Irish mercenaries, unionist coat trailers and the Bard of Dunclug

[Orior]

5times is exhibiting what most of the disident republicans I have come across do. Real bitterness and anger. The fact you bring Lewis Hamilton and the colour of his skin into the debate really shows your true colours to me. Conflict cannot continue indefinetely and the winning by conflict alone was never going to happen when you are in stalemate 30 years later. A political solution, a truce or a treaty of some sort ends most of these conflicts. In such a agreement both sides need to compromise and that is what happened. You are a tiny minority within the republican family and maybe you should remember  that.

As for EG going on about republicans having to convince 1 million unionists on the benefits of a United Ireland. Again, that is wrong. Republicans only need to convince 50.1% of the whole of the 6 counties. That could means as little as 5% of unionists would have to vote for a united Ireland (if all catholics voted for). Now, if that happened what would the unionist attitude to democracy be I wonder?? Why, I'm sure there would be parades everywhere celebrating a truly historical democratic decision. What would you do EG?

I'd happily attend an Orange parade in a Unitied Ireland 

[Zapatista]

It seemed to me that the protesters had great confidence in themselves. They continued with a protest (which some predicted to cause mass rioting) in the confidence that the protestors would remain calm and dignified. In spite of all the hype and hysteria in the media and made real by the loyalists the protestors did exactly what they said they would do. The organisers of the protest had enough faith in themselves and their followers to continue their important and just protest. I find it funny if not expected, to see so many disappointed that the protestors did not lower themselves to the level craved by the Unionists. All the predictions made by Unionists and the trouble to come which was blamed on Republicans (even before there was any protest) is now forgotten and the attacks are now directed in a different direction. Well done to all concerned in the protest!!!

[ziggysego]

It seemed to me that the protesters had great confidence in themselves. They continued with a protest (which some predicted to cause mass rioting) in the confidence that the protestors would remain calm and dignified. In spite of all the hype and hysteria in the media and made real by the loyalists the protestors did exactly what they said they would do. The organisers of the protest had enough faith in themselves and their followers to continue their important and just protest. I find it funny if not expected, to see so many disappointed that the protestors did not lower themselves to the level craved by the Unionists. All the predictions made by Unionists and the trouble to come which was blamed on Republicans (even before there was any protest) is now forgotten and the attacks are now directed in a different direction. Well done to all concerned in the protest!!!

Not all, but some. But yes, I noticed the same.

[Zapatista]

Not all, but some. But yes, I noticed the same.

RTE have spent the last 10 years reporting that parades past off peacefully. What will they report next week? The USA did not invade Canada today?

[ziggysego]

Not all, but some. But yes, I noticed the same.

RTE have spent the last 10 years reporting that parades past off peacefully. What will they report next week? The USA did not invade Canada today?

The found someone from Limerick who's in the British Army to say it's all a bit o' craic last night on the news too.

I found some of the Loyalists at the parade to be quite frightening. It's a credit to the protesters that they kept dignified and didn't take the bait that so many were hoping for. Thankfully it's over now. I'm just worried that they'll try and up the stakes next time.

See the Unionists weren't happy with it yesterday as there was no RAF flyover, therefore isn't a proper homecoming.

[Doogie Browser]

I was delighted with the nationalist response to this march at the weekend, they made their feelings of oppositiion well known and articulated their discomfort in a peaceful legitimate protest.
The coat tailers of dissident republicanism I cannot answer for nor wish to, but it was plain for all to see that the Loyalist community viewed this as another chance to assert perceived superiority over the nationalist population, we will see no such similar parades in Cardiff, Edinburgh or indeed London.
A service alone in St Annes would have been more dignified but would not have offended anyone so was never an option, instead the people of the six counties got their opportunity to welcome home 'their' troops with dignity....

[5iveTimes]

