China Coronavirus

[theskull1]

The man is asking questions in regard to the guidelines that were being recommended at that time ... these in particular. Not unreasonable considering they we subsequently updated

6.5 Consider an opioid and benzodiazepine combination (see tables 4 and 5) for
patients with COVID-19 who:
• are at the end of life and
• have moderate to severe breathlessness and               <<<<<<<< see below
• are distressed.                                                          <<<<<<<<

Consider concomitant use of an antiemetic and a regular stimulant laxative. At the
time of publication (April 2020), opioids and benzodiazepines did not have a UK
marketing authorisation for moderate to severe breathlessness (see the General
Medical Council's guidance on prescribing unlicensed medicines for further
information).

[Milltown Row2]

I don't think there's anyone out there that looking back feels things could have been done better.

But we ran with it and hopefully everything comes out in the wash.

That's what the enquiries (when they happen) will bring about

[imtommygunn]

Things could have been done a good bit better in various regards but if you believed some of the stuff that does the rounds you would nearly think it was genocide and you would never talk to any medical professional  you knew ever again.

[clarshack]

Anyone check out how much John Campbell pretend doctor earns from this bluffing. Makes you think.

had never heard of him before so checked there and he's not even a real Doctor. He's a Nurse ffs who is making a pure fortune on Youtube.

[J70]

Things could have been done a good bit better in various regards but if you believed some of the stuff that does the rounds you would nearly think it was genocide and you would never talk to any medical professional  you knew ever again.

And those who are flipping out over the necessarily cautious, but trial and error, approach to a novel viral pandemic are the same people who were pushing the likes of ivermectin (already familiar to those of us who grew up on cattle farms) based on nothing more than anecdotes and rumours.

Its the contrarianism that is the point, not the substance.

[theskull1]

Terrible take J70 .... how can you conclude that?

Guidelines recommending using well understood end of life medications (so not trial and error I'd argue) to suppress symptoms (symptoms which might be keep the person alive) rather than focus on treating the cause (the infection) on the face of it doesn't feel right. Please explain what you think is the trial and error component? If keeping people alive was the focus ... surely that protocol would have been seen as high risk at the very least.

Compare that on the other hand to recommendations that were made by frontline doctors (after trial and error) who were reporting great success treating patients using an off label anti viral medication with a safety profile better than aspirin. Let remember how quick the main stream rubbished and ridiculed the idea of deploying this ahead of the EUA sign off to allow this new (safe and effective) vaccine technology. Weird to me that there wasn't at least one country in the west who didn't give it a try when the death counts were as high as they were. Same with no one pushing vitamin D. Both these examples were extremely low risk. 

[J70]

I wasn't engaged in the specifics of whatever you're on about skull.

More a general observation in response to intommygun's post on the after the fact second guessing and contrarianism coming from the right on just about everything to do with the pandemic, mostly from people on whose shoulders rested no responsibility whatsoever.

My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning. I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

[theskull1]

My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?

[Gmac]

My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?

Trump mentioned it so that was enough for j70 to put it on the garbage heap , that being said  the Trump administration are the ones who fast tracked the vaccine he's 100% behind .
When they didn't know/lie about it stopping people getting infected and it stopping transmission why would you believe anything else they say about it ?
So called Smart guys can't own up to being lied to or hoodwinked I suspect.

[J70]

My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?

The issue with ivermectin (which still hasn't been shown to be an effective treatment – if I'm out of date, go ahead and post the evidence) was that it was being falsely pushed, for political reasons, as a plausible alternative to the measures that were in place at the time. f**k lockdowns, f**k masks, f**k social distancing, just give a blast of ivermectin to those infected and all will be well. Even if it HAD turned out by this stage to be a safe, effective treatment, that would not have justified the efforts to use it to smear and rabble rouse at the time. And who the hell was silenced? The ivermectin treatment was all over the place! Farmers and ranchers in the states found it hard to get at one point because even the veterinary versions were selling out as people tried to self-medicate. The FDA had to issue a warning notice to the public about the risks. Don't go crying because those with actual responsibility refused to rush this unproven drug to market for this purpose.

Do you think Fox News and the rest of the US right wing would have started pushing ivermectin if the recommendations had come from Fauci and the CDC and NIH? Not a chance. It was all part of their anti-government/anti-authoritarian grievance bullshit.

[J70]

My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?

Trump mentioned it so that was enough for j70 to put it on the garbage heap , that being said  the Trump administration are the ones who fast tracked the vaccine he's 100% behind .
When they didn't know/lie about it stopping people getting infected and it stopping transmission why would you believe anything else they say about it ?
So called Smart guys can't own up to being lied to or hoodwinked I suspect.

Which is it? Trump pushed ivermectin so I mindlessly rejected it or Trump fast-tracked the vaccine so I mindlessly accepted it?

[Gmac]

My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?

Trump mentioned it so that was enough for j70 to put it on the garbage heap , that being said  the Trump administration are the ones who fast tracked the vaccine he's 100% behind .
When they didn't know/lie about it stopping people getting infected and it stopping transmission why would you believe anything else they say about it ?
So called Smart guys can't own up to being lied to or hoodwinked I suspect.

Which is it? Trump pushed ivermectin so I mindlessly rejected it or Trump fast-tracked the vaccine so I mindlessly accepted it?

you probably went all in the vaccine around November 4 2020

[clarshack]

what's the story with these Lockdown files that have been leaked? genuine or fake?

[trailer]

Many Politicians are very stupid and incompetent people, both here locally in NI (Jim Wells Health Minister, Deirdre Hargey communities minister for example) and in ROI (Shane Ross, Stephen Donnelly, Eamon Ryan) but also in the UK (Hancock, Cleverly, Williamson, Johnson, Truss) and the USA (Trump and Biden)
Just look at the WhatsApp messages from Hancock et all. These people had their hands on the levers of power making key policy decisions.

They are that stupid and dense that they don't actually know they are in above their heads. They aren't clever enough to see it. We vote these people in, which of course makes us dense as well. We're most probably doomed as a species.   

[shawshank]

FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story