The Fine Gael thread

[macdanger2]

Nobody believes the manifestos written anymore, I think that's partly the problem. There are so many lies told by politicians that people thought there was no way they would actually go ahead with charging for water.

FFS fox, we can berate parties and politicians for lying to us and there are plenty of examples of that but it's a bit rich complaining about something they actually did tell us about by saying that was one of the parts we didn't believe them on. People who didn't know this was coming were either too lazy to read up on party policies or even too lazy to vote.

[macdanger2]

The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

Jaysus Lar, you must have known you were winding up for a long post when you couldn't quote the full sentence from the manifesto where it's is anything but unequivocal.

If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.

I'm not sure what recognition you're talking about Lar. We currently pay taxes (5Bn less than would be required to balance the budget) some of which goes to pay for water - at the moment the govt / councils spend enough to keep the system going but not to maintain it properly. Incidentally, this lack of investment wastes money in the long term i.e. increased production costs as a result of lack of investment to prevent leaks. The new water charges (which don't even come close to covering the cost of water) will be used to replace some of that tax money and also to repair leaks. If you're wondering where the tax that's no longer going on water go to - it's being swallowed up by the big hole in the exchequer finances, simple as that.

A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

The original charges were something like that but were then simplified on the back of the protests on the grounds that they were too complicated.

[Lar Naparka]

The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

Jaysus Lar, you must have known you were winding up for a long post when you couldn't quote the full sentence from the manifesto where it's is anything but unequivocal.

If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.

I'm not sure what recognition you're talking about Lar. We currently pay taxes (5Bn less than would be required to balance the budget) some of which goes to pay for water - at the moment the govt / councils spend enough to keep the system going but not to maintain it properly. Incidentally, this lack of investment wastes money in the long term i.e. increased production costs as a result of lack of investment to prevent leaks. The new water charges (which don't even come close to covering the cost of water) will be used to replace some of that tax money and also to repair leaks. If you're wondering where the tax that's no longer going on water go to - it's being swallowed up by the big hole in the exchequer finances, simple as that.

A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

The original charges were something like that but were then simplified on the back of the protests on the grounds that they were too complicated.

I guess I got that spectacularly wrong, Mac and It's fair to say that this wasn't the first time either.
But in this instance I was acting in good faith when I referred to Labour's stance on the water tax issue.
Trouble was that I was relying on a source that turned out to be unreliable.
I was referencing an article in the Sunday Independent written by Gene Kerrigan and this is the excerpt I was interested in.

Another old pro put his shoulder to the wheel on Friday - Labour's Pat Rabbitte, who said setting up Irish Water was "rushed". I think that's what he said - I was reading Labour's 2011 election manifesto at the time, where it says, on Page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges".
I was also remembering Brendan Howlin's remark of February 2011: "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system".

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/were-not-the-wasters-mr-noonan-30710511.html
I saw no reason to doubt his integrity at the time because I didn't expect a columnist in a national paper to publish something that was blatantly untrue and expect to get away with it. AFAIK, nobody took issue with Kerrigan in the interim so I took his word for it and accepted that what he said was true.
Obviously, it wasn't.

[muppet]

The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

Jaysus Lar, you must have known you were winding up for a long post when you couldn't quote the full sentence from the manifesto where it's is anything but unequivocal.

If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.

I'm not sure what recognition you're talking about Lar. We currently pay taxes (5Bn less than would be required to balance the budget) some of which goes to pay for water - at the moment the govt / councils spend enough to keep the system going but not to maintain it properly. Incidentally, this lack of investment wastes money in the long term i.e. increased production costs as a result of lack of investment to prevent leaks. The new water charges (which don't even come close to covering the cost of water) will be used to replace some of that tax money and also to repair leaks. If you're wondering where the tax that's no longer going on water go to - it's being swallowed up by the big hole in the exchequer finances, simple as that.

A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

The original charges were something like that but were then simplified on the back of the protests on the grounds that they were too complicated.

I guess I got that spectacularly wrong, Mac and It's fair to say that this wasn't the first time either.
But in this instance I was acting in good faith when I referred to Labour's stance on the water tax issue.
Trouble was that I was relying on a source that turned out to be unreliable.
I was referencing an article in the Sunday Independent written by Gene Kerrigan and this is the excerpt I was interested in.

Another old pro put his shoulder to the wheel on Friday - Labour's Pat Rabbitte, who said setting up Irish Water was "rushed". I think that's what he said - I was reading Labour's 2011 election manifesto at the time, where it says, on Page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges".
I was also remembering Brendan Howlin's remark of February 2011: "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system".

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/were-not-the-wasters-mr-noonan-30710511.html
I saw no reason to doubt his integrity at the time because I didn't expect a columnist in a national paper to publish something that was blatantly untrue and expect to get away with it. AFAIK, nobody took issue with Kerrigan in the interim so I took his word for it and accepted that what he said was true.
Obviously, it wasn't.

Well it was the Sindo after all.

[lawnseed]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

[muppet]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

No doubt this is a highlight of your year.

[Owenmoresider]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

Such brave and courageous patriots they are.

[Rossfan]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

Such brave and courageous patriots they are.

The loony extremists seem to have totally taken over the Water Charges opposition. A gang of them also had a go at Enda in a pub in Ros Town Friday night. A ranting spokeswoman for them was on Shannonside this morning and said their behaviour is OK.

[lawnseed]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

Such brave and courageous patriots they are.

I think you'll discover that they are voters. Something gimp kenny is going to find out soon enough

[Rossfan]

The type of loony left clowns those extremists will vote for have nothing to offer except maybe North Korea.

[Maguire01]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

Such brave and courageous patriots they are.

I think you'll discover that they are voters. Something gimp kenny is going to find out soon enough

I'd say there's a fair chance they're not voters at all. There's an even higher likelihood that they've never voted for FG.

[Lar Naparka]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

Such brave and courageous patriots they are.

The loony extremists seem to have totally taken over the Water Charges opposition. A gang of them also had a go at Enda in a pub in Ros Town Friday night. A ranting spokeswoman for them was on Shannonside this morning and said their behaviour is OK.

I have no time for these laitchekoes either but WTF was Enda doing in a pub (or anywhere else) in Ros town?
He could hardly expect a rousing reception after breaking his promise to keep the A&E department open in the local hospital before the last GE..

[muppet]

Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet

Such brave and courageous patriots they are.

I think you'll discover that they are voters. Something gimp kenny is going to find out soon enough

The irony is that they are voters only because they are not in power. If they are PUT IN, I see them little chance of ever voting them out.

[foxcommander]

I have no time for these laitchekoes either but WTF was Enda doing in a pub (or anywhere else) in Ros town?
He could hardly expect a rousing reception after breaking his promise to keep the A&E department open in the local hospital before the last GE..

It just shows how detached he is from reality and how arrogant he is.
Maybe the FG brains trust (!?!) are sending him there purposely to elicit sympathy from the public when he does get some abuse thrown at him. They'll do anything to take the sting from Irish Water and create new headlines, just like Burton did.
I wonder will she qualify for disability allowance from the water balloon incident? Better still did she go to A+E to get it checked out?

[foxcommander]

Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/