Teachers get it handy!

Started by wherefromreferee?, June 20, 2008, 08:49:07 AM

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Hurler on the Bitch

#45
I am one of the sad ones who remembers the time when teachers could kick you up the hole (answer in our house - "you must have deserved it"); punch you in the back of the head; make you wear a dunce's hat all day; grab you down by the hair; and generally humiliate 8, 9 and 10 year olds.. In our wee school a student came in to cover one week and had the habit if punching kids in the face if they could not recite the Soldier Song ... Funny though, I am a great believer in bad Karma and, as far as I know, four of the cnuts died in their late 40s / early 50s  ... goes round, comes around... :'( ..... l

wherefromreferee?

Maybe the thread title should have red 'teachers used to get it handy, but now they don't!'

(Still, the holidays are immense  :P)
In your Endo!

Bensars

Quotenow they don't!
::)


Work from 9 to half 3 with half the year off . It must have been some job in the old days !

TacadoirArdMhacha

QuoteWSE = Whole School Evaluation report?  We have ETI (Education and Training Inspectorate) reports in the North.  They come in  a number of guises.  They can last from three to five days.  The Inspectorate here are pretty mild compared to Ofsted in England.  However with the Every School A Good School paper, if its passed the Inspectors will get more teeth.  Already they are grading schools on a 1 to 6 scale.  Anything below 4 and serious pressure results.
Schools in the North currently have 73 different initiatives to implement.  They have become the spine of society as some other groups and individuals decline to exercise responsibility.

I'd have a brave few family members in teaching and the thing I've never understood is why they have so much notice for inspections. Surely if the inspection is to have any real meaning, it should be on a random basis, i.e. they turn up unannounced and if things aren't up to scratch, tough. Is there still such notice for inspections?
As I dream about movies they won't make of me when I'm dead

wherefromreferee?

Quote from: Bensars on June 25, 2008, 12:58:45 PM
Quotenow they don't!
::)


Work from 9 to half 3 with half the year off . It must have been some job in the old days !

Ha!  No, I was thinking more along the lines of the legal issues involved with giving a pupil an auld slap. 
In your Endo!

Bensars

But if you were a good enough teacher you shouldnt have to resort to violence against a child.

After all, you have all recieved training to deal with such incidents. Teachers want to be regarded as professionals after all ! ;)

wherefromreferee?

Quote from: Bensars on June 25, 2008, 01:09:05 PM
But if you were a good enough teacher you shouldnt have to resort to violence against a child.

After all, you have all recieved training to deal with such incidents. Teachers want to be regarded as professionals after all ! ;)

Tut tut Bensars, it's I before E except after C.  Kids, they just don't listen these days!! :D :D
In your Endo!

Bensars

 :D :D

That was only a teaser ! 

I bet you're the type that calls the manager in a restaurant to point out spelling mistakes on the specials board, while your colleague practices their  fresh air golf swing, another is annoying the barman with a photocopy of the picture round  from the previous nights quiz !

screenexile

Quote from: Bensars on June 25, 2008, 01:09:05 PM
But if you were a good enough teacher you shouldnt have to resort to violence against a child.

After all, you have all recieved training to deal with such incidents. Teachers want to be regarded as professionals after all ! ;)

Has to be the biggest myth of all time!

You cannot train someone how to keep discipline in a classroom. Some people have a certain personality that lends itself to pupils not wanting to cross them but basically teachers offer no real threat to children anymore if they can't inflict pain on them. Kids are wise to the idea now and any threat of detention or telling parents is laughed off and the behaviour keeps continuing.

I'm a qualified teacher myself and the last year of teaching practice is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do... I'm not too keen to rush back into it to be honest as I don't think I have the personality to teach in a secondary school. I would be much happier as a primary teacher I think but then I made the wrong choice when doing my teaching practice so I just have to live with it!

Bensars

Quotebut basically teachers offer no real threat to children anymore if they can't inflict pain on them

Scary from a childs perspective if thats a representive sample of the mentality within  the teaching profession !

corn02

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 25, 2008, 01:02:36 PM

I'd have a brave few family members in teaching and the thing I've never understood is why they have so much notice for inspections. Surely if the inspection is to have any real meaning, it should be on a random basis, i.e. they turn up unannounced and if things aren't up to scratch, tough. Is there still such notice for inspections?

Exactly. How can they really judge if they have pupils on best behaviour, nice projects set up for one day only etc.

screenexile

Quote from: Bensars on June 25, 2008, 02:45:54 PM
Quotebut basically teachers offer no real threat to children anymore if they can't inflict pain on them

Scary from a childs perspective if thats a representive sample of the mentality within  the teaching profession !


