The Fine Gael thread

[deiseach]

I don't think anyone who had been watching the collapse had high expectations of this Govt - how could they have?  The incumbent's hands were tied, their budget income was decimated and they were expected to 'fix' what FF had done, with feck all resources.  And guess what - take a look around you, things are starting to move slowly again, the debt burden is starting to lift again, and those lucky enough to have jobs can see a few extra quid in their pockets.  The unemployment figures are improving slowly, and the builders are starting to build again.  And SF/FF are running scared and stirring shite; what's new?

Seeing as the policy that the government followed was pretty much everything FF set up in the final days of the previous Dáil then I suppose FF should take some of the credit, right? Of course not, not just on a moral basis but because the recovery is so anaemic. GDP is still below 2007 levels, and it's easy to have an improvement when you start from such a low base. As for SF 'running scared', I'd love to think this was the case but it wasn't SF who got absolutely stuffed in the European and local elections.

[Billys Boots]

Seeing as the policy that the government followed was pretty much everything FF set up in the final days of the previous Dáil

Really? - it was my impression that FF was forced to 'set up' what you're describing by the IMF and the incumbents had no choice but to run with it. 

2007 levels of GDP would have been at the peak of the last construction bubble, if I recall correctly - do we really want to go back there?  Is that our baseline for progress comparisons?

I think that at current levels of 'progress' that the govt should be in an ok place when the next elections come around. 

I'm beginning to sound like an FG fan, which I'm not - I think they were handed the shit end of the stick when they won the last election.  I'd like to see them get two terms to put their 'stamp' on a recovering country and I, personally, won't be 'judging' them on this term.

[deiseach]

Seeing as the policy that the government followed was pretty much everything FF set up in the final days of the previous Dáil

Really? - it was my impression that FF was forced to 'set up' what you're describing by the IMF and the incumbents had no choice but to run with it. 

2007 levels of GDP would have been at the peak of the last construction bubble, if I recall correctly - do we really want to go back there?  Is that our baseline for progress comparisons?

I think that at current levels of 'progress' that the govt should be in an ok place when the next elections come around. 

I'm beginning to sound like an FG fan, which I'm not - I think they were handed the shit end of the stick when they won the last election.  I'd like to see them get two terms to put their 'stamp' on a recovering country and I, personally, won't be 'judging' them on this term.

I'd hate to see what an FG fan would be saying if you're not one. Why should we feel sorry for them? No one forced them to run for office. They swept into power with a mandate to change things and delivered more of the same. You can argue that they had no choice, but a) they did; they could have applied their own manifesto, and b) what's the point in having elections at all if we can't give a verdict on their performance in the lifetime of the Dáil? They chose to succumb to a technocratic view of the recovery that has imposed untold misery on millions - that's not an exaggeration - and didn't even work on it's own merits. The government are going to get an absolute kicking come the next election, and they absolutely deserve it, FG for their Victorian view of public policy that views government debt as a moral failing rather than a tool for preventing economic implosion, and Labour for conniving in said policy.

[Billys Boots]

Fine, we'll agree to disagree so. 

[deiseach]

Fine, we'll agree to disagree so.

You're no fun

[Rossfan]

Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

[Mike Sheehy]

..and also elaborate on exactly what you would change policy wise. Give specific details.

[Lar Naparka]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Bejaysus BB, I think you are a bit OTT here.
There were no massive protests when FF were last in government because nobody was expecting the economy to collapse and the speed at which it began to go pear-shaped, threw everyone into confusion.
But there was no mistaking the  electorate's anger when FF lost about two thirds of its seats at the last GE. That was the mother of all "massive protests" without a doubt.
Peoples' expectations were high when the present Coalition came to power. I think everyone knew there would be tough times ahead but very few expected things to be as bad as they are now. If Enda, Eamon and their confidants knew, they took great care to hide the fact.
When it comes to cronyism, jobs for the boys (and girls,) broken promises and the likes all we are getting is a dose of Fianna Fail lite. A little bit better than FF when we were led to expect the highest of standards in public life is just not good enough.
People aren't turning out in droves in this kind of weather for the fun of it.There's an element of principled objection okay but economic desperation is the main reason for the present widespread discontent.
Sure, we're some country okay but it wasn't the honest citizens who took to the streets today who made it so.

Whatever about Labour (who were ambiguous), FG were quite upfront in their manifesto that there would be water charges.
On the issue of political reform, most definitely, the current government has failed massively.

I can agree with both points without any problem.

FG were quite upfront about the introduction of water charges but the way in which they went about introducing them left a lot to be desired, to put it mildly.

It was a classic example of how not to win the hearts and minds of the people and it showed that the government was very much out of touch with reality. I referring here toi ts  initial policy.

As I have said, I believe that we would now have water charges if the government had put the revised proposals to the electorate in the first place. There's a mighty big gap between what they attempted to get and are now happy to accept which now undermines the credibility of the present administration.

I genuinely hope that there won't be an early election, not because I have much confidence in the present incumbent but the result would leave us in an even bigger mess than the one we're in right now.

[deiseach]

Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

[Mike Sheehy]

Ah, the Russell Brand approach.

The system is not perfect for sure but, as a wise man on here once said "perfect is the enemy of good". Opting out is not the solution.

[Rossfan]

Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

Ahhh for fcuk sake......

[deiseach]

Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

Ahhh for fcuk sake......

That hurts, that really does

[Bingo]

[JoG2]

Ah, the Russell Brand approach.

The system is not perfect for sure but, as a wise man on here once said "perfect is the enemy of good". Opting out is not the solution.

maybe the understatement of the century

[deiseach]

Richard Pryor at his most coke-addled . . . I wouldn't vote for him. But I had to give it some thought.