The Fine Gael thread

[muppet]

Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?

[Hardy]

Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?

The devil we don't know.

[Billys Boots]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud. 

[Rossfan]

Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?

Kim Jong Un's army?

[lynchbhoy]

Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?

dont really know of them but if Kathy sinnott is part of them they must be harmless enough yet will voice their opposition to some of the crazy stuff that main political parties did/do

I agree that it is mental that the people are only up in arms now against fg , but the whole ff fiasco went by without much of a protest.

maybe people were stunned and too lazy to do anything then and the culmination of successive bullsiht has them no out on the streets.

I have no faith in any of the politicians as they are all seemingly me feiners.

while people possibly correctly say that we were told that our ordinary taxes included water treatment, road, infastructure, social welfare etc- the problem is that these have all been so badl managed (mismanaged) that extra cash is required.
Meanwhile the issue of mismanagement (public sector) still remains.

[deiseach]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Are you saying we're more forgiving of FF than FG? FG have never had as bad an election result as FF did in the last one, and that's the only place a protest counts.

[Billys Boots]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Are you saying we're more forgiving of FF than FG? FG have never had as bad an election result as FF did in the last one, and that's the only place a protest counts.

I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

[deiseach]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Are you saying we're more forgiving of FF than FG? FG have never had as bad an election result as FF did in the last one, and that's the only place a protest counts.

I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

Um, okay. Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but each to their own.

[armaghniac]

I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

This may be a bit strong, but after such mighty recession it is all a bit depressing. You have all the inane comments on the radio today about people "already paying for water" and when the central bank proposes limiting the amount banks can loan people you have outrage over the injustice of it all, and this after tens of thousands of people borrowed too much!

Meanwhile the issue of mismanagement (public sector) still remains.

This in part remains because nobody bears down on it. Public comment seems unable to distinguish between relatively well managed and badly managed services lumping them all into one general rant. The media doesn't help, one article I read a few months ago about some new civil service office mentioned 3 times that there was "free wifi" in the office, as if this was some sort of outrage and the employees should have to pay to do their work! The proliferation of these risible articles means that real waste isn't really targeted.

[deiseach]

This may be a bit strong, but after such mighty recession it is all a bit depressing. You have all the inane comments on the radio today about people "already paying for water" and when the central bank proposes limiting the amount banks can loan people you have outrage over the injustice of it all, and this after tens of thousands of people borrowed too much!

Can't disagree with that, but there's nothing irrational in the ostensibly disproportionate reactions to FF bringing us to the brink of ruin and FG introducing water charges. The costs of the various bailouts were spread across everyone, they were mostly hidden, they were introduced in a time of extreme turmoil and to the accompaniment of much finger-wagging from the chattering classes that we were All To Blame - not true, but that was the narrative at the time. Wind forward a few years and you have a not-so-stealth tax being introduced just at a time when the burden was meant to be on the way down, a tax on an item with a particular emotion resonance for people - it's water, for chrissake! - and just when the coalition of 2.5 parties that has governed since the year dot and habitually bolstered by the dreaded meeja was going into meltdown.

In short, you may not like the different reactions but there's nothing stupid about it.

[foxcommander]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

[lynchbhoy]

I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

This may be a bit strong, but after such mighty recession it is all a bit depressing. You have all the inane comments on the radio today about people "already paying for water" and when the central bank proposes limiting the amount banks can loan people you have outrage over the injustice of it all, and this after tens of thousands of people borrowed too much!

Meanwhile the issue of mismanagement (public sector) still remains.

This in part remains because nobody bears down on it. Public comment seems unable to distinguish between relatively well managed and badly managed services lumping them all into one general rant. The media doesn't help, one article I read a few months ago about some new civil service office mentioned 3 times that there was "free wifi" in the office, as if this was some sort of outrage and the employees should have to pay to do their work! The proliferation of these risible articles means that real waste isn't really targeted.

on the wifi - dont now the article, but there would be no need for employees in civil service to use wifi when they would and should have wired network.
that would be a bit of a luxury.
wifi for guests/visitors/customers is a different matter.


on the matter of generalising about civil service.
having worked in a couple of agencies and still dealing with many, I was party to the waste of monies by them and the waste in terms of lazy work-to-rule/thats-not-my-job types that are part and parcel of ALL the agencies that I have worked in or have worked with.
Many great people and fantastic workers are being held back by co-workers and the negative atmosphere in many of these placs. its the majority not the minority.
I have said for a long time now- over 10 years, we need a root and branch overhaul of th epublic sector. But as they hold th epower over successive governments, this is unlikely to happen.

waste. waste of taxpayers money is the net result. thus increased taxes to the ordinary joe/joesephine!

[armaghniac]

on the wifi - dont now the article, but there would be no need for employees in civil service to use wifi when they would and should have wired network.
that would be a bit of a luxury.
wifi for guests/visitors/customers is a different matter.

One way or another a couple of wifi routers cost feck all.

on the matter of generalising about civil service.
having worked in a couple of agencies and still dealing with many, I was party to the waste of monies by them and the waste in terms of lazy work-to-rule/thats-not-my-job types that are part and parcel of ALL the agencies that I have worked in or have worked with.
Many great people and fantastic workers are being held back by co-workers and the negative atmosphere in many of these placs. its the majority not the minority.
I have said for a long time now- over 10 years, we need a root and branch overhaul of th epublic sector. But as they hold th epower over successive governments, this is unlikely to happen.

The government has to propose measures of performance, which allow efficiency be measured in some reasonable way, but this type of think is anathema to a politician as if public service performance is measured then so is the politician and politicians can no longer spout off. When measures are introduced they are ignored. Take the recent programme on the ambulance service, there are inefficiencies there, but there are also simply not enough ambulances by any rational measure. Why do the marchers today not require targets and targets that are met?

[Billys Boots]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

Water treated for drinking purposes is not a natural resource. 

If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.

[Rossfan]

Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

Water treated for drinking purposes is not a natural resource. 

If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.

I just do a  when I see a statement like "mismanagement by successive Governments". Maybe Fox might list all the measures ( realistic not airy fairy pie in the Sky nonsense) he'd consider proper management?
As for the Water charge protest - if Higgins, Coppinger, Boyd Barrett, Murphy and Daly are against something then I'm all for it.