Teachers get it handy!

[Kidder81]

I'm out of teaching 8 years I couldn't tell ya as I was never had disciplinary issues, no reason to look into it but in my place during my time there was someone who lost his job, was for missing days not being late. Another lost his job for stealing, crazy..

What's your disciplinary procedures? Do you try and help them or just get rid?

Teaching in a school ?

[Itchy]

I'm out of teaching 8 years I couldn't tell ya as I was never had disciplinary issues, no reason to look into it but in my place during my time there was someone who lost his job, was for missing days not being late. Another lost his job for stealing, crazy..

What's your disciplinary procedures? Do you try and help them or just get rid?

We try and help people first and foremost but there is only so much you can do. A the end of the day it's only a small % that go all the way to termination.  Most get their warning(s) and buck up their ideas. Which is the purpose of disciplinary, not to fire everyone.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm out of teaching 8 years I couldn't tell ya as I was never had disciplinary issues, no reason to look into it but in my place during my time there was someone who lost his job, was for missing days not being late. Another lost his job for stealing, crazy..

What's your disciplinary procedures? Do you try and help them or just get rid?

Teaching in a school ?

College

[delgany]

On the inspections is it not undermined when schools get notice?

That is correct, usually two weeks notice. As said previously, a lot of northern schools are self evaluative and they outline to ETI - what they have been improving in school. ETI will evolve into a quality assurance / consultancy approach in the next 18 months. Afaik, school inspections in the South are in their infancy - so can't comment

I am guessing you are a teacher? A simple question for you, what would happen in your school if a teacher repeatedly turned up late - for arguments sake, lets say 20 to 30 mins late, every couple of days. And lets assume that this particular teacher continued to do this over and over and over. Talk me through how the school would deal with this where it would end up if the teacher continued to do this.

If you want, I can then outline exactly what would happen in the company I work

What has a hypothetical situation got to do with anything?

Quite a lot actually when you compare how a teacher and a private sector worker would be treated for the same thing.

So far I've got one teacher say the teacher in my example would be told to fcuk off and a former teacher says he would be asked to leave at some point. Both show complete and total ignorance of employment law and mean that neither respondents have a clue what they are on about, probably because neither has ever seen a disciplinary process in action. That of course is because they are/were teachers.

Sorry, hadnt  time to respond earlier, was away getting my car serviced, so it is in good order, so Im not late for work ! But you didnt pick up on  that !  In 30 years , Ive never had a colleague , who deliberately was late for work in a continuous pattern. Indeed most teachers are in school at 8.30 for 9am , the boss appreciates their efforts !
Obviously the employing authority have procedures in place for disciplinary matters but Ive never had to use them  because their is a good professional working relationship within the school. Im sure the policy is the same as any private sector work place, no big deal. And yes, I would expect to get the head chewed off me for repeat offences ! ⁸

[Tony Baloney]

Time-keeping and discipline is a red herring. Performance on the job is the bigger issue. There is zero sanction for a teacher who delivers poor performance in the classroom. Delgany throws out some managerial waffle but the truth is schools are powerless to take on an under-performing individual and it's the pupils who suffer. As someone said earlier the public sector approach of en bloc pay awards means there is no real means of rewarding consistent good performance. It must be very demoralising for good people to sit in the staff room and know that some tool who does little work gets the same pay as someone who works hard.

[Jim Bob]

The dossers wouldn't I assume get any responsibility points that are offered by the BOGs

[Milltown Row2]

Time-keeping and discipline is a red herring. Performance on the job is the bigger issue. There is zero sanction for a teacher who delivers poor performance in the classroom. Delgany throws out some managerial waffle but the truth is schools are powerless to take on an under-performing individual and it's the pupils who suffer. As someone said earlier the public sector approach of en bloc pay awards means there is no real means of rewarding consistent good performance. It must be very demoralising for good people to sit in the staff room and know that some tool who does little work gets the same pay as someone who works hard.

In a school or over 200 staff, you will get the useless ones for sure, in your own place of work you'll have ones that do just enough to not lose their job, be in in the manufacturing side of things or up in management. That unfortunately is a fact of life. The problem I see here is those that have are hammering teachers are using a big brush to taint them all as useless hoors, hitting the Public sector as well.

