The Fine Gael thread

[macdanger2]

You're the only one rabbiting on about a wealth tax!!!

No, you are.

You are the one who keeps mentioning wealth distribution. The only way to do this in Ireland (short of striking oil and actually not giving it away for free) is via a wealth tax.

I am the one talking about a wealth tax??

I see.

You might as well show me where I said that so because I can't seem to recall it.

In fact, I've explicitly clarified that I wasn't talking about a wealth tax on two occasions:

Just so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.

I was not advocating a wealth tax a described by you

so you're either on the WUM or just plain slow - I'll leave you to decide that for yourself

[muppet]

You're the only one rabbiting on about a wealth tax!!!

No, you are.

You are the one who keeps mentioning wealth distribution. The only way to do this in Ireland (short of striking oil and actually not giving it away for free) is via a wealth tax.

I am the one talking about a wealth tax??

I see.

You might as well show me where I said that so because I can't seem to recall it.

In fact, I've explicitly clarified that I wasn't talking about a wealth tax on two occasions:

Just so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.

I was not advocating a wealth tax a described by you

so you're either on the WUM or just plain slow - I'll leave you to decide that for yourself

You said that our tax system is based on 'wealth distribution'.

This is a tax system which has been adjusted to service a €64 Billion Bailout of our crashed banking system and you called it a system based on 'wealth distribution'.

Since we as a state have no collective wealth to distribute, the only possibly way to achieve your 'wealth distribution' would be Wealth Tax. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[Maguire01]

Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

[muppet]

Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

This is what he said: "You now apply your definition to wealth distribution".

[foxcommander]

also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.


Here's that full article.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-so-this-is-our-democracy-at-work-30833924.html

[Maguire01]

also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.

Tell us where you read that.

[macdanger2]

Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

This is what he said: "You now apply your definition to wealth distribution".

Do you actually have a point to make muppet?? It seems to me that you're like a dog with a bone except that you've lost the bone and are now simply chasing your own tail.

I was defining (as I previously said, perhaps incorrectly) "wealth distribution" (not wealth tax as you seem to think) in terms of higher earners paying higher taxes in the following context:

Say in System A you have a person earning 500k who pays 40% income tax and it costs him 150k to live, that leaves him with 150k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

In System B, the same person pays 50% income tax (meaning lower earners pay less tax) - he now has only 100k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

Perhaps it's incorrect to call this concept of increased taxation at the high end "wealth distribution" but that's what I termed it as and this is what I meant. Not wealth tax. Not Robert Mugabe. Nothing else. Only this.

This will be my last post on this.

[muppet]

Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

This is what he said: "You now apply your definition to wealth distribution".

Do you actually have a point to make muppet?? It seems to me that you're like a dog with a bone except that you've lost the bone and are now simply chasing your own tail.

I was defining (as I previously said, perhaps incorrectly) "wealth distribution" (not wealth tax as you seem to think) in terms of higher earners paying higher taxes in the following context:

Say in System A you have a person earning 500k who pays 40% income tax and it costs him 150k to live, that leaves him with 150k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

In System B, the same person pays 50% income tax (meaning lower earners pay less tax) - he now has only 100k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

Perhaps it's incorrect to call this concept of increased taxation at the high end "wealth distribution" but that's what I termed it as and this is what I meant. Not wealth tax. Not Robert Mugabe. Nothing else. Only this.

This will be my last post on this.

You are correct. What you are describing has nothing to do with wealth distribution. It has everything to do with income tax.

[muppet]

Moving the conversation on from the above.......

Here are the tax distribution figures for 2009: http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/statistical/archive/2010/income-distribution-statistics.pdf

Go to page 6.

Over €275,000 earnings, 10,677 (number of tax cases), 0.50 (% of total earners), 6,011.08 (income) 7.33 (% of total) 1,738.05 (tax) 16.37 (% of total).

So in 2009 those earning over €275,000 make up 0.5% of the taxpayers and pay 16.37% of all income taxes.
Those earning over €100,000 make up about 5% of the taxpayers and they pay about 46% of all income taxes.

[foxcommander]

also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.

Tell us where you read that.

I just did. please see link on previous post

also as far as private wells go

"whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2014102100052?opendocument

[gallsman]

also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.

Tell us where you read that.

I just did. please see link on previous post

also as far as private wells go

"whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2014102100052?opendocument

"The "water conservation grant" goes to everyone - even those with private wells and septic tanks. The purpose of this is to get even these people registered. Michael Fitzmaurice TD told the Dail of evidence of a new planning requirement for private wells, "whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

That's what the article says. Nothing about deeming anything property of Irish Water. Spinning shite as usual.

[Maguire01]

also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.

Tell us where you read that.

I just did. please see link on previous post

also as far as private wells go

"whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2014102100052?opendocument

I think you've missed the point here. Read the full quote again:

"Where there is no supply of water from Irish Water and people are boring private wells, a new requirement has been included in their planning permissions by local councils whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area."

Seems clear to me that it's the property that is to connect to the network, not the well.

[lynchbhoy]

So they must connect the property ( who pays? - looks like the householder)
Plus then they are liable to pay water tax.

That's a bad deal given that most well water is less polluted and better than the water scheme these folk have to join!

On the subject of septic tanks - these are to be registered alright!
Why - well the line touted is to ensure they are not leaking effluent etc ( which I think is a good idea  but a bit of a joke considering leaks and effluent disposal throughout the country) but again this registration is to create a tax on sewage tanks.

I'd like to see proper sewage systems in place. The tax will pay for inspections ( hope this isn't exorbitant and is only to cover inspection costs). The folk with private wells should be left alone.

[foxcommander]

Our great president signs up without a whimper

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2014/1228/669307-president-signs-water-services-bill-2014/

Fail to see the point in this role now.

[foxcommander]

and this is why we need water charges

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tribunal-fiasco-politicians-and-developers-will-be-paid-100m-30865794.html