OK maybe I could have phrased that better instead of sounding like a Headmaster from a school during the war times. I do not and never would condone the infliction of pain on a child. All I am saying is that no longer is a stern word, a detention or a grounding enough to maintain discipline. None of these things are a real punishment for a child and god help you if you don't have the parents on your side becasue you will be slaughtered.

I had real problems with a couple of children last year. One of their parents was a lovely woman and we arranged that the child not be allowed his laptop back until he had behaved sufficiently in my class for a week and he was on the same notice for the rest of the term that I could have an impact on something he cared about.

The flipside was another kid whose mother didn't care! She said it was my problem and I had to deal with it! What could I do? Give him a yellow card (that was the system of discipline used)? A lot of discipline policies mean nothing in School's and withough proper co-operation from all other teachers and parents you stand very little chance of controlling discipline!

ONeill

Corporal punishment will never return as that approach to discipline went out 20 yrs ago in all forms of authority, from teachers to parents.

Discipline is a hard one. The majority of fellas in a decent school, and most schools are, are eventually manageable and know why they are there. There'll always be 2-3% who are impossible and can only be bribed by the example you gave above. That's not teaching but it's easier to get a hair from a hungry tiger than get a pupil excluded for extreme behaviour, so you need to quell the minority for the sake of the majority somehow.

Don't let experiences like that put you off screenexile. There'll be days throughout your career when you'll pine for an easier office/site job/managerial (and I've worked in all) where you can exercise your strengths without having a 14-year old plus parent making your work an impossibility and your health feels like it's deteriorating at a chronic rate. However, gradually, the good days will envelope the bad'uns and if you feel you're cut out for it, it'll go for you.

On the other hand, if you find after 12 months you feel no different, get out. There are many who hate the profession they are in but see it through for 25-30 years - a waste of a life and no good for the pupils. Not many can become secondary teachers. Not many can become primary teachers. I taught primary for 14 months in the mid-90s and I left for the sake of my sanity. I now love my job although mainly because I deal with 16-18 year olds - much easier in my book. There are others who prefer 11-14. You'll find your niche eventually.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

john mcgill

Screenexile that's some good advice from O'Neill!

At one stage I was part of a team that went into schools that were in Special Measures.  I remember one school in West London where the children ruled the corridors and the teachers's car park had an 18 foot fence around it to stop arson. Lenny Henry played the role, in a TV show,  of a black headteacher who took the school over and turned it around.  I was a so called experienced teacher,  a senior teacher in an East London school, and the experience shell shocked me.  I was lucky in that I knew that I had some past achievements behind me and I talked to other teachers about what to do.  At times then I thought that I was the worst teacher in the world.  Talking made me realise that others have the same challenges.   

Screenexile I would advise you to talk to others.  I eventually got a grip on the students by being consistent, fair and getting to know them and gradually letting them get to know me.  Last year I told a QUB lecturer who was proclaiming the excellent subject knowledge of his student teachers that I was more interested in teachers who could relate to pupils and build relationships.  The subject knowledge can come later.

Screenexile manys the time I felt like jacking the job in especially on a Monday morning after having 9G but I have found that the best time to sum up your teaching is half way through the holidays.  If you still feel bad then its time to consider a career change.


ziggysego

320 teachers 'off sick each day'

Teachers in Northern Ireland took 58,107 sick days last year, averaging more than 320 teachers off each day.

The figures were revealed in an assembly written answer by Education Minister Caitriona Ruane to the DUP's Michelle McIlveen.

Ms McIlveen, a member of the assembly's education committee, said the figures were "astonishing".

The Department of Education said it was working closely with the employing authorities to reduce sickness levels.

Ms McIlveen said: "We are seeing a complete lack of direction from the department and this adds to the stress under which teachers have to work.

"Absences cause problems for both schools and pupils and we have the additional cost of supply teachers which comes out of the education budget."

Frank Bunting, northern secretary of the Irish National Teachers' Organisation, told the Belfast Telegraph the profession was facing a crisis.

"The quality of teaching and learning is extraordinary against a backdrop where teachers face interference, initiatives and ridiculous levels of bureaucracy - all in the name of accountability, allegedly.

"The miracle is that, day after day, teachers continue teaching and that sickness and absenteeism levels are not very much higher than they are," he said.

However, a Department of Education spokesman said: "The employing authorities have recently extended the provision of counselling services to all teachers via a 24-hour telephone helpline.

"The management side and teacher side of the Teacher Negotiating Committee have recently agreed a revised Management Attendance Procedure that has been issued to all schools."

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7473907.stm
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