The Fine Gael thread

[Franko]

Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

If you actually read the article, he doesn't propose to close NAMA now.  He says that for some reasons it should be shut now, but we can't because it's now 'too big to fail'.  Which is essentially what you are saying I think.  If you actually read the piece without prejudice it's a real eye-opener.

'Too big to fail' is a derogatory term, and explains nothing. For a start, it hasn't 'failed' in any financial sense.

NAMA has actually done ok. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending what brought it about, nor the secrecy under which it is run and the basic conning of the taxpayer when it was set up. But for those charged with running it, it has done ok imho.

As for Brendan O'Connor, read this and smile: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html

Yeah, in fairness that article does make him sound like a bit of a pillock. Though had it been written in 2009/2010 it might not have been far off the mark. Anyone who bought in Dublin at that time is looking at a 30-40% gain right now. And that's with the cheapest borrowed money in history. Anyway, it doesn't really matter what 'too big to fail' means. You said that he stated that NAMA should be shut immediately, when he clearly didn't. He basically said he'd love to, but the reality of the situation means we can't. O'Connor seems to be adept enough at making himself look foolish without your help. 
Also, could you explain how you think that NAMA have done OK? They took a load of property at below market rates at the time, held onto it until the market rose (safe in the knowledge that they couldn't lose, no matter what happened) and offloaded it at the break even point when the market allowed them to do so. The whole Cerberus/Project Eagle deal makes me suspect that the current NAMA are every bit as bad as the sliveen developers and politicians who sunk the ship in the first place. Except this time they're doing it with your money and have government support and a cloud of legislative smoke within which to operate to keep a questioning public at arms length.

[muppet]

Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

If you actually read the article, he doesn't propose to close NAMA now.  He says that for some reasons it should be shut now, but we can't because it's now 'too big to fail'.  Which is essentially what you are saying I think.  If you actually read the piece without prejudice it's a real eye-opener.

'Too big to fail' is a derogatory term, and explains nothing. For a start, it hasn't 'failed' in any financial sense.

NAMA has actually done ok. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending what brought it about, nor the secrecy under which it is run and the basic conning of the taxpayer when it was set up. But for those charged with running it, it has done ok imho.

As for Brendan O'Connor, read this and smile: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html

Yeah, in fairness that article does make him sound like a bit of a pillock. Though had it been written in 2009/2010 it might not have been far off the mark. Anyone who bought in Dublin at that time is looking at a 30-40% gain right now. And that's with the cheapest borrowed money in history. Anyway, it doesn't really matter what 'too big to fail' means. You said that he stated that NAMA should be shut immediately, when he clearly didn't. He basically said he'd love to, but the reality of the situation means we can't. O'Connor seems to be adept enough at making himself look foolish without your help. 
Also, could you explain how you think that NAMA have done OK? They took a load of property at below market rates at the time, held onto it until the market rose (safe in the knowledge that they couldn't lose, no matter what happened) and offloaded it at the break even point when the market allowed them to do so. The whole Cerberus/Project Eagle deal makes me suspect that the current NAMA are every bit as bad as the sliveen developers and politicians who sunk the ship in the first place. Except this time they're doing it with your money and have government support and a cloud of legislative smoke within which to operate to keep a questioning public at arms length.

That is not correct. They took a load of property loans off the banks, using borrowed money guaranteed by us, but it certainly wasn't market rate. There was no market and some of the property they had to take was worthless. I am sure there were some properties that might have been close to market rate, but it is debatable if there was even a market then. Some of the properties have never recovered to market rate.

As for O'Connor, this is what he said:

On that score Nama has undoubtedly failed and so it should be shut down now.

But Nama, like so many finance behemoths before, is too big to fail now.

He clearly states that it shut down, but reckons that it can't because it is too big to fail. Firstly it hasn't failed. Secondly it is a lot smaller than it used to be and is getting smaller every year.

Finally the reason he gave for announcing that it has failed, in his view, was "The central purpose of Nama, which admittedly doesn't get mentioned much anymore, was to provide for a functioning banking system and to ensure the flow of credit in the economy."

This is very lazy analysis. The function of NAMA was to remove the toxic loans from the banks. Further to that it was hoped by Lenihan, Cowan and the mandarins of the Dept of Finance etc that this would allow the banks covered by The Guarantee to start functioning again. What has failed is not NAMA, it is the banks and the rest of the plan.

I hate that NAMA was foisted upon us, at our risk, but we shouldn't kick the people that work there who have by and large done exactly what they were told to do, and actually succeeded. The lack of flow of credit in the economy has nothing to do with NAMA, it has everything to do with the ECB, Irish Central Bank, Dept of Finance etc.

[mikehunt]

http://www.thejournal.ie/john-perry-wife-2001142-Mar2015/

Quotes from this year old article :

"Transport Minister Paschal Donohoe believes TDs should not appoint family members as parliamentary assistants"

"Speaking in Brussels this afternoon, Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he did not think it was "a wise thing for politicians to appoint family members"".

One year later....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/revealed-fg-tds-appoint-relatives-as-their-dil-assistants-34571302.html

New politics, new way of doing things?

