The Fine Gael thread

[Rossfan]

? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
Can I take it you don't live in Ireland any more?
Your narrow literal take on a throw away remark would suggest you've lost touch with the Irish way of saying things.
As for Leo - at least be cut the bullsh1te when he went to Health.
He said " I need more money if I'm to run a Health Service".

Translation: I said something really stupid and am now resorting to claiming the other person lacks some mystical ability to read between the lines rather than admitting it.

Let's cut the bullsh1te. You are an apologist for everything that Fine Gael say and do - you don't have to be a member of the party to be that - which makes your contribution on any political topic about as useful as anything the Shinner bots might say.

Edit: the more I think about it  . . . I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it . . . I've "lost touch with the Irish way of saying things"? Maybe it's my English wife that has diluted my ability to commune with the spirit of Irishness. Does this mean my half-Anglo son can never truly understand the way his peers talk, always condemned to be on the outside of any conversation thanks to all the apples-and-pears talk he hears at home? It's the same kind of (hard of) thinking you see from the Shinners that I find so contemptible. You should be thoroughly ashamed of that comment.

Jasuz but that's some abusive inaccurate rant to throw at anyone.
You're the only one to bring your wife and son into it.

[foxcommander]

Leaving Rossfans insults at Deiseach to one side does anyone think that FG was right to give Paddy Cosgrave the cold shoulder with his demands for the Web Summit?

[Declan]

For a self confessed entrepreneur Paddy does some whinging about the lack of Government support. Nothing much they can do about hotel prices, the wifi in the RDS or traffic management directly. Only issue was the public transport but that's not a short term resolution

[mikehunt]

Leaving Rossfans insults at Deiseach to one side does anyone think that FG was right to give Paddy Cosgrave the cold shoulder with his demands for the Web Summit?

Bottle bank opening in Belmullet clashing with 2016 Web Summit.  Only one winner in that clash.

[armaghniac]

For a self confessed entrepreneur Paddy does some whinging about the lack of Government support. Nothing much they can do about hotel prices, the wifi in the RDS or traffic management directly. Only issue was the public transport but that's not a short term resolution

Room prices are capped in many countries, a figure of €300 or the like would allow hotels do well without gouging. Traffic management is a public function, although the wifi in the RDS isn't really a government issue. Public transport is also regulated by government, although the former railway connection to the RDS is now a Toyota dealer.

I think here at least some people in public employ decided not to bother.

[foxcommander]

For a self confessed entrepreneur Paddy does some whinging about the lack of Government support. Nothing much they can do about hotel prices, the wifi in the RDS or traffic management directly. Only issue was the public transport but that's not a short term resolution

For once I agree with Fine Gael. I don't see why the government should be threatened by an "entrepreneur" requesting state facilities to be put at his disposal.

[foxcommander]

Speaking of entrepreneurs...this is fairly worrying that he can have offices raided...

"Mr O'Brien's lawyers went to the High Court yesterday seeking orders to allow them to search Red Flag's premises"

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1014/734819-denis-obrien/

[Mayo4Sam]

On the web summit, I get the impression that Paddy Cosgrove wanted an excuse, let's face it Lisbon is twice the size of Dublin, economically it makes perfect sense. He's not beyond staging something like this.
Asking for the government to do something About the wifi in the RDS or hotel prices, FFS, what does he want the government to do? Tell the RDS they have to allow a third party in? Paddy could easily have moved it to the Aviva or Croke Park and gotten all that.
The traffic was a reasonable request but I don't think it was a huge issue last year.

Paddy isn't the most likeable fella but u have to admire the web summit but this is a stunt.

Having said that the government didn't exactly cover themselves in glory but Paddy would have known they were a slow moving bunch anyway

[muppet]

It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.

Yes deiseach. Value for money versus just throwing more money at it. The health budget is fairly massive, but the money is being wasted in so many ways.

Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.

It isn't all about 'private interests'. Taxpayers have a right to demand fairness and see value for money. It is bad enough of being gouged for substandard services but then being constantly abused by the far-left for not being gouged enough is hard to take.

[Canalman]

Think FG will regret not having the GE in the next month or so. Pretty positive soundings now.
Am amazed that they will risk a "winter of discontent" or "events" .

Still think we will be facing two quick elections before a stable government emerges .

FG will do well but will find it hard to get a coalition partner.

[armaghniac]

Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.

I would use the word unprincipled rather than principle-free.
Of course there are many principles that might be applied, one might be that people who work should not have their money taken from them and given to those who prefer not to work.

It isn't all about 'private interests'. Taxpayers have a right to demand fairness and see value for money. It is bad enough of being gouged for substandard services but then being constantly abused by the far-left for not being gouged enough is hard to take.

Unfortunately "value for money"is rarely part of the debate at all. There is never a debate that says, this is reasonable value for money, that is not, lets concentrate on improving the latter.  It is either all public expenditure is a waste or there isn't enough money.

[muppet]

Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.

I would use the word unprincipled rather than principle-free.
Of course there are many principles that might be applied, one might be that people who work should not have their money taken from them and given to those who prefer not to work.

It isn't all about 'private interests'. Taxpayers have a right to demand fairness and see value for money. It is bad enough of being gouged for substandard services but then being constantly abused by the far-left for not being gouged enough is hard to take.

Unfortunately "value for money"is rarely part of the debate at all. There is never a debate that says, this is reasonable value for money, that is not, lets concentrate on improving the latter.  It is either all public expenditure is a waste or there isn't enough money.

I didn't make my point very well. It is about labels. Ulick positions SF as demanding free health and education for all, and quickly labels anyone who scrutinises this noble ideal as the dreaded 'private interests'. Us good, them bad.

It is a well worn tactic, 'Axis of Evil', 'War on Terror'. Basically 'themmuns' are doing you out of something, threatening you or are going to eat your children.

[Rossfan]

And yet SF are against taxes and are cutting them in every Council they have any clout.
Then they are the first to moan when said Councils aren't able to afford to do something.

[armaghniac]

Exactly.SF go on about homelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.

[mikehunt]

Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.

Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.