I'd say the percentage is very low with regards to very underperforming teachers, the stories I hear of parents coming in and asking for their kids to be doing higher math when their kids struggled to get a C in GCSE is very common and shows you how deluded some parents are..

If you are not happy with a teachers performance make a report, send it to the principle and board of Governors, the role of a governor can be described as monitoring and evaluating the progress of the school. This involves being curious, critical, and confident in asking difficult questions.. They meet every so often and they would have to react to these letters that keep turning up..

[marty34]

Time-keeping and discipline is a red herring. Performance on the job is the bigger issue. There is zero sanction for a teacher who delivers poor performance in the classroom. Delgany throws out some managerial waffle but the truth is schools are powerless to take on an under-performing individual and it's the pupils who suffer. As someone said earlier the public sector approach of en bloc pay awards means there is no real means of rewarding consistent good performance. It must be very demoralising for good people to sit in the staff room and know that some tool who does little work gets the same pay as someone who works hard.

How is this defined?

All very good throwing this term out but how do you quantify it?

Impossible to do I think.

[delgany]

Time-keeping and discipline is a red herring. Performance on the job is the bigger issue. There is zero sanction for a teacher who delivers poor performance in the classroom. Delgany throws out some managerial waffle but the truth is schools are powerless to take on an under-performing individual and it's the pupils who suffer. As someone said earlier the public sector approach of en bloc pay awards means there is no real means of rewarding consistent good performance. It must be very demoralising for good people to sit in the staff room and know that some tool who does little work gets the same pay as someone who works hard.

Baloney, Tony 
I didnt bring up the example of time keeping ! And yes , I agree with your point that time keeping wouldnt be a significant issue.
Teachers do have performance targets to meet as part of school improvement. Data analysis is used extensively to indicate under performance
Schools/ BOG can place poorly performing teachers on an unsatisfactory performance process  involving re training, team teaching , professional support to raise their performance and outcomes.
Staff work in a collegiate approach to improve standards throughout a school, support colleagues to improve their understanding , we dont place them in a sack cloth....but ...its just more waffle, would you like maple syrup ?

[Itchy]

The time keeping was a simple example I created because time keeping is easy to measure and monitor, rather than for example teaching ability which is subjective. Some on here, some who are teachers, find it hard to grasp the notion that a simple example might be used to explore a point.

[Itchy]

Time-keeping and discipline is a red herring. Performance on the job is the bigger issue. There is zero sanction for a teacher who delivers poor performance in the classroom. Delgany throws out some managerial waffle but the truth is schools are powerless to take on an under-performing individual and it's the pupils who suffer. As someone said earlier the public sector approach of en bloc pay awards means there is no real means of rewarding consistent good performance. It must be very demoralising for good people to sit in the staff room and know that some tool who does little work gets the same pay as someone who works hard.

How is this defined?

All very good throwing this term out but how do you quantify it?

Impossible to do I think.

Trend average results year on year.

[Milltown Row2]

The time keeping was a simple example I created because time keeping is easy to measure and monitor, rather than for example teaching ability which is subjective. Some on here, some who are teachers, find it hard to grasp the notion that a simple example might be used to explore a point.

Did we ever get to the point of that particular exploration?

Late bad early good

[delgany]

Time-keeping and discipline is a red herring. Performance on the job is the bigger issue. There is zero sanction for a teacher who delivers poor performance in the classroom. Delgany throws out some managerial waffle but the truth is schools are powerless to take on an under-performing individual and it's the pupils who suffer. As someone said earlier the public sector approach of en bloc pay awards means there is no real means of rewarding consistent good performance. It must be very demoralising for good people to sit in the staff room and know that some tool who does little work gets the same pay as someone who works hard.

How is this defined?

All very good throwing this term out but how do you quantify it?

Impossible to do I think.

Trend average results year on year.

In the North, schools use pupil performance standardised tests to generate data , year on year, to measure improvement per child, per class/ teacher/ year group/ gender/ Free school meals/ whole school. This data drives school improvement in core subjects in primary  and subjects in secondary schools. 
Under performance is dealt with in a range of methods.
Im not sure if schools in Ireland would be as Data driven?

[GiveItToTheShooters]

Says the north then says Ireland, as if he's a foreigner Are these clowns actually teaching children?

[Milltown Row2]

Think he was just showing a difference in how schools in different parts of the country as Itchy has his beef with schools in his area