The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Milltown Row2]

Whilst watching Ireland play rugby, I always want them to win the match but its more out of patriotism than anything else. I'm not going to pretend that I'm really disappointed once it is over. It always amuses me with the amount of event junkies who tune in for the 5/6 big rugby matches every year and profess themselves as resident experts by throwing in a few impressive phrases. Most gaa supporters are these type of fans in my experience. Indeed the only time I ever tune in is for some of the ECC games and the big international matches. I have to say though that I find rugby very predictable with 95% grunt and 5% skill. I can appreciate the skill level required to play no 9 & no 10 in particular but overall the emphasis is very much on size and power rather than skill and finesse. It's a massive corporate event though and at the top level the sport is thriving as these event junkies buy into the hype. Meanwhile at grass roots level the sport continues to decline.

So this assessment is based on actually playing it?

[seafoid]

Whilst watching Ireland play rugby, I always want them to win the match but its more out of patriotism than anything else. I'm not going to pretend that I'm really disappointed once it is over. It always amuses me with the amount of event junkies who tune in for the 5/6 big rugby matches every year and profess themselves as resident experts by throwing in a few impressive phrases. Most gaa supporters are these type of fans in my experience. Indeed the only time I ever tune in is for some of the ECC games and the big international matches. I have to say though that I find rugby very predictable with 95% grunt and 5% skill. I can appreciate the skill level required to play no 9 & no 10 in particular but overall the emphasis is very much on size and power rather than skill and finesse. It's a massive corporate event though and at the top level the sport is thriving as these event junkies buy into the hype. Meanwhile at grass roots level the sport continues to decline.

the implication is that GAA fans are too stupid to understand another sport.
Don't Tyrone play a version of rugby these days ? Lots of teams have non scoring forwards as well

[Milltown Row2]

Whilst watching Ireland play rugby, I always want them to win the match but its more out of patriotism than anything else. I'm not going to pretend that I'm really disappointed once it is over. It always amuses me with the amount of event junkies who tune in for the 5/6 big rugby matches every year and profess themselves as resident experts by throwing in a few impressive phrases. Most gaa supporters are these type of fans in my experience. Indeed the only time I ever tune in is for some of the ECC games and the big international matches. I have to say though that I find rugby very predictable with 95% grunt and 5% skill. I can appreciate the skill level required to play no 9 & no 10 in particular but overall the emphasis is very much on size and power rather than skill and finesse. It's a massive corporate event though and at the top level the sport is thriving as these event junkies buy into the hype. Meanwhile at grass roots level the sport continues to decline.

the implication is that GAA fans are too stupid to understand another sport.
Don't Tyrone play a version of rugby these days ? Lots of teams have non scoring forwards as well

It's usually the backs that score in rugby

[passedit]

That was as poor a first half as I've seen from Ireland in a while. Lot of people getting stick for it so I'll add Rory Best who literally threw away his Lions chances yesterday and the back three who were wojus.

Do the basics poorly and you lose. Same in all sports.

Off to Perth now to see  Ireland's real heroes. Still could have been worse could have been in Newry

[Take Your Points]

Whilst watching Ireland play rugby, I always want them to win the match but its more out of patriotism than anything else. I'm not going to pretend that I'm really disappointed once it is over. It always amuses me with the amount of event junkies who tune in for the 5/6 big rugby matches every year and profess themselves as resident experts by throwing in a few impressive phrases. Most gaa supporters are these type of fans in my experience. Indeed the only time I ever tune in is for some of the ECC games and the big international matches. I have to say though that I find rugby very predictable with 95% grunt and 5% skill. I can appreciate the skill level required to play no 9 & no 10 in particular but overall the emphasis is very much on size and power rather than skill and finesse. It's a massive corporate event though and at the top level the sport is thriving as these event junkies buy into the hype. Meanwhile at grass roots level the sport continues to decline.

the implication is that GAA fans are too stupid to understand another sport.
Don't Tyrone play a version of rugby these days ? Lots of teams have non scoring forwards as well

To be fair Tyrone play a form of Rugby League and this thread is based on Rugby Union.

