The Fine Gael thread

[Rossfan]

Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html

I wouldn't be happy if the next govt are beholding to one or two independents and certainly not to Lowry. The fact that he tops the poll in North Tipp (not to mention "team Lowry" who run in the local elections) is a serious indictment on us as an electorate

One of the downsides of freedom and democracy is that we can vote for who we like.
Better than the alternative systems though.

[mikehunt]

Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.

+1 + Housing crisis.
Anti water charge yokes are some effin goons alright.

A f**king national embarrassment tbh .  Ditto the property tax . 

Largely socialists objecting to what is seen as staples in European social democracies.

We don't have any political ideology in this country.

The anti was thing was big even before siteserv got any of the contracts.

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Your silence on the awarding of contracts tells me all I need to know. If you think water protestors should pay up do you not agree that Denis O Brien should pay his debts also?

[armaghniac]

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Which Denis O'Brien debt are you talking about?
Siteserv was a construction company that weny bust in the boom, like many more, but had some good people. It wasn't worth anything, but could become a success if taken over by someone with the resources to recapitalise it. 

Not at all like someone deliberately using public water and refusing to pay their bill.

[ashman]

Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

[foxcommander]

Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

ah shure that's grand so. nothing to see here folks

I believe in happy co-incidences too, enjoy your 100 million writeoff.

[foxcommander]

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Which Denis O'Brien debt are you talking about?
Siteserv was a construction company that weny bust in the boom, like many more, but had some good people. It wasn't worth anything, but could become a success if taken over by someone with the resources to recapitalise it. 

Not at all like someone deliberately using public water and refusing to pay their bill.

Exactly. Should make them die of thirst. Peasants.

[mikehunt]

Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Limited Liability. Denis O Brien controlled companies got massive write downs on it's debt. Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6% or 7% and effectively lending it to DOB at 1.5% . Who was making up the shortfall? Not only do they give him cheap interest rates, they also award contracts to a company he recently bought. I just can't fathom how someone who is unable to service his debt is able to go out and purchase a company.

I think what you're trying to say is that it's ok for the rich man to not pay his debts but the ordinary man has to. Denis O Brien is entitled to act in his best interests, my problem is with the people that facilitate his actions, ie the govt. To think your amazement is directed to non-payers of Water Charges is typical Paddy, don't dare complain, bow down to your masters. We get what we vote for I suppose.

Oh and the "boogie" man is quite real, he's dancing in delight.

[foxcommander]

Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Limited Liability. Denis O Brien controlled companies got massive write downs on it's debt. Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6% or 7% and effectively lending it to DOB at 1.5% . Who was making up the shortfall? Not only do they give him cheap interest rates, they also award contracts to a company he recently bought. I just can't fathom how someone who is unable to service his debt is able to go out and purchase a company.

I think what you're trying to say is that it's ok for the rich man to not pay his debts but the ordinary man has to. Denis O Brien is entitled to act in his best interests, my problem is with the people that facilitate his actions, ie the govt. To think your amazement is directed to non-payers of Water Charges is typical Paddy, don't dare complain, bow down to your masters. We get what we vote for I suppose.

Oh and the "boogie" man is quite real, he's dancing in delight.

It's the same slave mentality that allowed the brits to lord it for centurys. Ash, armaniac etc are only happy to be kneeling lickspittles - must be in their bloodline.

[mikehunt]

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Which Denis O'Brien debt are you talking about?
Siteserv was a construction company that weny bust in the boom, like many more, but had some good people. It wasn't worth anything, but could become a success if taken over by someone with the resources to recapitalise it. 

Not at all like someone deliberately using public water and refusing to pay their bill.

Owners of an INSOLVENT company were given 5 million of taxpayers money as a sweetener to sell. This company was then bought by Denis O Brien (who it appears was unable to service his debt at the same time). State contracts were awarded to this company afterwards. Higher bids were received and conveniently turned down. Siteserve was capitalised by the taxpayer but it's not the taxpayer who benefits from profits. Penny starting to drop with you yet?

[ashman]

Mike

Unfortunately that is the way the world works. If you owe the bank a few thousand you are fcukwis if you owe them millions the bank is fcuked.

Banks restructure corporate loans based on ability to pay .  Bottom line is that the Siteserv boys held out for a deal.  In these cases I bet the colleteral wasn't great. 

Again I don't like this much either and ideally I "d rather not pay fees for water but these are statutory charges voted by the national parliament .   

[ashman]

Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Limited Liability. Denis O Brien controlled companies got massive write downs on it's debt. Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6% or 7% and effectively lending it to DOB at 1.5% . Who was making up the shortfall? Not only do they give him cheap interest rates, they also award contracts to a company he recently bought. I just can't fathom how someone who is unable to service his debt is able to go out and purchase a company.

I think what you're trying to say is that it's ok for the rich man to not pay his debts but the ordinary man has to. Denis O Brien is entitled to act in his best interests, my problem is with the people that facilitate his actions, ie the govt. To think your amazement is directed to non-payers of Water Charges is typical Paddy, don't dare complain, bow down to your masters. We get what we vote for I suppose.

Oh and the "boogie" man is quite real, he's dancing in delight.

It's the same slave mentality that allowed the brits to lord it for centurys. Ash, armaniac etc are only happy to be kneeling lickspittles - must be in their bloodline.

Snarl , growl , gnarl. !!!!
I am a hard Cnut ; look at my tattoos : gnrrrrrrrrl

[macdanger2]

Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html

I wouldn't be happy if the next govt are beholding to one or two independents and certainly not to Lowry. The fact that he tops the poll in North Tipp (not to mention "team Lowry" who run in the local elections) is a serious indictment on us as an electorate

One of the downsides of freedom and democracy is that we can vote for who we like.
Better than the alternative systems though.

That's a cop out Ross, Lowry is a crook as bad if not worse than Charlie, Bertie, Lawlor, etc.

[Rossfan]

Of course he is but the good people of Tipp have the right to vote for whom so ever they wish and can't be forced to only vote for peoplewe approve of.
That's democracy.

[macdanger2]

Of course he is but the good people of Tipp have the right to vote for whom so ever they wish and can't be forced to only vote for peoplewe approve of.
That's democracy.

That's self-interest on the part of the electorate

[foxcommander]

Mike

Unfortunately that is the way the world works. If you owe the bank a few thousand you are fcukwis if you owe them millions the bank is fcuked.

Banks restructure corporate loans based on ability to pay .  Bottom line is that the Siteserv boys held out for a deal.  In these cases I bet the colleteral wasn't great. 

Again I don't like this much either and ideally I "d rather not pay fees for water but these are statutory charges voted by the national parliament .

So you do what you're told like a good little boy and don't even question it.
I think I proved my point.