The Fine Gael thread

[foxcommander]

So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?

You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?

They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.

Such as?

Lets start with government pensions/payments/parachutes including all past politicians.

How about them leading by example first.

I couldn't agree more.

Now show me which party has that as their policy and I will vote for them 100%.

It's a shame that wasn't included in the troika's terms for the bailout plan.
Problem is that while these payments are ringfenced the ordinary citizen's wages aren't.

It's not a democratic society whenever such sums are being paid out to failed politicians.
over 30 ex TD's and Taoiseach receive 100k+ per annum. Some of these lot are responsible for the state of the country.

I don't care if it's in a contract that they get these sums. That contract should be null and void.

To answer your question muppet: there are a few select politicians who are in it for the right reasons but the majority want on that gravy train...

sitting on your hole for 10 years and getting 1 million euro in the process doesnt sound so bad.

[Farrandeelin]

What happened Noonan's eye?

[muppet]

https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf

Have a read of the commitments given. Most have been honoured, except a lot of the PS stuff.

I understand that the Croke Parke Agreement expired last year. The Government had committed to further PS finances reform, especially the astronomical PS pension bill which is around €3bn p/a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

When you consider Government revenue has been as low as €30n recently and was probably around €36n last year, €3bn is an awful lot to give just to retired PS workers.

FF/PD/Greens created this PS financial monster. FG/Labour have done absolutely nothing about it. And now it looks likely that we will have a left-wing Government next time out. Does anyone seriously think they will tackle this problem?

[Rossfan]

https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf

a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

[/quote

Mr Muppet - most public servants (Council ,HSE etc) have had 6.5% of their pay deducted . Civil servants who work directly for Govt didn't gave this deduction.
The 6.5% deductions are used to pay current pensioners.

[armaghniac]

https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf

Have a read of the commitments given. Most have been honoured, except a lot of the PS stuff.

I understand that the Croke Parke Agreement expired last year. The Government had committed to further PS finances reform, especially the astronomical PS pension bill which is around €3bn p/a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

Because more retirees are in the old system they do not receive the old age pension, so their pensions are larger than an equivalent group of private sector people as a consequence. In another decade or two people will start retiring with pensions reduced by the old age pension, this will have no effect whatsoever on the public finances but the PS pension bill will fall.

When you consider Government revenue has been as low as €30n recently and was probably around €36n last year, €3bn is an awful lot to give just to retired PS workers.

Government revenue has never been €30bn, more like €50bn, but don't let facts spoil a rant.

[foxcommander]

Young Enda had such hopes for the future...

[foxcommander]

[muppet]

https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf

Have a read of the commitments given. Most have been honoured, except a lot of the PS stuff.

I understand that the Croke Parke Agreement expired last year. The Government had committed to further PS finances reform, especially the astronomical PS pension bill which is around €3bn p/a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

Because more retirees are in the old system they do not receive the old age pension, so their pensions are larger than an equivalent group of private sector people as a consequence. In another decade or two people will start retiring with pensions reduced by the old age pension, this will have no effect whatsoever on the public finances but the PS pension bill will fall.

When you consider Government revenue has been as low as €30n recently and was probably around €36n last year, €3bn is an awful lot to give just to retired PS workers.

Government revenue has never been €30bn, more like €50bn, but don't let facts spoil a rant.

I should have said tax revenue.

[mikehunt]

So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.

Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.

A regulator DOES have power over pricing. The same as if a private company was in charge. The difference is that any IW profits won't go to private shareholders. At least know the basics if you're going on a rant.

This regulator have as much power as a weak fart. A competitive market with private companies is preferable to the farce that is Irish Water. Bonus guaranteed in a monopoly situation. Where's the motivation to be efficient?

[Maguire01]

So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.

Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.

A regulator DOES have power over pricing. The same as if a private company was in charge. The difference is that any IW profits won't go to private shareholders. At least know the basics if you're going on a rant.

This regulator have as much power as a weak fart. A competitive market with private companies is preferable to the farce that is Irish Water. Bonus guaranteed in a monopoly situation. Where's the motivation to be efficient?

The regulator sets the water charges, exactly what you were asking for. So unless you can give some specifics...

But tell us about this competitive market for water. What does it look like? How does it work?

[AZOffaly]

Lads, is this any of ye?

http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU

This is in Baileborough I think. Why have they all Dub accents? The water lad waving at the camera in the middle is class The dive is class. Ah Jaysus, I'm injured. Dirtied his tracksuit mind you.

[Owenmoresider]

Lads, is this any of ye?

http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU

This is in Baileborough I think. Why have they all Dub accents? The water lad waving at the camera in the middle is class The dive is class. Ah Jaysus, I'm injured. Dirtied his tracksuit mind you.

Wouldn't Bailieboro Virginia etc. have had an influx there during the boom years, given the N3 made it easy enough getting back to the smoke? That worker waving is gas. This guy makes a mockery of the protests, in contrast to the scum element on the northside showing off their protest work on YT.

[Rossfan]

Or is a bunch of Jackeen lefties loons going round the country attacking working people doing their jobs?

[Asal Mor]

Lads, is this any of ye?

http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU

This is in Baileborough I think. Why have they all Dub accents? The water lad waving at the camera in the middle is class The dive is class. Ah Jaysus, I'm injured. Dirtied his tracksuit mind you.

Hilarious

[Mayo4Sam]

So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.

Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.

Mike, so you set up water privately, I have too issues.

1. Who supplies rural Ireland, or spends the money on rural infrastructure? It certainly doesn't make economic sense to feed most parts of rural Ireland water. So it would become too expensive for these people. At the moment that connection cost is spread evenly across all water users.

2. And this is the doozy, what would you do with the people who are currently working in Irish Water? These people were TUPEd in from local authorities, they are 100% covered by employment law, you have to pay them to do the job they were contracted to do (so let's not say put them sweeping the streets etc)

Just wondering in magic private sector land how these problems are solved?