Clerical abuse!

Started by D4S, May 20, 2009, 05:09:14 PM

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We all know this disgusting scandal is as a result of The Church and The State, but who do you hold mostly accountable, and should therefore pay out the most in compensation to victims?

The State
The Church
Split 50/50

pintsofguinness

Quote from: The Iceman on April 07, 2010, 01:37:19 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 06, 2010, 09:06:44 PM
QuoteYou obviously have no faith Pints or only a token faith that is of no importance to you.  If it was important to you then you would partake in the sacraments.
What the hell does that mean? You know nothing about me or my faith?
I dont believe in the sacraments, I dont believe you have to be baptised to be close to God or part of his family, same with confirmation, same with marriage.

You can't believe in Jesus and not believe in the Sacraments - He instituted them! You can't have faith and not believe in Baptism you don't make any sense at all!

Quote
You gripe on and on about everything and anything - that doens't mean that we should not complain when things go wrong - but thats all you do is complain - even when things go write.  I've yet to read a positive post from you.  You seem to have a permanent chip on your shoulder.  I don't want to turn this into a personal attack and i'm sorry thats where it went but enough is enough sometimes.
That's exactly what you've done. ...
And I admitted that
[/quote]
You can go f**k yourself, I've stuck to the topic and I've never got personal with you.
I know there's a right crowd of dickheads on here who can't disagree with you without bullshit and name calling, I wouldn't have had you down as one of them.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

The Iceman

Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 07, 2010, 07:13:00 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 07, 2010, 01:37:19 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 06, 2010, 09:06:44 PM
QuoteYou obviously have no faith Pints or only a token faith that is of no importance to you.  If it was important to you then you would partake in the sacraments.
What the hell does that mean? You know nothing about me or my faith?
I dont believe in the sacraments, I dont believe you have to be baptised to be close to God or part of his family, same with confirmation, same with marriage.

You can't believe in Jesus and not believe in the Sacraments - He instituted them! You can't have faith and not believe in Baptism you don't make any sense at all!

Quote
You gripe on and on about everything and anything - that doens't mean that we should not complain when things go wrong - but thats all you do is complain - even when things go write.  I've yet to read a positive post from you.  You seem to have a permanent chip on your shoulder.  I don't want to turn this into a personal attack and i'm sorry thats where it went but enough is enough sometimes.
That's exactly what you've done. ...
And I admitted that
You can go f**k yourself, I've stuck to the topic and I've never got personal with you.
I know there's a right crowd of d**kheads on here who can't disagree with you without bullshit and name calling, I wouldn't have had you down as one of them.
[/quote]

the difficulty with this topic is its hard not get personal.  I can't argue against your comments without getting personal  - how else would I word it?? I expressed this in the actual post.  So its either I disagree with what you said by telling you what I believe or I stop discussing?  You may not go off topic but you always argue the negative and it gets depressing after a while.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Rois

Quote from: longrunsthefox on November 29, 2009, 12:12:01 AM
I cut my stick with that shower long ago... wouldn't darken their door. Just weddings and funerals. Sick f**s. If it was any other outfit they'd be disbanded. Sad thing is tens of thousands will go to mass today and listen to their mealy mouthed bullshit and throw money on the plate. God love their wit. 


God bless the wit of those who still go to mass translates to me that they who continue to practice Roman Catholicism have no wit.  They are wrong to continue to practice? 




pintsofguinness

Quote

the difficulty with this topic is its hard not get personal.  I can't argue against your comments without getting personal  - how else would I word it?? I expressed this in the actual post.  So its either I disagree with what you said by telling you what I believe or I stop discussing?  You may not go off topic but you always argue the negative and it gets depressing after a while.
It's about playing the ball and not the man...
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

The Iceman

If the man keeps kicking the ball to the other team on purpose every time you eventually have to take him off.

I'll try to play the ball next time but I hope you get my point.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

pintsofguinness

I dont get your point, no.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

The Iceman

OK let me play the ball

I find it extremely difficult to have a conversation with someone who views the world through Grey glasses.  Its hard when they only make negative comments and their outlook appears so negative that it would depress the life out of you.  Sometimes it gets to a point where you can't take it anymore and you need to say something.

Thats my point.

Its hard to play the ball in those cases lad - I cam either beat around the bush as above or tell you straight.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

pintsofguinness

Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

muppet

Quote from: The Iceman on April 07, 2010, 08:17:39 PM
OK let me play the ball

I find it extremely difficult to have a conversation with someone who views the world through Grey glasses.  Its hard when they only make negative comments and their outlook appears so negative that it would depress the life out of you.  Sometimes it gets to a point where you can't take it anymore and you need to say something.

Thats my point.

Its hard to play the ball in those cases lad - I cam either beat around the bush as above or tell you straight.

You are talking through your holy.  ;)
MWWSI 2017

Main Street

#909
I'll get GDA to lock this thread if you guys don't wise up.
Did you get lost on the way to the religious views thread?

