The Fine Gael thread

[macdanger2]

ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!

If you haven't paid it all then you haven't paid it. End of.

If your definition of "paid it all" is paying for it twice then for once you are correct, I have not paid for it twice.

If IW is privatised as you want it to be mike, will you pay your water charges then?? The private company won't be getting any of your motor tax

[mikehunt]

ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!

If you haven't paid it all then you haven't paid it. End of.

If your definition of "paid it all" is paying for it twice then for once you are correct, I have not paid for it twice.

If IW is privatised as you want it to be mike, will you pay your water charges then?? The private company won't be getting any of your motor tax

A private company wouldn't charge me twice.

[mikehunt]

Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.

The fact that the asset has decreased in value has ZERO effect on your ability to pay mike. Why is that fact difficult to grasp??

If we divide society into those who own a house and those who don't, which group would you say are better off??

But of course, you're not paying because of your empathy with those who are unable to pay, that's a good one   

His point wasn't about ability to pay. His point was that if you own a house you must be welll off which is not the case as I've clearly explained.

[armaghniac]

A private company wouldn't charge me twice.

Nobody is charging you twice, part of the payment comes from Motor Tax, part from the bill.
You haven't paid it all, so you haven't paid.
Continuing to use a service without paying is theft.

A bit like paying standing charge on your electricity bill and refusing to pay the unit charge "because you've already paid".

[mikehunt]

A private company wouldn't charge me twice.

Nobody is charging you twice, part of the payment comes from Motor Tax, part from the bill.
You haven't paid it all, so you haven't paid.
Continuing to use a service without paying is theft.

A bit like paying standing charge on your electricity bill and refusing to pay the unit charge "because you've already paid".

So if tax payers didn't pay for water prior to Irish Water being set up who did? Did Mommy tell you it was the tooth fairy or santa?

[Hardy]

[macdanger2]

Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.

The fact that the asset has decreased in value has ZERO effect on your ability to pay mike. Why is that fact difficult to grasp??

If we divide society into those who own a house and those who don't, which group would you say are better off??

But of course, you're not paying because of your empathy with those who are unable to pay, that's a good one   

His point wasn't about ability to pay. His point was that if you own a house you must be welll off which is not the case as I've clearly explained.

I know exactly what "his" point is, I'm just wondering why you're bringing an irrelevance like negative equity into the discussion??

If you own a house and are able to pay the mortgage, you are reasonably well off and you're certainly not the poorest in society. I'm not sure how you can dispute that

[foxcommander]

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

[foxcommander]

Daily queues at Capuchin Day Centre, Bow St, Dublin.

This is Ireland.

[armaghniac]

So if tax payers didn't pay for water prior to Irish Water being set up who did? Did Mommy tell you it was the tooth fairy or santa?

How water was paid for in the past is literally water under the bridge. The issue is how it is paid for today.
It used be paid for by rates, do you keep on paying rates because that is how it was before?

[macdanger2]

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax

[mikehunt]

You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

[foxcommander]

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax

If you actually read my post again I said people had difficulty paying their mortages, nevermind the extras.

You mentioned in earlier ramblings USC, Property Tax, Water Tax, Motor Tax - I merely pointed out people may not have the capacity to pay.

Just give the government all your money. You know you want to. Simples.

[macdanger2]

You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??

[macdanger2]

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax

If you actually read my post again I said people had difficulty paying their mortages, nevermind the extras.

You mentioned in earlier ramblings USC, Property Tax, Water Tax, Motor Tax - I merely pointed out people may not have the capacity to pay.

Just give the government all your money. You know you want to. Simples.

Hmm, you replied to a post where I was discussing the property tax, apologies for assuming that your point was also related to that subject matter.

I never mentioned USC, water tax or anything else. It's a pretty simple point I'm making here fox - the policy of many parties to abolish the property tax is a ridiculous policy, imo of course. What's your view on abolition of the property tax? A fair policy?