cities usually. Derry or Enniskillen isn't always on their radar.
A medical school is welcome and would be a help no doubt, but it won't solve all the problems around the number of Docs. I think we both agree on that tbf.

[Mario]

Pay them more and encourage more people to do it, the amount of local students that have to go abroad to do medicine is one area they really need to look at. friends daughter had the qualifications to get into Queens and lost out at the interview, went to Newcastle and is now on the Gold coast, lost to another country!

Going to Australia seems like a rite of passage for most medical students, but in my anecdotal experience the vast majority return after a few years (or less). 

[Milltown Row2]

Pay them more and encourage more people to do it, the amount of local students that have to go abroad to do medicine is one area they really need to look at. friends daughter had the qualifications to get into Queens and lost out at the interview, went to Newcastle and is now on the Gold coast, lost to another country!

Going to Australia seems like a rite of passage for most medical students, but in my anecdotal experience the vast majority return after a few years (or less).

Fingers crossed she will, and I hope its to the North rather than England, but ya meet someone and put down roots then its not going to happen

[Kidder81]

The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?

The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.

At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.

Do we not have more spent here on the NHS with much worse outcomes so not sure it's just as straightforward as that

[RedHand88]

The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?

The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.

At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.

People keep blaming the Tories and yes they haven't helped but Health is a devolved matter and we have had no government for the best part of the last 10 years. Reform is badly needed and it simply hasn't been delivered. Blaming the Tories for every ill exonerates the absolute abdication of responsibility from Sinn Fein and the DUP. And when they last had the chance to take the health portfolio they wouldn't go near it leaving it to Robin Swann and the UUP. That's the leadership we have locally. We voted them in and we have got exactly what we voted for.

I have private health insurance for me and my family. I suggest everyone gets the same as the NHS will not be fixed anytime soon either by the Tories or local MLAs.

This. I think people need to look at how career politicians here have been unwilling to take the steps recommended by Bengoa, because they are more interested in parish pump politics.
"We need to close remote centres and centralise our services" doesn't buy many votes, but it is what is needed.

[armaghniac]

The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?

The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.

At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.

Do we not have more spent here on the NHS with much worse outcomes so not sure it's just as straightforward as that

There is less spent on public health in the north than in the 26 counties. However, NI spends more than England with poorer results.

[Kidder81]

The NHS in NI is not at breaking point, it is downright broken at all levels right now.
Doctors, nurses, GPs have so much pressure on them they can't cope and so are leaving their nhs jobs.
The private sector allows them to work with less pressure and get paid more....who wouldn't want that?

The tories have run the NHS ragged and NI being the distant relative was always going to finish up worse off than everywhere else.
I don't know what the answer is.
I'm lucky to have private healthcare for my family through work, something I probably couldn't afford myself.
Mrs. tbrick has recently had multiple surgeries through it, which on the nhs have a 5 year waiting list.

At the minute, any other system of national health care would, in my opinion, be better than what we have today in NI.

Do we not have more spent here on the NHS with much worse outcomes so not sure it's just as straightforward as that

There is less spent on public health in the north than in the 26 counties. However, NI spends more than England with poorer results.

Yeah so the point about us being the "distant relative" is not true. We receive more public funding per head than any area of the UK

[RedHand88]

Incidentally I looked which constituency our last 5 health ministers were from:

Robin Swann - North Antrim
Michelle O'Neill - Mid ulster
Simon Hamilton - Strangford
Jim Wells - South Down
Edwin Poots - Lagan Valley

4 of these are from rural constituencies which would be hard to sell the centralisation model to. Like I said, career politicians....

[pbat]

I'm from South Armagh and I have said for years to close Daisy Hill. Build a good A and E in Newry with trauma facilities to stabilise patients on the site with additional ambulances.Even invested in the Air Ambulance. If your involved in a serious traffic accident or massive heart attack you are shipped to the royal anyway as it is. The male and female medical should be moved to to either Craigavon as well as maternity. The cost of operating a facility the size of Daisy Hill must be huge. This is not a popular opinion around my way but whats the alternatives? SDLP and SF haven't the balls to touch this.

My sister lives in South County Monaghan, her nears hospital is Cavan Town(35miles) or Drogheda(57 miles) but they have services in Monaghan Town to cope with accidents and get you stable to transfer.

[WT4E]

I often wondered. We have prescribing pharmacists in GP surgeries now. These are well educated highly trained medical.professionals could there not be some bridging course for a year or two to train them  to be GPs?

[RedHand88]

I often wondered. We have prescribing pharmacists in GP surgeries now. These are well educated highly trained medical.professionals could there not be some bridging course for a year or two to train them  to be GPs?

Unfortunately not. There's alot more to a GP. Diagnosing being the big thing. Prescribing pharmacists focus on one area eg. Asthma, type 2 diabetes, hypertension.

[Armagh18]

I'm from South Armagh and I have said for years to close Daisy Hill. Build a good A and E in Newry with trauma facilities to stabilise patients on the site with additional ambulances.Even invested in the Air Ambulance. If your involved in a serious traffic accident or massive heart attack you are shipped to the royal anyway as it is. The male and female medical should be moved to to either Craigavon as well as maternity. The cost of operating a facility the size of Daisy Hill must be huge. This is not a popular opinion around my way but whats the alternatives? SDLP and SF haven't the balls to touch this.

My sister lives in South County Monaghan, her nears hospital is Cavan Town(35miles) or Drogheda(57 miles) but they have services in Monaghan Town to cope with accidents and get you stable to transfer.

Daisy Hill along with probably other hospital is not fit for purpose. Agree that the smart move would be to close it but only if you could guarantee top class healthcare in Craigavon. Would be political suicide to suggest it though, even from the pov of the amount of jobs DHH provides to locals, you like me likely have a friend or relative who does/has worked there.

[AustinPowers]

Incidentally I looked which constituency our last 5 health ministers were from:

Robin Swann - North Antrim
Michelle O'Neill - Mid ulster
Simon Hamilton - Strangford
Jim Wells - South Down
Edwin Poots - Lagan Valley

4 of these are from rural constituencies which would be hard to sell the centralisation model to. Like I said, career politicians....

Yeah good point .  Maybe we should leave the running of the north to the  civil servants permanently?

I mean , what use are the politicians?  When it comes down to it , and decisions need making , all they're concerned about is their own seats and big pay packet

[Last Man]

This is an interesting discussion which gets into some of the reasons why the current system is no longer fit for purpose. It's way more than just political decision making.

[brokencrossbar1]

When I was a student in 1997 my girlfriend at the time was a med student. At that time they were planning closing down DH among other hospitals and upgrading Altnagelvin and Craigavon. Create Trauma Centres in the place of the likes of DH like pbat suggested but there was too much push back. It really is the only way to do it. We are far too used to having the big service irrespective of the cost. Less hospitals and more on the ground trauma services would better serve us but it's not popular