There are now many who you would categorise as "GAA supporters" who regularly watch rugby at professional club level and others, particularly among young people mostly living in towns with progressive rugby clubs, who are playing rugby especially in the Gaelic games off season if that is allowed to exist by clubs trying to have exclusivity of players' time. 

Where is your evidence of decline in rugby grassroots?  In my experience I find more and more parents who don't want their children to play Gaelic football given the level of violence in the club game.  If schools were to take a more progressive approach to support and allow a full range of games then you would see a considerable move away from GAA to other sports especially soccer and a lessor extent rugby.  Any investigation into the amount of school funds used on the 'majority" sport would show horrifically high levels of expenditure on it compared to other sports and this includes both so called GAA and rugby schools.

[Canalman]

The way Scotland celebrated at the end of a deserved victory, you'd think they just managed to beat the All Blacks. I suppose that's what years of getting whacked by Italy will do to you.

In fairness to Scotland, they have managed to win a knockout game  ( maybe 2) in the World Cup,something Ireland haven't managed to do in 30 odd years.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Just for the record a half decent 6 nations and we are a top seed for the world cup. A terrible 6 nations could have us as a third rate team and possible group of death like Oz, England and Wales last time. Worth thinking about before we c**k up anymore.

[Hardy]

If we're handing out brickbats for performance, I have a nomination for Conor Murray. The amount of possession he kicked away was almost incredible. And he may be a good rugby player but he has the brain of a dung beetle. In the first half, when the Irish scrum had extracted three or four penalties in a row and the referee had clearly indicated the next one was a yellow card, what does Murray do at the next scrum? Instead of leaving the ball in the scrum and waiting for the push, the penalty and the card he grabs it from the feet of the back row and runs it - to nowhere, of course.

[AZOffaly]

Hardy, he kicks because that's the plan. He's done it for years, and he's done it because he's told to do it.

As for that scrum, I think the Scottish Scrum had held, and Ireland were in danger of losing it, that';s why he picked it. Or else it was a called move. Conor Murray does not have the brain of a 'dung beetle', he's actually quite smart.

[foxcommander]

The way Scotland celebrated at the end of a deserved victory, you'd think they just managed to beat the All Blacks. I suppose that's what years of getting whacked by Italy will do to you.

Sure isn't that's how Ireland celebrated when they beat the All Blacks in a FRIENDLY. At least Scotland won a game that mattered ffs.

Haahahah, they sure did celebrate like jackasses after the NZ game and rub everyones noses into the bargain. The d4 wannabe brigade will be quiet as hell tomorrow at work. I'll have to give them a gentle reminder.

[Take Your Points]

If we're handing out brickbats for performance, I have a nomination for Conor Murray. The amount of possession he kicked away was almost incredible. And he may be a good rugby player but he has the brain of a dung beetle. In the first half, when the Irish scrum had extracted three or four penalties in a row and the referee had clearly indicated the next one was a yellow card, what does Murray do at the next scrum? Instead of leaving the ball in the scrum and waiting for the push, the penalty and the card he grabs it from the feet of the back row and runs it - to nowhere, of course.

As AZ says that may be the plan but you have to play as you see it.  Part of the problem was that Heaslip was not fully engaged in the scrum and doing one thing he can do well - push.  He was more interested in bring the ball to his feet to allow him to pick it up.  It was better to push through the Scottish scrum and gain the yellowcard.  On plenty of other times he kicked possession away to a rampant Scottish back line and when the Irish wings weren't chasing and didn't have the speed required to deal with a Scottish team that were as fast as Glasgow have demonstrated over this season.

[Hardy]

Hardy, he kicks because that's the plan. He's done it for years, and he's done it because he's told to do it.

As for that scrum, I think the Scottish Scrum had held, and Ireland were in danger of losing it, that';s why he picked it. Or else it was a called move. Conor Murray does not have the brain of a 'dung beetle', he's actually quite smart.

Oops sorry. Didn't mean to insult anyone - just talking about how he manages the game. He may be a genius for all I know, but I just wonder what goes on in his rugby head. You surely remember the time Munster just had to keep the ball for a minute at the end of a game and Murray took the ball from a ruck and kicked it to the opposition. I can't remember how that ended but did it lead to losing the game?