In many ways Donagh is to Sinn Fein what Tony Fearon is to Tottenham Hotspur. fearon can see no wrong in his beloved Spurs, near bottom of the table, going nowhere fast, will do well to survive. Yet the odd result like a draw with Arsenal or a fortuitous win over Liverpool is enough to give him hope that better times are around the corner, those lucky results are simply papering over the cracks that the rest of us can see. The same is true with Sinn Fein and lackies like Donagh, they blindly cling to the idea of a United Ireland, the idea of an Irish language act or a stadium for all the good citizens of the North to use at the Maze, is the equivalent of a 4-4 draw with Arsenal to them. Enough to give them hope, but in truth not what they set out to achieve.
Sinn Fein voters can dress it up whatever way the chose, but the fact of the matter is that Sinn Fein are administering British rule in the North. They have settled way short of a United Ireland because it was the best deal they could get. There is nothing else on offer. Republicanism is dead. Dreams of a United Ireland have faded. We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North, so like it or not we have to work with them. In a democracy it is majority rule and they are in the majority.
It may also be a bitter pill to swallow for Sinn Feiners to swallow, but no one here in the South really cares about the North. Its another world up there, a strange place and yes to many it is a different country. People down here have too much to worry about, the economy, house prices, job security and everyday living to worry about people who can stop bickering over who walks down what road. Southerners see yesterdays events as the British Army parading through Belfast, nothing more and nothing to get all worked up about.

[his holiness nb]

I'd also like to wholeheartedly congratulate 5Times for having the strength and courage to be very tempted to call Lewis Hamiltons a nigger, but to refrain from doing so.

You are an inspiration to us all 5Times 

On topic, good too see the protests held in a dignified manner.

[Zapatista]

Anyone who has a position of  "We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North" is deluded. Deluded to think it was ever the position of anyone and deluded to think it ever will be.

A united Ireland s Organic and will probably come to pass. Republicanism and Unionism is not the problem. The problem is Nationalism!!! Republicanism and Unionism are Political ideals while Nationalism is a tool of control. Nationalism is more divisive here than religion. It will always be as long as we buy in to the patriotic bullshit we are brain washed in. Nationalism is a tool of war appealing to the emotion of the most vulnerable (most stupid) in society in order to keep us loyal to one or another. The 'them and us" mentality of the British and Irish Nationalism was clear to see with the Loyalist mobs yesterday. Those Loyalists were covered in their UJs and British symbolism looking for a confrontation with people they expected to be Irish Nationals and were disappointed when they were meet with Republicans. While all the flagless and colourless Unionists were in the city centre having a nice day the most vulnerable (and stupid) of brain washed British Nationalists were trowing bottles and singing sectarian songs. Republicanism and Nationalism need to be separated as widely as possible for Republicanism to show its true potentail.

[Zapatista]

On topic, good too see the protests held in a dignified manner.

When I was talking to the local protesters afterwards they said there is no credit in behaving in a dignified manner. It should be expected by everyone and it was expected by those locals in attendance. I think much of this false credit comes from RTE reports of nothing over 10 years.

[Donagh]

In many ways Donagh is to Sinn Fein what Tony Fearon is to Tottenham Hotspur. fearon can see no wrong in his beloved Spurs, near bottom of the table, going nowhere fast, will do well to survive. Yet the odd result like a draw with Arsenal or a fortuitous win over Liverpool is enough to give him hope that better times are around the corner, those lucky results are simply papering over the cracks that the rest of us can see. The same is true with Sinn Fein and lackies like Donagh, they blindly cling to the idea of a United Ireland, the idea of an Irish language act or a stadium for all the good citizens of the North to use at the Maze, is the equivalent of a 4-4 draw with Arsenal to them. Enough to give them hope, but in truth not what they set out to achieve.
Sinn Fein voters can dress it up whatever way the chose, but the fact of the matter is that Sinn Fein are administering British rule in the North. They have settled way short of a United Ireland because it was the best deal they could get. There is nothing else on offer. Republicanism is dead. Dreams of a United Ireland have faded. We cannot do away with 1 million Unionists in the North, so like it or not we have to work with them. In a democracy it is majority rule and they are in the majority.
It may also be a bitter pill to swallow for Sinn Feiners to swallow, but no one here in the South really cares about the North. Its another world up there, a strange place and yes to many it is a different country. People down here have too much to worry about, the economy, house prices, job security and everyday living to worry about people who can stop bickering over who walks down what road. Southerners see yesterdays events as the British Army parading through Belfast, nothing more and nothing to get all worked up about.

What the f**k is your problem - do you want me to petition Gerry for a medal on your behalf? I attended the funeral this morning of a man who did time for the Republic in every decade from the '40's to the '80's. He also lost his health and members of his family. For the Mass I sat with a woman who had dedicated her life to the Republic, lost a son and saw her husband remaining sons do long stretches both north and south, and lost quite considerable family fortune, all in the name of the Republic. I watched a number of men do Guard of Honour beside the coffin, all 50's men, my father included, who've done long stretches and all made personal sacrifices for the Republic. Never once have I ever heard any of these people do anywhere near the amount of bitching I see coming from you every time you post on this Board, or express the kind of vitriol or bitterness than seeps from every one of your posts, even though God knows they would probably have justification to do so. To a person, everyone of them are still proud of their sacrifice, who they are and where they come from and to a person they'd do the same again and to a person would still help out in anyway they could if it would assist the 'movement'. If your bitterness has driven you into being a partitionist 'Free Stater' and happy with your lot, that's grand, but let's not pretend you are some sort of grand hero for doing so. There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.