More pressure sent Cardinal Brady's way, to own up to the cover up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0407/1224267827851.html

Woman abused by Smyth wants Dr Brady to apologise

A WOMAN who was repeatedly sexually abused as a girl by Fr Brendan Smyth has called on Catholic primate Cardinal Seán Brady to apologise to her and to "walk the walk" over his handling of a church investigation into the paedophile priest.

"Samantha", who was abused by Smyth between 1974 and 1979, asked "how can he expect to head the church knowing that I was abused and raped because he didn't do what he should have done?"

She told The Irish Times : "All I want from him is two sentences, and spoken as a man not as a priest.

"I want him to say, 'Samantha, I'm really sorry that because I didn't go to the guards you went through four more years of torture at the hands of Brendan Smyth. For that I am truly sorry'."
Last month it emerged that in 1975 Cardinal Brady, then a canon lawyer in the diocese of Kilmore, took part in an investigation involving two young people who alleged abuse by Smyth.

He believed both were telling the truth and swore them to secrecy.
He reported his findings to the then bishop of Kilmore Francis McKiernan, who removed from Smyth any rights to exercise priestly ministry in the diocese. The bishop also reported the then Fr Brady's findings to Smyth's superiors at the Norbertine abbey in Kilnacrott, Co Cavan.

No one involved informed gardaí or any civil authorities. Smyth continued to abuse children until 1993
.
------
She called on "the guys on the ground [the priests] to speak out" on the sex abuse issue.

"Like Fr Brian D'Arcy, they should stand up for what they believe in," she said. She cried watching Fr D'Arcy on a recent Late Late Show when "he talked about humility, honesty and God's love" and when he said "I'm a nobody on the ground". It was "what everyone is supposed to be".


etc etc


D4S

I changed jobs and have not had the same access to this site for the last 6 months or so and have not really been a frequent user.  But having read through parts of this thread it seems to have seriously lost it's way.  I think we're all on the same boat at the end of the day in so far as being upset and appalled by the abuse of children by the church, and in agreement that the cover up was all handled disgustingly down the years.  All the fighting and backbiting between anonymous people on here really helps nobody, perhaps you should all use your energy elsewhere.  How would people feel about me deleting this thread?
The secret of success in life is for a man to be ready for his opportunity when it comes.

mylestheslasher

Quote from: D4S on April 08, 2010, 12:04:43 AM
I changed jobs and have not had the same access to this site for the last 6 months or so and have not really been a frequent user.  But having read through parts of this thread it seems to have seriously lost it's way.  I think we're all on the same boat at the end of the day in so far as being upset and appalled by the abuse of children by the church, and in agreement that the cover up was all handled disgustingly down the years.  All the fighting and backbiting between anonymous people on here really helps nobody, perhaps you should all use your energy elsewhere.  How would people feel about me deleting this thread?

I don't think you should delete the thread. There is a lot of good information in it and even some good opinion.

ardmhachaabu

#912
D4S, I think the post above this one says it all

I see lrtf deleted his post, wish he would do that more often
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

theskull1

It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

orangeman

Quote from: theskull1 on April 10, 2010, 01:21:29 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612457.stm

Pope Benedict hit by new Church child abuse allegations


It's ok Skull - the Vatican have responded by saying that he has acted appropriately - no story here !!  ??? ;)


Vatican insists Benedict acted correctlySaturday, 10 April 2010 07:41
The Vatican has defended Pope Benedict against fresh allegations about his handling of clerical sex abuse cases.

The Associated Press News Agency claims that, as one of Pope John Paul's top officials in the early 1980s, the then Cardinal Josef Ratzinger resisted pleas to defrock a California-based priest who had sexually molested children, citing concerns including 'the good of the universal church'.

A Vatican spokesman said the Pope's response was not an attempt at a cover-up but made clear the need to study the case with more attention, taking into account the good of all involved.

According to the Agency, in 1981, the then Fr Stephen Kiesle, aged in his mid-thirties, asked to be defrocked after he had been convicted of molesting two boys.

AdvertisementFour years later, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote to Kiesle's Bishop, John Cummins of Oakland - who backed a speedy defrocking - agreeing that the arguments supporting one were of 'grave significance' but adding that a very careful review and more time were needed.

He also warned that any such decision must take into account the 'good of the universal church' and the 'detriment' that it could provoke in the Church, 'particularly considering the (priest's) young age.'

In a memo to the Bishop, diocesan official Father George Mockel interpreted the Ratzinger letter to mean that: 'basically they are going to sit on it until Steve gets quite a bit older.'

AP says it took two more years to defrock Kiesle and during that time he continued to do volunteer work with children through the Church.

A Vatican spokesman told the News Agency the future Pope's response was not an attempt at a cover-up but made clear the need to study the case with more attention, taking into account the good of all involved.