[heffo]

http://www.thejournal.ie/john-perry-wife-2001142-Mar2015/

Quotes from this year old article :

"Transport Minister Paschal Donohoe believes TDs should not appoint family members as parliamentary assistants"

"Speaking in Brussels this afternoon, Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he did not think it was "a wise thing for politicians to appoint family members"".

One year later....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/revealed-fg-tds-appoint-relatives-as-their-dil-assistants-34571302.html

New politics, new way of doing things?

When the Shinners get into Government I wonder if the legions of community workers employed will be from within the ranks of ex-armed robbers/misc violent thugs or will they be selected on merit in an open competition?

[foxcommander]

So here's the Line-up of Fine Gael GFC (Greedy F****** C ****)

1. Communications - Denis Naughten
2. Regional Development, Rural Affairs and Arts and Culture - Heather Humphreys
3. Jobs - Mary Mitchell O'Connor
4. Public Expenditure and Reform - Paschal Donohoe
5. Foreign Affairs - Charlie Flanagan
6. Defence - The Taoiseach (captain)
7. Education & Skills - Richard Bruton
8. Justice - Frances Fitzgerald (vice-captain)
9. Housing - Simon Coveney
10. Children - Katherine Zappone
11. Social Protection - Leo Varadkar
12. Agriculture - Michael Creed
13. Health - Simon Harris
14. Finance - Michael Noonan
15. Transport - Shane Ross

16. Super Junior Disabilty - Finian McGrath

Fitzgerald is now Tainiste. And there was me thinking that the lovely girl from Donegal, FF's Mary Coughlan was the worst ever. How wrong can you be?

Mary Mitchell O'Connor. Holy fook.

[yellowcard]

This has the potential to be entertaining given the reshuffle. Ross as minister for transport, holy fcuk!! O'Connor and Fitzgerald are selected to bring up the quota but are poor choices. God help Harris getting the health poisoned chalice.

[mikehunt]

I'm surprised Kenny didn't give her transport after her Top Gear escapade at the start of the last Dail. 

[foxcommander]

I'm surprised Kenny didn't give her transport after her Top Gear escapade at the start of the last Dail.

That would have been too funny.

Still one of my favourites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gulc2nw4oro

[Cunny Funt]

[armaghniac]

I think this constant reference to SF is sometimes a bit over the top.

[trileacman]

I grow really, really f**king tired of this constant sneering and derision of democraticaly elected politicians. Fair enough when they f**k it up but when they're all constantly painted as greedy feckless w@nkers it has now become cemented in the mindset of the population as if it's fact. Politicians are like footballers or hurlers, a pretty accurate representation of Irish people. Some of them are w@nkers, some of them are stupid but a fair few are decent hard-working and compassionate individuals.

The way democracy and politicians are mocked and derided almost constantly nowadays does rile me. I wonder do those who spend so much of their time ridiculing democracy favour an Ireland where we toil under a monarchy or dictatorship. This is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.

[Rossfan]

Better than the alternatives anyway - North Korea. Saudi Arabia, Bahrain......

[armaghniac]

I grow really, really f**king tired of this constant sneering and derision of democraticaly elected politicians. Fair enough when they f**k it up but when they're all constantly painted as greedy feckless w@nkers it has now become cemented in the mindset of the population as if it's fact. Politicians are like footballers or hurlers, a pretty accurate representation of Irish people. Some of them are w@nkers, some of them are stupid but a fair few are decent hard-working and compassionate individuals.

The way democracy and politicians are mocked and derided almost constantly nowadays does rile me. I wonder do those who spend so much of their time ridiculing democracy favour an Ireland where we toil under a monarchy or dictatorship. This is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.

There is some truth in this point, but Irish politicians have perpetuated a dysfunctional culture that does not serve the country well. Like the Donegal team circa 2009, they could do a lot better.

And since this is the Fine Gael thread, they are a good example. They promised a new policy on openness etc, which they conveniently forgot when they were elected and despite all of the turmoil in the country we got Irish Water, which should have been a model of new way of doing things but was the very opposite.

[foxcommander]

I grow really, really f**king tired of this constant sneering and derision of democraticaly elected politicians. Fair enough when they f**k it up but when they're all constantly painted as greedy feckless w@nkers it has now become cemented in the mindset of the population as if it's fact. Politicians are like footballers or hurlers, a pretty accurate representation of Irish people. Some of them are w@nkers, some of them are stupid but a fair few are decent hard-working and compassionate individuals.

The way democracy and politicians are mocked and derided almost constantly nowadays does rile me. I wonder do those who spend so much of their time ridiculing democracy favour an Ireland where we toil under a monarchy or dictatorship. This is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.

Oh boo feckin hoo Trileacman. What a load of cr@p.
They don't have to try to be painted as greedy feckless w@nkers , they just are. Decent hard working and compassionate individuals??? what drugs are you on?

They deserve the flak they get due to the awful decisions they make. Or would you prefer silence for some reason?
Not hard to guess how you voted in the election.

[Declan]

Figures from the recent election

Total electorate - 3,298,827
Total poll - 2,151,293
Didn't vote - 1,147,534

65.2% turnout

A significant number of people don't bother to participate and in Dublin Central the turnout was 52.4% because they know it's not worth voting?