I know he's kicked for years and I know he's under orders. I hate the tactic anyway, because it gives away possession about 80% of the time. My point was that on Saturday, it was 100% because (mostly) of bad kicking and not realising that when the kick was good Scotland were outfielding us every time. 

As for the scrum, I didn't see that there was any time given to see whether the scrum had held. In the previous five or so scrums, the scrum had stayed static for 5-10 seconds, then Ireland organised a shove and each time the Scottish scrum folded and each time it was a penalty. If it was a called move, whoever called it is the dung beetle.

[Walter Cronc]

Disappointing result on Saturday. As good as Scotland were, we made them look better than they are. That try from the line out was inexcusable. Our famed back row done very little in the 1st half. Perhaps the balance isn't right, similar to that of Ferris and O'Brien in 2011. Would VdF offer more poaching ability. As for PJ's performance I thought he done very well. Look he's not Sexton but at 24 Jonny was only making his break through at Leinster.

A major worry is our lack of pace in the wide channels. It was similar to the Argentina game where they attacked us wide. Really need the likes of Adam Byrne, Sweetnam and Stockdale in the next year or two.

We really have to go for the bonus point in Italy. Think we can get it. France looked decent at times and might catch the Scots on the hop. Would love Wales to beat England but doubt it.

[magpie seanie]

As great as he is I think Joe Schmidt (and the stupid IRFU) needs to be called out for this result and performance. His conservative selection policies and gameplans really got caught out today. In November we beat the All blacks by keeping possession much more than we usually do. It's well known that Scotland's strength is their back 3 and what did we do - kick a load of rubbish uncontested ball to them. And our errors - complacency was at work big time. Scotland were chomping at the bit and we weren't up for it at all by comparison. Schmidt has an over loyalty to Leinster players. Ringrose is not ready for this yet. Kearney proved me wrong in Chicago but was awful. Earls is merely a good pro 12 winger. I was shocked at the lack of pace Zebo showed at times also. That back line looks stale and devoid of ideas. Credit to Paddy Jackson for keeping his head when all around him was playing rubbish. He's a very good international 10 and deserves to keep the jersey (but we can't risk having only Keatley as backup - pure madness that we luckily got away with). Madigan should have been called in, no questions asked. Scotland had several players who play in France - what makes us so special that we can't make an exception and call up a 4th choice out half in an emergency?

Even with the terrible first half performance we should have got the win. It's no use beating the All Blacks and then not turning up for 40 minutes against Scotland. Their 3rd try was incredibly embarrassing.

[Taylor]

As great as he is I think Joe Schmidt (and the stupid IRFU) needs to be called out for this result and performance. His conservative selection policies and gameplans really got caught out today. In November we beat the All blacks by keeping possession much more than we usually do. It's well known that Scotland's strength is their back 3 and what did we do - kick a load of rubbish uncontested ball to them. And our errors - complacency was at work big time. Scotland were chomping at the bit and we weren't up for it at all by comparison. Schmidt has an over loyalty to Leinster players. Ringrose is not ready for this yet. Kearney proved me wrong in Chicago but was awful. Earls is merely a good pro 12 winger. I was shocked at the lack of pace Zebo showed at times also. That back line looks stale and devoid of ideas. Credit to Paddy Jackson for keeping his head when all around him was playing rubbish. He's a very good international 10 and deserves to keep the jersey (but we can't risk having only Keatley as backup - pure madness that we luckily got away with). Madigan should have been called in, no questions asked. Scotland had several players who play in France - what makes us so special that we can't make an exception and call up a 4th choice out half in an emergency?

Even with the terrible first half performance we should have got the win. It's no use beating the All Blacks and then not turning up for 40 minutes against Scotland. Their 3rd try was incredibly embarrassing.

Completely agree - the foundations for this defeat were made by the tactics JS sent out his players with. Completely rigid and lacked any adventure. Yet again the national rugby team will deliver little when it promised so much.

All Blacks games seem a world away from that spectacle on Saturday