The Fine Gael thread

[AZOffaly]

I don't think that's unusual Declan. Most of those type of shows have the questions pre-vetted so that the politician has a chance to research figures etc. I'm pretty sure those studio TV shows like Question Time in the UK and Questions and Answers here are the same. I remember my Uncle was trade union rep for London Bus, and he was on Question Time as an audience member with a question for Tony Blair. His question was submitted the day before, but he was allowed actually 'ask' it from the floor when the show was being broadcast.

Follow up questions are usually not scripted, but I suppose I can see the value of allowing them research some meaningful answers.

[Declan]

I understand the Question Time type shows AZ as they are usually filled with party hacks etc and to minimise the risk of a lunatic etc. But this is the main State Broadcaster the day after the budget when all the prep had been done and handlers refusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves - I know there is a broad agreement about the approach interviews take but this sort of micro management shows how scared they are of actual debate and, I'm loath to use the term but, "free speech". 

[Rossfan]

God help ya Declan but you're awful innocent
Where have you been for the last few decades since this kind of thing first started.

[AZOffaly]

I understand the Question Time type shows AZ as they are usually filled with party hacks etc and to minimise the risk of a lunatic etc. But this is the main State Broadcaster the day after the budget when all the prep had been done and handlers refusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves - I know there is a broad agreement about the approach interviews take but this sort of micro management shows how scared they are of actual debate and, I'm loath to use the term but, "free speech".

Not sure. I think you might be making more of this than is actually there. I don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them. To be honest, if I had emailed a question in, I'd be happier if they went away and researched it, rather than gave the stock political non-answer to a question they don't know.

[deiseach]

3,000 bedstaken out in 1987 were never restored. Will cost €s to do so.
Martin, Cowen, Harney, Reilly and Varadkar all humans who tried and failed.
Time Leo sent for the expert Mr Deiseach who obviously has the answer

If 'Leo' does ask me for advice, I'd tell him that there are better systems out there. If he asks you for advice, you'll tell him that it can't be fixed. I was acquainted with him in college and found him to be a likeable and open-minded man - shure isn't he one of our own? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

[Declan]

God help ya Declan but you're awful innocent
Where have you been for the last few decades since this kind of thing first started.

Maybe but as I said I've heard of a broad approach to topics being agreed beforehand but never  give me the list of all the questions or else I'm not going on.

Not sure. I think you might be making more of this than is actually there. I don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them. To be honest, if I had emailed a question in, I'd be happier if they went away and researched it, rather than gave the stock political non-answer to a question they don't know.

Well I think this shows they refused - "No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded

Anyway my main point was not so much at the politicians but RTE's acquiescence - in the circumstance it's the budget, the handlers and ministers had flagged and leaked enough info beforehand to ensure a favourable reception and would have been fully prepped on scenarios and bog standard questions. It shows an innate lack of self confidence in their ability to think on your feet and to respond to situations but then again that shouldn't surprise me either given their background, history and performances over their careers   

[AZOffaly]

No, they refused to go on without seeing the questions. They didn't refuse to answer any of the questions. And I think this is common practice across political programmes across the world.

[Rossfan]

? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
Can I take it you don't live in Ireland any more?
Your narrow literal take on a throw away remark would suggest you've lost touch with the Irish way of saying things.
As for Leo - at least be cut the bullsh1te when he went to Health.
He said " I need more money if I'm to run a Health Service".

[Declan]

Ok I'm going to be a pedantic now

I don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them

I never said they refused to answer any questions - my initial response was

refusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves

No, they refused to go on without seeing the questions. They didn't refuse to answer any of the questions. And I think this is common practice across political programmes across the world.

and then I said

Well I think this shows they refused - "No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded

I think that means that we disagree to agree 

[deiseach]

? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
Can I take it you don't live in Ireland any more?
Your narrow literal take on a throw away remark would suggest you've lost touch with the Irish way of saying things.
As for Leo - at least be cut the bullsh1te when he went to Health.
He said " I need more money if I'm to run a Health Service".

Translation: I said something really stupid and am now resorting to claiming the other person lacks some mystical ability to read between the lines rather than admitting it.

Let's cut the bullsh1te. You are an apologist for everything that Fine Gael say and do - you don't have to be a member of the party to be that - which makes your contribution on any political topic about as useful as anything the Shinner bots might say.

Edit: the more I think about it  . . . I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it . . . I've "lost touch with the Irish way of saying things"? Maybe it's my English wife that has diluted my ability to commune with the spirit of Irishness. Does this mean my half-Anglo son can never truly understand the way his peers talk, always condemned to be on the outside of any conversation thanks to all the apples-and-pears talk he hears at home? It's the same kind of (hard of) thinking you see from the Shinners that I find so contemptible. You should be thoroughly ashamed of that comment.

[Ulick]

Everyone is paying less tax, not so much as a case of using people's money to bribe them but of taking less money off the people.

As noted before the health service is often fine, but has some astonishing failings which are  rightly widely publicised. These failures of management reflect failures all the way up to the political system, and SF proposals to cut doctors pay for political reasons is a good example of this. 

It is worth noting that people live longer in the 26 counties than the 6. SF might well either look to the administration of the part of the country where it is in government or else try and achieve a United Ireland; sadly it does neither of these things.

You may want to argue over systematics but it amounts to the same thing. I think there are plenty of SF threads about for you to derail if you wish rather tan the FG one.

[Ulick]

If 'Leo' does ask me for advice, I'd tell him that there are better systems out there. If he asks you for advice, you'll tell him that it can't be fixed. I was acquainted with him in college and found him to be a likeable and open-minded man - shure isn't he one of our own? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

One of our own?

€18k per year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King's_Hospital

[deiseach]

If 'Leo' does ask me for advice, I'd tell him that there are better systems out there. If he asks you for advice, you'll tell him that it can't be fixed. I was acquainted with him in college and found him to be a likeable and open-minded man - shure isn't he one of our own? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

One of our own?

€18k per year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King's_Hospital

His mother is from Dungarvan.

[AZOffaly]

Ok I'm going to be a pedantic now

I don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them

I never said they refused to answer any questions - my initial response was

refusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves

No, they refused to go on without seeing the questions. They didn't refuse to answer any of the questions. And I think this is common practice across political programmes across the world.

and then I said

Well I think this shows they refused - "No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded

I think that means that we disagree to agree 

No need to be pedantic. I was following along with you ok. What I was saying was that, even though I understand you not liking the handlers demanding to see the questions before the ministers went on air, that is not the same thing, or as bad as, if they had actually refused to handle any of the questions they were then shown.

Preparation as opposed to avoidance, if you catch my drift.

Anyway, they are all langers, so it's no skin off my nose, but this story is trying to make something more of what is a regular occurrence around the world.

[Ulick]

It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.

Yes deiseach. Value for money versus just throwing more money at it. The health budget is fairly massive, but the money is being wasted in so many ways.

Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.