[Aoise]

I agree Donagh, there are too many men in the North who made their sacrafices with quiet dignity and who don't need preached to from someone who ran across the border for protection!

5times you seem to be somewhat confused!  You come across on some of your posts as a supporter of some form of dissidents then you turn around and talk about the people of the south not caring about what happens in the North that the only thing they care about is economics therefore by presumption, you say that the only people who could have done something was Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.  Sure Sinn Fein and the republican people of the North are not asking anyone's permission to live on the island of Ireland in a free and democratic way.  You seem to be mistaken that I and other republican's care about what the people of the south think - this is no surprise to us to hear that they think its a different country - shock horror!  What Sinn Fein have done is give us the confidence not to care and the faith that we can reach self-determination through the art of political persuasion using our own intelligence and philosophies, ones in which we have confidence in.

If you had a reasoned political and philosophical mind, you would know that to still be using bullet and bomb would only be ammunition against us.  Don't forget, as you keep reminding us of the fact that SF are administering British Rule that it is more efficient to take someting apart from within, than trying to get into something from outside, implosion will happen, thats always been SF's policy, how can we do that if not from within and all this when Unionists can't hold anything against us i.e violence.  As far as I can see things are going very much to plan!!!

[Zapatista]

Sf should get the F out of stormont. Things were much better when there wasn't "a catholic about the place".

[Evil Genius]

Which, if we are truly honest, was only what yesterday's Parade was all about. For this was not some "Army of Occupation" sent over by Westminster to kick down doors in Ballymurphy and drag the occupants off to a compound in Long Kesh. Rather, it was a Regiment of Irish soldiers, Protestant and Catholic, from North and South, marching through their home city, after a tour of duty in Afghanistan, where they had been flying the Queen's Colours and operating under the mandate of the United Nations. Which in 2008 is the reality of "the British presence in Ireland"

And it seems to me that if that is ever going to change, then the Nationalist population of Ireland need first to recognise and accept that reality.

Hmmm  an awful lot of "somes" ignored there EG.

Some people may have opposed the march because:

a) Where the soldiers are returning from. People from all walks of life, countries etc.. have conscientious objections to the "War on Terror"
b) The origins of the RIR (Were they not formed from the UDR, a regiment who had almost 300 members convicted of terrorist offenses?)
c) They are unhappy with past British Army actions in Northern Ireland (Bloody Sunday etc..)
d) They were on the direct receiving end of British Army actions in Northern Ireland.  (Families of victims such as Aidan McAnespie's)

By defining yesterday's protests in purely tribal terms you are just as bad as thosed you are criticising.

/Jim.

I have no doubt that the various protestors will have many motives for having been out yesterday - if I gave the impression that it was all one "tribe", with one, single motive then OK, I might have been more careful with what I posted.

But that does not detract from my main point, which is that when protestors demand an end to the presence of "British troops in Ireland", they are not just talking about squaddies from some anonymous English town, sent to Belfast to crack a few Paddy skulls, before flying into Baghdad to rough up the ragheads etc, thence to Kabul to take a shot at the Taliban etc.

Those soldiers are as Irish* as any protestor, and as they march up Royal Avenue, they are marching through a city which is as much their home as that of the protestors. Moreover, the crowds who turned out to welcome them, were cheering for their own sons, brothers and fathers etc, and have just as much right to do so as any other person on the island.

Which is what Irish Republicans must face up to. Unless they (Reps) can somehow manage to drive a million people off the island - and they've not managed it in 400 years - then the Unionists are in Ireland to stay. And it must be obvious to all but the bitter or self-deluded, that whilst they are in Ireland, they will not be coerced, tricked or finessed into a United Ireland against their will.

* - The name "Royal Irish Regiment" is a bit of a giveaway, I find...

[Zapatista]

What's your point EG? I don't think it really matters where they are from, If they are Irish or British or Chinese? The protest was against actions carried out by these people not about where they are from. Should the pensioners not have protested last week as Brian Lenihan is from Castleknock and Briian Cowen is from Tullamore (or close by)?